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Wings Saving Capspace for reason


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#1 Andy Pred 48

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Posted 02 January 2008 - 12:59 AM

I know our team looks settled and I have no complaints with the way we have
performed to date. In fact I would say the majority on here are pleasantly surprised
that at almost the half way stage we sit atop of the table some 7pts clear. I have
got to say that with us some $5m+ under the cap, I can't help but think that this
was put aside to maybe pull off a big trade or 2 come the deadline. Now I know we
have discussed this issue briefly elsewhere and Holland has stated that we maybe
will go after a second line forward and a depth blueliner. We could maybe pick 2
guys up on that front for $3-3.5m. Now I can't see us wanting to give up more than
maybe a low draft pick and a fringe squad player, Meech, Hartigan possably Ellis we'd
let go. This would still leave us with some $2m+ to play with. I think we are going to go
after one of the higher caliber guys out there and I think we may be shocked as to who
we get in, I haven't got any inside info its just a feeling/hunch I've got. I just don't buy
into the theory that we won't use are available cap. Now as to who we could pick up or
we think would fit in, depends on who is out of the race. At this moment in time there are
too many teams still in with a shout, but Tampa and LA are going to struggle so who have
they got we could afford or would want? I can't wait for the deadline to find out but the
options could be higher than we may think.
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#2 RedStormRising

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Posted 02 January 2008 - 01:23 AM

When is the deadline?

#3 Rice

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Posted 02 January 2008 - 01:25 AM

QUOTE (RedStormRising @ January 2, 2008 - 01:23AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
When is the deadline?

I'm pretty sure it's February 27th this year.
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#4 Wings_and_ Alba

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Posted 02 January 2008 - 02:16 AM

How else is Lilja gonna get paid?.........

Seriously, I wouldn't mind if the Wings pick up someone big, with an immediate impact.


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#5 shannyfan1414

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Posted 02 January 2008 - 02:46 AM

QUOTE (RedStormRising @ January 2, 2008 - 01:23AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
When is the deadline?


The trade deadline is Feb. 26 at 3pm this year.

I can't see us making any moves this year.

I guess unless there is some kind of major injury at some point. Other then that i think that we have a solid team that can perform well in the playoffs.

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#6 Grittzkey

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Posted 02 January 2008 - 06:12 AM

I doubt it.

I can see us dumping Sammy, for a 4th line grinder and a draft selection to a team from the east and,Lilja is staying, The Chemistry and the lack of depth on our D. We cant afford to dink around with the core of it..

Blockbuster trade? i sure hope not.
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#7 glasgowcelticwing

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Posted 02 January 2008 - 06:30 AM

I can see the Wings making a couple of trades but i think they're working well under budget so that when the time come's they'll have the money to give Zetts the salary hike he's going to comand. anyway nothing much wrong the way the team's doing right now. If this is indeed what Kenny is doing then it's a shrude move . it saves us from having so much problem's later on that so many team's will have.
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#8 BeeRYCE

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Posted 02 January 2008 - 06:54 AM

Our main priority from here on out is accomodating Zetterberg.

If any blockbuster move means affecting our profits drastically, then it's not going to happen. Second line forwards you ask? I believe Filppula and Hudler have been playing that role quite nicely.

#9 akustyk

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Posted 02 January 2008 - 06:59 AM

I'm afraid money cushin won't help us a lot unless we fish for some overpaid guy from waivers
which is obviously no sexiest option sad.gif

most trades will be done for draft picks which seem to be the crucial trade ware in the NHL
nowadays. for me it seems like the rule now is basically: flush your depth and go for the cup now.
since we don't have too much depth (we are the buyers here) we can't realistically expect
to land a top-tier player in the middle of the season. they'll be too expensive for Wings assets.

I can see us landing some Calder type player and that would be it. but I obviously wouldn't mind
to see Kenny doing some great shopping and bringing some great player

#10 barnettkid14

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Posted 02 January 2008 - 07:13 AM

Hey guys don't mean to burst the bubble but that money isn't for a blockbuster trade at the deadline. Take a look at the stats Zetts and Ozzy are putting up with their current salaries. Ozzie is going to want a raise, and if Zetts settles for any less then $5 mill I'll be surprised. If they were to sign somebody for the remainder of the season that would be fine but they need that space for next season. Lidstrom took a pay cut for the team, he's a true leader.. let's hope Zetts will do the same because if he tests the free agent market next season he will be able to get a big increase in salary. (assuming his second half of the season is as good as the first half.)

#11 akustyk

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Posted 02 January 2008 - 07:33 AM

QUOTE (barnettkid14 @ January 2, 2008 - 01:13PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If they were to sign somebody for the remainder of the season that would be fine but they need that space for next season.

there is a second option here called: rental player. but there's 2 factors against this option in Wings case: 1. Holland won't shop for players he doesn't see in Wings roster for longer time, and 2. rental players cost draft picks, unless they're a dump like Samsonov. in both cases Holland will not and/or should not be interested in such guys.

truth being said, I'm pretty sure Holland will use any spare money to improve Wings or even Griffs. but there's no doubt Hank is No. 1 priority and his $7M+ deal for 2008/09-... is as good as done now.

Edited by akustyk, 02 January 2008 - 07:34 AM.


#12 NeverForgetMac25

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Posted 02 January 2008 - 09:04 AM

QUOTE (shannyfan1414 @ January 2, 2008 - 01:46AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The trade deadline is Feb. 26 at 3pm this year.

I can't see us making any moves this year.

I guess unless there is some kind of major injury at some point. Other then that i think that we have a solid team that can perform well in the playoffs.

Ack.....this is the type of thinking that gets teams in trouble. They look at the standings and think, "Oh the Wings are the playing the best hockey in the league, they don't need anything". The truth of the matter is the Wings lost two top-4 Dmen *after* the trade deadline last year, and it ended up being too much to overcome. Regardless of injury or not *before* the deadline the Wings should (and IMO will) pick up depth at both forward and D just to ensure you've got a padded roster. There's no reason whatsoever to let $5 million in cap space to go to waste.
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#13 NeverForgetMac25

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Posted 02 January 2008 - 09:08 AM

QUOTE (barnettkid14 @ January 2, 2008 - 06:13AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hey guys don't mean to burst the bubble but that money isn't for a blockbuster trade at the deadline. Take a look at the stats Zetts and Ozzy are putting up with their current salaries. Ozzie is going to want a raise, and if Zetts settles for any less then $5 mill I'll be surprised. If they were to sign somebody for the remainder of the season that would be fine but they need that space for next season. Lidstrom took a pay cut for the team, he's a true leader.. let's hope Zetts will do the same because if he tests the free agent market next season he will be able to get a big increase in salary. (assuming his second half of the season is as good as the first half.)

Zetts won't make less than $7 million, IMO. He might take $6.5 at minimum due to injury concerns and a long-term deal, but at this point I feel his salary will exceed Dats'.
It's amazing how much clarity comes when you care more about the Red Wings than any individual player.


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#14 thedisappearer

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Posted 02 January 2008 - 09:10 AM

QUOTE (Never Forget Mac #25 @ January 2, 2008 - 08:04AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
There's no reason whatsoever to let $5 million in cap space to go to waste.

There's one I can think of. To get something worth any money, we'd have to give up something we may not want to (draft pick and/or prospect). If it's just a rental, that may be too much to Ken to pay. If the rental is sticking around next year and longer, then the salary may be too much if Zetterberg gets the raise he deserves and we have to resign other players already on the roster. That $5mil is pretty much Z's raise. (I know the cap is going up, but other people will get raises, too)

Still, I have to imagine we'll add some depth. I just don't see anything big happening.
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#15 interminded

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Posted 02 January 2008 - 09:11 AM

QUOTE (barnettkid14 @ January 2, 2008 - 07:13AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hey guys don't mean to burst the bubble but that money isn't for a blockbuster trade at the deadline. Take a look at the stats Zetts and Ozzy are putting up with their current salaries. Ozzie is going to want a raise, and if Zetts settles for any less then $5 mill I'll be surprised. If they were to sign somebody for the remainder of the season that would be fine but they need that space for next season. Lidstrom took a pay cut for the team, he's a true leader.. let's hope Zetts will do the same because if he tests the free agent market next season he will be able to get a big increase in salary. (assuming his second half of the season is as good as the first half.)



Ozzie is going to want a raise, but I think it won't be more than 1.1 / 1.2 a season.
He's not about the money... thank god..

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#16 NeverForgetMac25

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Posted 02 January 2008 - 09:59 AM

QUOTE (thedisappearer @ January 2, 2008 - 08:10AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
There's one I can think of. To get something worth any money, we'd have to give up something we may not want to (draft pick and/or prospect). If it's just a rental, that may be too much to Ken to pay. If the rental is sticking around next year and longer, then the salary may be too much if Zetterberg gets the raise he deserves and we have to resign other players already on the roster. That $5mil is pretty much Z's raise. (I know the cap is going up, but other people will get raises, too)

Still, I have to imagine we'll add some depth. I just don't see anything big happening.

Never once did I talk about jeopardizing the Wings future. My point is valid, given that it doesn't affect Z's raise. Keep in mind that Z is still under contract next season, and even if Holland picks up a player or two that have contracts through next season, it still won't affect Z's raise. It's pretty rare that teams move players that are still under contract the following season, and practically never does a team move a guy that's signed for more than season beyond the next one.

There isn't a team in the league that doesn't generally take chances by moving certain picks/prospects to get the team what they feel they need to get over the hump, and the Wings are no different. Where the Wings are better than most is in their brass. Kenny is a genius when it comes to getting the most in return while giving up little.

I've been saying for a long time that the Wings can't just throw away picks now that the league is salary capped, but that absolutely doesn't mean the Wings should stand firm with what they've got simply because they're on top. You need to have depth in the playoffs, and losing a pick and a prospect or two with the odds looking the way they are for the Wings this season wouldn't be a bad idea at all.
It's amazing how much clarity comes when you care more about the Red Wings than any individual player.


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#17 Matt

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Posted 02 January 2008 - 10:05 AM

They don't have $5-million in cap space with the expectation of making a big deal -- it was a byproduct of not being able to find players during the summer that were a good fit (both in player type and salary).

Personally, I'd shocked if the Wings don't make a move or two to bolster this lineup.

The same people saying that are saying "Filppula and Hudler are doing quite well, thank you" will be the same ones lamenting the fact that the Red Wings had $5 million sitting at there at the deadline and it didn't get used after the team is eliminated by either 1) no 2nd line support or 2) no depth.

#18 Wings_Dynasty

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Posted 02 January 2008 - 10:12 AM

QUOTE (Matt @ January 2, 2008 - 10:05AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
They don't have $5-million in cap space with the expectation of making a big deal -- it was a byproduct of not being able to find players during the summer that were a good fit (both in player type and salary).

Personally, I'd shocked if the Wings don't make a move or two to bolster this lineup.

The same people saying that are saying "Filppula and Hudler are doing quite well, thank you" will be the same ones lamenting the fact that the Red Wings had $5 million sitting at there at the deadline and it didn't get used.

I am one of the people who think Flip and Rex are doing well. But, at the same time, they are not the best options for a Cup. They are expendable.

At the same time, I don't want them thrown into a deal on a whim, we need a return on the investment. I don't want to trade away Flip or Rex for a rental player that will be here for the rest of the season and the post and be in Anaheim next year. To get a player like Chelios or Shanahan is what we all want, someone who will contribute for years to come, like Flip and Rex would if they are not traded away; but the temptation of a Bertuzzi or a Wendel Clark is strong to some. I want skill and time, not skill alone.

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#19 thedisappearer

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Posted 02 January 2008 - 10:49 AM

QUOTE (Never Forget Mac #25 @ January 2, 2008 - 08:59AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Never once did I talk about jeopardizing the Wings future. My point is valid, given that it doesn't affect Z's raise. Keep in mind that Z is still under contract next season, and even if Holland picks up a player or two that have contracts through next season, it still won't affect Z's raise. It's pretty rare that teams move players that are still under contract the following season, and practically never does a team move a guy that's signed for more than season beyond the next one.

I've been saying for a long time that the Wings can't just throw away picks now that the league is salary capped, but that absolutely doesn't mean the Wings should stand firm with what they've got simply because they're on top. You need to have depth in the playoffs, and losing a pick and a prospect or two with the odds looking the way they are for the Wings this season wouldn't be a bad idea at all.

I wasn't accusing you specifically of anything. All I was trying to convey was that the price may be too high and just because we have cap space does not means A: we have to use, and B: it's in our best interest to use it.

I understand the type of contracts players who get moved at the deadline tend to have. I have seen the Wings blow prospects and draft picks for guys who had no impact and bolted the next off-season for years now. I also understand risk/reward quite well. I get the theory. I just fear the price will be too high with little or no return, and I am tired of people thinking we NEED to spend the cap max to win a Cup.

As I have said, I would like to acquire depth. You acn usually get that relatively cheaply. But as the sub-title of this thread indicates, we are talking BLOCKBUSTER deals. Bad idea, my friend, baaaaadddddddd idea.



QUOTE (Never Forget Mac #25 @ January 2, 2008 - 08:59AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Kenny is a genius when it comes to getting the most in return while giving up little.


Agreed.
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#20 Opie

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Posted 02 January 2008 - 10:50 AM

QUOTE (Wings_Dynasty @ January 2, 2008 - 03:12PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I am one of the people who think Flip and Rex are doing well. But, at the same time, they are not the best options for a Cup. They are expendable.

At the same time, I don't want them thrown into a deal on a whim, we need a return on the investment. I don't want to trade away Flip or Rex for a rental player that will be here for the rest of the season and the post and be in Anaheim next year. To get a player like Chelios or Shanahan is what we all want, someone who will contribute for years to come, like Flip and Rex would if they are not traded away; but the temptation of a Bertuzzi or a Wendel Clark is strong to some. I want skill and time, not skill alone.

IMHO:
Flip and Huds are expendable if you are either:
A) only considering this year.
B) don't have a salary cap.
** Note: Remember if you claim to be in the "I don't care about next year I just want a cup" crowd, if they win this year you can not say the same thing next year, you got your way. It is like selling you soul to the devil for a pizza, once the pizza is gone you can't get your soul back!**

In the salary cap ere there is nothing more valuable than young talent. Expendable players right now would include:
Sammy (as long as a top forward is coming in return)
Downey
Drake
Maltby (injury makes this nearly impossible)
Kopecky
Ellis
Hartigan
Lilja (As long as a top 4 d-man is coming in return)
Lebda (As long as a top 4 d-man is coming in return)
J-HO (as much as it pains me to say it, if a legit young #1, ie. Ryan Miller, netminder were available the wings would have to do it!)
The prospects on D are a little bit more expendable now that Lids and Ralf will be here for at least two more years, as long as one or two are kept for injury's sake.
Forward prospects are a little harder, if they need to be thrown in to get a legit top 6 forward that the team has the opportunity to sign long term, i.e. not Lecavelier, Hossa, Sundin, then I am all for that.
Trading Sammy for a 4th liner and a pick would destroy the chemistry of this team and leave them with a huge void that he is actually filling right now. Granted he is not putting up top 6 numbers, but he is doing it well enough that this team is in first place. If he is going to be traded the team will have to have a pp point (looks like Lebda may in training for this one), and a top 6 forward (again not that he is that is the role he fills.) otherwise trading him leaves a pretty big hole.

I believe this team is one maybe two moves away from assuring the cup, but also one move away from sinking the team. The wings have to be careful not to move laterally, for instances the Ryder trade. A move that will hurt chemistry and at the same time not make the team any better. Not really knowing who is up for trade right now I can not say specifically whom they should persue.
But a guy like Brad Boyes, I know, I know there is no way in Hell a division foe gives up one of their best players, I am just saying that type of player would be nice. I will have to look into who is available before I say one way or the other.

**another note, if a player was available that was of Thornton (one name I picked not stuck to this name just and example) situation, a top 25 player in the league under a long contract that is a steal of a deal, then the only non expendable assests are Z-D-H, Lids, Ralf, Osgood (he will be needed drastically in the getting J-Ho ready for the big time project).**

Edited by Opie, 02 January 2008 - 10:54 AM.

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