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Jordin Tootoo


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#141 55fan

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 08:04 AM

Thanks for the trip down memory lane.  I had to go back and see if I voiced my opinion.  Too bad I didn't.  I could now be doing the "neener neener neener toldyaso toldyaso toldyaso neener neener neener" chant.

 

That said, I have respect for those who will change their opinions when taking into consideration new evidence, and also for those who will stick to their guns as long as they're willing to consider new evidence.

 

It's a matter of liking or not liking.  Opinions are like noses:  Everyone has one, but you can only pick your own.

 

My opinion?  I like Tootoo.



#142 Euro_Twins

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 01:38 PM

Thanks for the trip down memory lane.  I had to go back and see if I voiced my opinion.  Too bad I didn't.  I could now be doing the "neener neener neener toldyaso toldyaso toldyaso neener neener neener" chant.

 

That said, I have respect for those who will change their opinions when taking into consideration new evidence, and also for those who will stick to their guns as long as they're willing to consider new evidence.

 

It's a matter of liking or not liking.  Opinions are like noses:  Everyone has one, but you can only pick your own.

 

My opinion?  I like Tootoo.

 

Ya, I tried picking someone elses nose once, didn't work out so well :P I hated Tootoo on Nashville, mostly because he was doing his job, agitating lol. I loved the signing immediately though



#143 Red Crazy

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 02:05 PM

Like him or hate him the Wings needed a player like him on this team. If he chips in a few points, keeps the flies off, and rattles the teeth of some d-men on the fore check then what more do you want.



#144 akustyk

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 05:32 PM

It's all funny now, and it just goes to show that no matter how much a player is hated from another team, there is a reason he is hated, he is good and he drives you nuts how good he plays against you.  Pronger, Lemieux, Backes....I have a feeling that they would/would've had the same effect on the same fans that said "not now, not ever" to Tootoo...

 

yep, but back then in 2008 Tootoo was IMHO worse player than he is now. back then he was more about dirty tricks and being pure pest and I myself didn't like the idea of him on the Wings team.

 

he made progress later in his career and as of 2012 I liked the idea of Wings shopping for him. his performance in 2012 playoffs was very convincing to me. not just dirtbag and pest but also a player with tremendous energy and a true inspiration to give their best for other players. he was IMHO Nashville's top player in that round. this Tootoo, I gladly welcome. not the 2008 version.

 

Pronger, Lemieux - I don't think there ever was discussion about their skills. that's pretty different than Tootoo here..


Edited by akustyk, 14 February 2013 - 05:32 PM.


#145 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 05:40 PM

yep, but back then in 2008 Tootoo was IMHO worse player than he is now. back then he was more about dirty tricks and being pure pest and I myself didn't like the idea of him on the Wings team.

 

he made progress later in his career and as of 2012 I liked the idea of Wings shopping for him. his performance in 2012 playoffs was very convincing to me. not just dirtbag and pest but also a player with tremendous energy and a true inspiration to give their best for other players. he was IMHO Nashville's top player in that round. this Tootoo, I gladly welcome. not the 2008 version.

 

Pronger, Lemieux - I don't think there ever was discussion about their skills. that's pretty different than Tootoo here..

 

Are you sure you're thinking of the 2012 playoffs?  Tootoo only played three games.  the rest of the time he was a healthy scratch. 

 

My opinion is more or less the same.  Good on him for no cheapshots so far this year.  And it's nice to have a guy who drops the gloves.  Though it's mostly been staged fights, which doesn't mean a lot to me. 

 

I still think he's a defensive liability and at $1.9 mill he's overpaid for his 8 minutes a night.  If he earns more ice time, keeps hitting guys without cheapshots, and sticks up for his teammates, I could come around on him. 



#146 StormJH1

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 04:23 PM

I came out hard against Tootoo at several points during the offseason and lockout, and a lot of people disagreed with me.  I don't think much has happened since the season started that could be used to justify his $1.9 million AAC.  On the other hand, when he's actually been on the ice and playing hockey, it's not like his play has been terrible enough that I can point to that and go: "See!! I won the argument!".

 

I still think his game is a joke.  The Wings have acquired PLENTY of players that I hated as opponents, but quickly respected once they became Wings.  Chelios, Brett Hull, and Bertuzzi come to mind.  But there's the key difference there - those guys were all skilled hockey players, not one-dimensional cheap shot artists and agitators.  I would argue that the Wings haven't employed trash like this since the days of Sean Avery.  (A note on that: Avery in the early days was a total a-hole, but this was before "sloppy seconds", fashion internships, and waving the stick in front of goaltender's faces - he was actually a somewhat popular player at the time, but management saw what was coming with him and moved him before he ever had the chance to embarass us).

 

The big picture here is that we gave a 3-year deal and borderline Top 6 forward money to a guy whose only marketable "skill appears" to be an odious reputation.  In other words, any garbage AHL'er making $750,000 a year could just decide tomorrow that they wanted to act like Jordin Tootoo, and they'd have that same reputation within a year or two.  He's lucky if he plays 8 minutes a game on the 4th line.  And I'm sorry, but you can't be considered an "enforcer" when you're 5'9" and pretty much every known "enforcer" around the league is about two weight classes above you.  He scares nobody, but annoys everyone, and therefore, does nothing to enhance the effectiveness of the team, while tarnishing the Red Wings brand.

 

I've said this time and time again, but the idea that you can improve team toughness by throwing guys on the 4th line who do nothing but fight (or cheap shot) is absurd.  "Toughness" is having power forwards like Shanahan, Holmstrom, or Franzen that do the dirty work to keep the puck.  It's having skilled forwards like Zetterberg and Datsyuk are aren't huge players, but are willing to throw a shoulder into you in the corner.  And it's about having defensemen who stick up for their goaltender and move guys physically when they have to, rather than running guys behind the play and getting caught out of position.

 

I'm not going keep hating on Tootoo for the duration of his contract because Babcock's use of him shows that he already agrees with me.  In terms of playing time and doing things that actually impact the scoreboard, he's already less important than guys like Tatar, Andersson, and Emmerton.  He just happens to make more than those guys.



#147 akustyk

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 04:28 PM

Are you sure you're thinking of the 2012 playoffs?  Tootoo only played three games.  the rest of the time he was a healthy scratch. 

 

My opinion is more or less the same.  Good on him for no cheapshots so far this year.  And it's nice to have a guy who drops the gloves.  Though it's mostly been staged fights, which doesn't mean a lot to me. 

 

I still think he's a defensive liability and at $1.9 mill he's overpaid for his 8 minutes a night.  If he earns more ice time, keeps hitting guys without cheapshots, and sticks up for his teammates, I could come around on him. 

 

thing get hazy when you reach certain age... ;) but, yes, it had to be 2012 as what I recall is him being big factor against the Wings... and 2008 seems a bit too far away in the past...

 

as for the opinion on him right now... we'll see. he's been OK so far. if Wings advance to the playoffs and Tootoo brings the same energy and inspiration I remember - it'll be a great deal for Holland.



#148 Holmstrom96

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 06:47 PM

My only concern with Tootoo was whether or not people would get all those damn whistles.  Thankfully this hasn't happened in Detroit.

 

This lead to a funny conversation with my dad at a recent Wings game.

 

Dad:  Is that Tootoo guy playing tonight?

Me:  Yes.

Dad:  Cool, what's his number?

Me:  ......Two-two.....

Dad:  Huh?

Me:  .....twenty-two.....



#149 Dominator2005

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 07:19 PM

What about Sammy? Francine? Kronwall? Quincey?


If Tootoo was our worst player I would be more than happy. We are not loosing because of him... at least he's showing some passion and balls...
"Some guys dream about scoring goals, or making big saves... I swear to God I dream about kicking ass in a hockey fight - no other way to say it than I love to do it, its who I am"... Brian McGrattan

#150 marcaractac

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 07:32 PM

thing get hazy when you reach certain age... ;) but, yes, it had to be 2012 as what I recall is him being big factor against the Wings... and 2008 seems a bit too far away in the past...

 

as for the opinion on him right now... we'll see. he's been OK so far. if Wings advance to the playoffs and Tootoo brings the same energy and inspiration I remember - it'll be a great deal for Holland.

it was def 2008 when he was a pain in the wings ass. i vividly remember hating his guts for scoring on us in that series



#151 newfy

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 01:34 PM

Hey StormJH1.... are you living 5 years in the past when he had that reputation or are we talking about the same Tootoo that outscored everyone in the wings bottom 6 last year?

 

He put up more points than anyone in the wings bottom 6 last year, is arguably the hardest hitting forward in the league and one of the top middleweight fighters. Care to explain how any AHLer could come in and replace what he provides because it sounds more to me like you dont know what youre talking about


RIP BOB PROBERT #24


#152 Euro_Twins

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 01:50 PM

Hey StormJH1.... are you living 5 years in the past when he had that reputation or are we talking about the same Tootoo that outscored everyone in the wings bottom 6 last year?

 

He put up more points than anyone in the wings bottom 6 last year, is arguably the hardest hitting forward in the league and one of the top middleweight fighters. Care to explain how any AHLer could come in and replace what he provides because it sounds more to me like you dont know what youre talking about

 

he didn't outscore Cleary



#153 Nev

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 03:33 PM

Wondering if we'll see him drop the gloves tonight - team is on a losing skid, he's not fought for a few games, he might feel the need to provide a spark.


"If I can be totally honest, it's not a lot of guys you get impressed by. Actually, it's no one else but him. From the bench, to see what move he makes -- you're like, 'I wish I could do that.' Sometimes you sit on the bench and just think, 'wow,' and you look over to the other bench and they sit there and shake their heads, too. He has great, great skills. I'm probably not going to play with another player who has the kind of skills he has." Mikael Samuelsson on Pavel Datsyuk

#154 Johnz96

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 03:35 PM

Wondering if we'll see him drop the gloves tonight - team is on a losing skid, he's not fought for a few games, he might feel the need to provide a spark.

Weber?



#155 MidMichSteve

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 03:40 PM

Weber?

 

Wow! Wouldn't THAT be something! :)


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#156 WorkingOvertime

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 03:42 PM

Weber?

If he does drop them tonight, it will likely be with Clune unless someone else steps over the line.



#157 PredsFanTheBayouState

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 04:38 PM

Weber?

If Tootoo does drop the gloves it will probally be against clune



#158 StormJH1

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 04:59 PM

Hey StormJH1.... are you living 5 years in the past when he had that reputation or are we talking about the same Tootoo that outscored everyone in the wings bottom 6 last year?

 

He put up more points than anyone in the wings bottom 6 last year, is arguably the hardest hitting forward in the league and one of the top middleweight fighters. Care to explain how any AHLer could come in and replace what he provides because it sounds more to me like you dont know what youre talking about

Wow.  So much to take in there.  If you really think Tootoo is the "hardest hitting forward in the league", or "one of the top middleweight" fighters, I need you to take an elementary physics class and then maybe we can talk.  I suppose you also think that Cal Clutterbuck is an "elite power forward" because he leads the league in "hits" every year.  

 

A "hit" is supposed to be scored as initiating physical contact that dislodges the puck from the puck carrier.  Guys like Tootoo and Clutterbuck throw themselves around and look good on TV to fans raised on "Slap Shot", but running guys behind the play is gratuitous and really pretty irrelevant to the scoreboard.  Yes, it makes the fans in the arena go "ooh" and "ahh", the same way people gasp when a runaway car drives through a farmer's market. 

 

Tootoo had 6 goals in 77 games last year and was a HEALTHY SCRATCH in the Playoffs.  Prior to last season, he never had more than TWELVE assists in an NHL season.  Go look at the list of guys that had more goals than him from the 2011-12, and that $1.9 million AAC starts to make you feel sick a little.  We didn't need THIS guy to have a tough hockey team.  Pre-staged fights by a guy who was brought in to be a circus act to improve team morale, and he isn't even in the right "weight class" to fight anyone of significance.

 

I can't argue with people about "my hockey knowledge" when the person telling me I'm an idiot would rather watch fighting and general douchebaggery than the actual sport of hockey.


Edited by StormJH1, 19 February 2013 - 05:01 PM.


#159 HelmFan

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 05:12 PM

Wow.  So much to take in there.  If you really think Tootoo is the "hardest hitting forward in the league", or "one of the top middleweight" fighters, I need you to take an elementary physics class and then maybe we can talk.  I suppose you also think that Cal Clutterbuck is an "elite power forward" because he leads the league in "hits" every year.  

 

A "hit" is supposed to be scored as initiating physical contact that dislodges the puck from the puck carrier.  Guys like Tootoo and Clutterbuck throw themselves around and look good on TV to fans raised on "Slap Shot", but running guys behind the play is gratuitous and really pretty irrelevant to the scoreboard.  Yes, it makes the fans in the arena go "ooh" and "ahh", the same way people gasp when a runaway car drives through a farmer's market. 

 

Tootoo had 6 goals in 77 games last year and was a HEALTHY SCRATCH in the Playoffs.  Prior to last season, he never had more than TWELVE assists in an NHL season.  Go look at the list of guys that had more goals than him from the 2011-12, and that $1.9 million AAC starts to make you feel sick a little.  We didn't need THIS guy to have a tough hockey team.  Pre-staged fights by a guy who was brought in to be a circus act to improve team morale, and he isn't even in the right "weight class" to fight anyone of significance.

 

I can't argue with people about "my hockey knowledge" when the person telling me I'm an idiot would rather watch fighting and general douchebaggery than the actual sport of hockey.

 

I agree with your stance on Tootoo. Everything you said, I'll second. I can't believe he gets 1.9million a year.

 

 I especially agree with the part in bold. Tootoo gets most of his hits seconds after the guy has already got rid of the puck.  And they are almost never the heavy,"bone rattling" type.



#160 FlashyG

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 05:57 PM

If Tootoo does drop the gloves it will probally be against clune

 

Clune is wearing a shield to cover up stitches he got recently, he won't be fighting anyone any time soon

 

Wow.  So much to take in there.  If you really think Tootoo is the "hardest hitting forward in the league", or "one of the top middleweight" fighters, I need you to take an elementary physics class and then maybe we can talk.  I suppose you also think that Cal Clutterbuck is an "elite power forward" because he leads the league in "hits" every year.  

 

A "hit" is supposed to be scored as initiating physical contact that dislodges the puck from the puck carrier.  Guys like Tootoo and Clutterbuck throw themselves around and look good on TV to fans raised on "Slap Shot", but running guys behind the play is gratuitous and really pretty irrelevant to the scoreboard.  Yes, it makes the fans in the arena go "ooh" and "ahh", the same way people gasp when a runaway car drives through a farmer's market. 

 

Tootoo had 6 goals in 77 games last year and was a HEALTHY SCRATCH in the Playoffs.  Prior to last season, he never had more than TWELVE assists in an NHL season.  Go look at the list of guys that had more goals than him from the 2011-12, and that $1.9 million AAC starts to make you feel sick a little.  We didn't need THIS guy to have a tough hockey team.  Pre-staged fights by a guy who was brought in to be a circus act to improve team morale, and he isn't even in the right "weight class" to fight anyone of significance.

 

I can't argue with people about "my hockey knowledge" when the person telling me I'm an idiot would rather watch fighting and general douchebaggery than the actual sport of hockey.

 

 

He didn't say Tootoo is the most frequent hitter or the best hitter he said he was one of the "hardest hitters". Tootoo absolutely fits that description, in one of the most recent player polls he was voted by the players as the 2nd hardest hitter in the league behind only Chara. Tootoo was the best signing the team made in the offseason and IMO he's been the best player in our bottom 6 so far as well.

 

The hit itself doesn't have to create the turnover. if in anticipation of the hit, a player makes a rushed inaccurate pass ending in a turnover the result is the same as if the hit caused the turnover..

 

Tootoo causes defenders to make plays far quicker than they want to, and is easily our best fore-checker. You may not like physical hockey but don't deny its effectiveness...just look at what almost every team does to the Wings defence.







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