NHL GM's Declare War on Goalies

[Hank 0]

http://www.thestar.com/Sports/article/305184

Feb 20, 2008 04:30 AM Damien Cox

NAPLES, Fla.

Ken Holland, as a former goaltender once drafted by the Maple Leafs, has some sympathy for the masked men. But for the Detroit Red Wings general manager, it's become an either-or proposition. The goalies must shrink in size. Or they'll have a lot more twine to protect.

"We gotta shrink the goalies," said Holland yesterday. "If we can't get it right this time, then I'm prepared to sit down and look at alternatives. And bigger nets is certainly one alternative."

Maybe it was because of the lack of trade activity, other than a deal that sent well-travelled blueliner Jaroslav Modry from L.A. to Philly and wild rumours that linked Mats Sundin to a half-dozen teams or more, but a strong consensus emerged from the NHL general managers meeting that goaltending equipment is out of control.

"We've been talking about it for 10 years," said Dallas co-GM Brett Hull. "The whole kit and caboodle is going to be addressed."

To that end – and stop us if you've heard this before – the GMs approved the formation of a new committee to investigate goaltending equipment.

"There's a new resolve," said league vice-president Colin Campbell. "Enough of this. Enough already."

What seems to have energized the goaltending debate again is complaints that some goaltenders are flaunting the rules without penalty. Earlier this season, Dallas goalies Marty Turco and Mike Smith both wore cardboard flaps on their pads in a pre-game skate in Vancouver in mock protest of similar attachments worn by Canucks goalie Roberto Luongo.

On Jan. 3, Islanders goalie Rick DiPietro had a pair of goalie pads confiscated after the first period of a game against Florida because they hadn't been approved by the league. The league apparently learned that DiPietro was planning to use the pads just minutes before game time and forced him to take them off. But after examination, the pads were given back to DiPietro without fine or suspension.

"Everyone is tired of the conversation," said Holland. "Coming out of the lockout, there were so many issues we couldn't focus on just the goalies. Now, we can."

New Jersey Devils goaltender Martin Brodeur said the league set standards after the lockout but failed to enforce them.

"From my point of view, and I hope they think about this, they need to make the effort to size everyone individually," said Brodeur in an interview from New Jersey. "If they do that, they'll see a big difference. They have to reduce the little guys to being little guys and the skinny guys to being skinny guys. Those guys are taking advantage of the system."

Brodeur, who is 6-foot-2, wears pads that are 34-35 inches in length and can't understand why most goalies in the league are wearing the maximum 38-inch pads.

"There's no reason why anyone under six-feet should be wearing 38-inch pads, but everybody is wearing them," he said. "It's like if you have a 33-inch waist, you shouldn't be allowed to wear XXL pants."

Islanders GM Garth Snow, a former NHL goalie once notorious for wearing wildly oversized gear, spoke to the GMs yesterday and gave them information on how he used to use his equipment to add blocking area.

Kevin Lowe, the Oilers GM, said it's less about helping goal-scoring and more about "optics."

"It's not that the equipment is any bigger, it's how they wear it," he said.

So once again, NHL execs have declared war on the goalies.

Somehow, however, the goalies always seem to win.

[LeftWinger 4,951]

...I am willing to bet that the first goalie to suffer from whatever new rules are put in place will be JS Giguere...

[Hank 0]

...I am willing to bet that the first goalie to suffer from whatever new rules are put in place will be JS Giguere...

Which is precisely why I didn't want the Wings to go after him. He'll be making $6M a year and giving up 5 goals a game.

His entire 'ability' is to be as big as possible. With shrunken gear, this guy will be in the ECHL before you can say 'overrated'.

[Barrie 900]

I don't have a problem with big goalie equipment, but I'd rather they shrink the equipment instead of making the nets bigger.

[Mors 201]

Awesome...hopefully Anaheim can say goodbye to the Michelin Man

[stevkrause 1,247]

I don't have a problem with big goalie equipment, but I'd rather they shrink the equipment instead of making the nets bigger.

I see a SLEW of goalies becoming shells after this... but DAMN does the game need this... I'm stoked.

[zata40 3]

I don't have a problem with big goalie equipment, but I'd rather they shrink the equipment instead of making the nets bigger.

thats just what i think.

[Chase 0]

Awesome...hopefully Anaheim can say goodbye to the Michelin Man

Lol good one

[Hank 0]

Awesome...hopefully Anaheim can say goodbye to the Michelin Man

Did anyone else see the fit he threw on the bench after giving up 3 quick goals to the Wild? Just seeing him swimming in all that gear made me laugh.

And the 3 goals he let in were classic Giguere - standing and not even waving at any of the pucks. He has no reflexes whatsoever. And then he blames the defense for not picking up the shootes. Brian Rolston fired a puck from 25 feet away, and on a bad angle, that Giggy saw all the way and yet the only thing he did was turtle his head.

Giggy sucks and he's the exact reason why goalie gear needs to be reduced. I'm just tired of watching some of the worlds best hockey players have to compete in an unfair era where goalies are permitted to take up twice the cubic space as goalies did for the past 80 years.

The only issue I see is that the goalies and PA will object to this - even with current tenders like Brodeur and Turco wanting change.

So in the end, the decision will be the goalies - wear smaller gear or work in front of larger nets.

If larger nets are the final decision, no hatred should be directed towards the league or GM's. All of peoples venom should be thrown at the goalies.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

...I am willing to bet that the first goalie to suffer from whatever new rules are put in place will be JS Giguere...

I honestly would be surprised if there was a noticeable change in his performance.

Giguere is a pretty big guy (6'1" 200 lbs) so he'll be able to justify relatively bigger equipment, and is a very sound positional goaltender. As long as he's on a good defensive team like the Ducks, I think he'll excel. If he were on a bad team that didn't clear rebounds and protect his crease, then I think he'd be exposed.

To me, he's great at squaring to the shooter, but otherwise mostly big and slow.

And thank god they may actually do something about this. Good to hear Brodeur speaking out about this. It'll be harder for other goalies to complain when one of the best is in favor of it. I like how earlier in the year Marty called out Manny Legace for wearing the league max in pads, in spite of being 5' 9".

You want to talk about goalies suffering from reduced pad size? it's gonna be guys like that.

Edited February 20, 2008 by haroldsnepsts

[Turkey 0]

And thank god they may actually do something about this. Good to hear Brodeur speaking out about this. It'll be harder for other goalies to complain when one of the best is in favor of it. I like how earlier in the year Marty called out Manny Legace for wearing the league max in pads, in spite of being 5' 9".

You want to talk about goalies suffering from reduced pad size? it's gonna be guys like that.

This is just what I was thinking. Manny could be in trouble. He's got those stubby little legs and all.

[Jocu 0]

Laugh out loud at 90% of the posts in this topic, espcially the ones aimed at Giguere.

You can't shrink the goalie equipment much more without sacrificing safety, especially the chest protectors. For those of you who don't play goal (I'm looking at most of you), a shot can still hurt with a C/A on, granted it's not a "OMG I'M GOING TO DIE" pain, but you still feel a 80-100 mph shot.

The only new rule the NHL needs to implement should be a rule that makes the gear you wear be appropriate to your body. Manny Legace doesn't need to wear pads the same size as Olaf Kolzig. Everyone gives Giguere s*** for his gear, when Manny Legace is probably the biggest "cheater" in the league, granted he's doing it legally.

[Earthhuman 8]

The biggest difference is going to be in the shootout. So many pucks are just barely deflected.

[Hank 0]

Laugh out loud at 90% of the posts in this topic, espcially the ones aimed at Giguere.

You can't shrink the goalie equipment much more without sacrificing safety, especially the chest protectors. For those of you who don't play goal (I'm looking at most of you), a shot can still hurt with a C/A on, granted it's not a "OMG I'M GOING TO DIE" pain, but you still feel a 80-100 mph shot.

The only new rule the NHL needs to implement should be a rule that makes the gear you wear be appropriate to your body. Manny Legace doesn't need to wear pads the same size as Olaf Kolzig. Everyone gives Giguere s*** for his gear, when Manny Legace is probably the biggest "cheater" in the league, granted he's doing it legally.

It's not so much the chest area it's the belly, arms, leg pads, trapper, blocker and shoulder pads (or height of them).

And Kelly Hrudey said two seasons ago that he took practice with an NHL team wearing modern equipment and said it was a joke. He said if he had that gear he would have played another 10 seasons.

On some shots, he said he didn't even feel it.

That's from a former NHL goalie so please don't take offense when I say I'll believe him over you.

And if goalies were so concerned about safety why don't they wear neck guards.

The fact is, the goalie equipment has blown up from protecting skin and bones to protecting nets. When I see goalies like Giguere, who have gear where there is no skin or bones, I have a problem.

Again, if Broduer (arguabely the greatest goalie in the history of the game) says they can shrink gear, they can do it.

And I don't think anyone realises how much of an advantage it is to have XXXL pants and belly pads that stick out 18" from the players stomach. Both can be easily reduced without sacrificing any safety whatsoever.

[CAredwingsfan91 28]

Awesome...hopefully Anaheim can say goodbye to the Michelin Man

ahahahahahahaha i hope he starts getting lit up im sick of people talkin about how great he is

[Hiei 192]

Remember the short leg pads that Ron Hextall used to wear? those only (barely) came up to the bottom of his Kneecaps.

Manny Legace's pads go all the way up into his stomach!

A good number of short goalies wore short/medium leg pads and STILL were great. Mike Vernon, Grant Fuhr, even down to guys like Arty Irbe.

Something also needs to be done about upper body protection....Who else remembers Garth of the giant shoulder pad Snow? or as I used to call him Girth Snow. Giguere looks like he's wearing a 3x5 Cardboard Box under his jersey...

I'm just glad that our guys don't look too horrible.

[Jocu 0]

Something also needs to be done about upper body protection....Who else remembers Garth of the giant shoulder pad Snow? or as I used to call him Girth Snow.

I can't defend Snow, even we in the goalie community consider him a bum.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Some points of reference:

Ron Hextall: 6'3" 200 lbs. played until the '99 season.

Roberto Luongo: 6'3" 205lbs.

J.S. Giguere: 6'1" 200 lbs.

Edited February 20, 2008 by haroldsnepsts

[Jocu 0]

Goalies back then:

Goalies now:

Butterfly saves > the idea that it's mostly the gear.

[Dabura 12,207]

you still feel a 80-100 mph shot.

...So? The point of equipment is to protect, not to eliminate sensations altogether.

I never thought I'd say this, but I agree with Campbell -- enough's enough. If goalies want to be sissies and elevate their play through equipment "upgrades," they can take a walk.

[OsGOD 3]

I just think the skaters should raise up their skill level.... why does everything have to fall on the goalies....

[lfd250 1]

If they make the nets bigger will they make the score-o hole wider?

[Dabura 12,207]

why does everything have to fall on the goalies....

For starters, it's much easier to establish and enforce a goalie equipment rule than it is...well, basically tell everyone who's not a goalie to "be better." Second, it's the goalies who are in the wrong, not the other skaters. Why should forwards and defenders be penalized for something goalies are doing? Third, the league wants more scoring, needs more scoring. This would go a long way in addressing that problem. Fourth, this is not the kind of controversy you want fermenting when steroids are a hot story in the sports world.

The list goes on.

[Jocu 0]

For starters, it's much easier to establish and enforce a goalie equipment rule than it is...well, basically tell everyone who's not a goalie to "be better." Second, it's the goalies who are in the wrong, not the other skaters. Why should forwards and defenders be penalized for something goalies are doing? Third, the league wants more scoring, needs more scoring. This would go a long way in addressing that problem. Fourth, this is not the kind of controversy you want fermenting when steroids are a hot story in the sports world.

The list goes on.

Agreed, it's not the players' fault that goalies actually evolved and go to camps to learn what save to use for what occasion, work on a perfect butterfly and stance, etc.

[Dabura 12,207]

Agreed, it's not the players' fault that goalies actually evolved and go to camps to learn what save to use for what occasion, work on a perfect butterfly and stance, etc.

If you're seriously denying that there's an equipment issue, I see no reason to even start an argument with you.