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#61 jerm8352

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Posted 26 February 2008 - 04:31 PM

QUOTE (redwingsrule07 @ February 26, 2008 - 11:08AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
There is alot of drama queens in this forum right now. Most likely the same ones who agreed with the critics about the salary cap being the end of the Red Wings winning ways. This is as good a team as we have had in the last 15 years and somehow some of you are too blind to see it. Ken Holland is an outstanding GM, maybe even the very best in Hockey. Rather than trash the Wings on a Red Wing site, go be a Dallas or Duck fan and bash us from there. We expect stupid senseless talk from them anyway. Do all of us "true Wings fans" a favor and don't get back on the band wagon. See ya in the playoffs, uh, maybe not Colorado though.

Really? You're telling me this team stacks up with the 02 team? Or even the 97 team? Just because some one is fed up with what the team is doing does not make them any less of a fan. If that were true, there would not be any Lions fans in existence.
I remember the good old days when LGW was worth going to and not full of blind homers who freak out just because someone thinks that the Wings aren't perfect.

#62 kevotron

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Posted 26 February 2008 - 04:31 PM

If you are lazy, and you suck--LOOK OUT!!!

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related
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#63 Superman54

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Posted 26 February 2008 - 04:41 PM

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related
BAM!!!

#64 Superman54

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Posted 26 February 2008 - 04:43 PM

Im gonna grade this one a C+
I am very excited so see Stuart here and am happy we got a physical defensemen
Unfortuantly as much as I would liked a forward it just didnt happen
Holland stated just now on TSN some things just did not work out so at least he did not go without trying
Though we could have just given Kopecky for Fedorov
I hate Kopecky.....

#65 stuart6

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Posted 26 February 2008 - 04:49 PM

QUOTE (ShanahanMan @ February 26, 2008 - 03:25PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
while Stuart is a solid acquisition, I believe a 2nd line scorer should have been the number 1 priority. With that in mind, Holland did not succeed. To me, grade = D

I agree and unless people wanted to give up Filpula, Kopecky, Smith (1st round pick from last year) plus a 1st round pick in this years draft... people should be happy that we didn't do something stupid like that. Hossa could end up pulling a Forsberg and the Pens would be in deep s.hit, Armstrong had great chemistry with Crosby plus the 1st round picks are very important now a days.

#66 Opie

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Posted 26 February 2008 - 04:50 PM

QUOTE (Dabura @ February 26, 2008 - 08:50PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Ken Holland is a moron.

I'm done with this place.


Sweet, you and leftwinger anyone else fed up, and want to leave, go now because the bandwagon isn't coming back around to pick up fair weather fans, good riddance!!!

So that we are all on the same page the following 2nd line scorers were moved today:

Fedorov and Lapointe, former Wings, that were being traded form the Central division, their is no way either of those two teams help the best team in their divisions get better.

Hossa, is not a 2nd line scorer. He is a first line scorer and him and a healthy Crosby will be unreal.


Edited by Opie, 26 February 2008 - 04:53 PM.

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#67 dallas27

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Posted 26 February 2008 - 04:55 PM

QUOTE (gcom007 @ February 26, 2008 - 05:04PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I was under the impression that D was more of a priority. But do you believe what Presidential candidates say when running too?

It doesn't matter how good your d is in hockey if you can't put the puck in the net


It's a Festivus miracle!!!

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#68 Viperar

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Posted 26 February 2008 - 04:55 PM

QUOTE (Opie @ February 26, 2008 - 04:50PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Sweet, you and leftwinger anyone else fed up, and want to leave, go now because the bandwagon isn't coming back around to pick up fair weather fans, good riddance!!!

So that we are all on the same page the following 2nd line scorers were moved today:

Fedorov and Lapointe, former Wings, that were being traded form the Central division, their is no way either of those two teams help the best team in their divisions get better.

Hossa, is not a 2nd line scorer. He is a first line scorer and him and a healthy Crosby will be unreal.


Dabura is hardly a bandwagon fan. I love how he shows dissent from the crowd and you write him off as a bandwagon fan. Seriously grow up.

Your everything is ok or take the highway approach is no better than those telling Holland to go F*** himself right now. People need to chill
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#69 Dabura

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Posted 26 February 2008 - 05:01 PM

I don't think Ken Holland is a bad GM. In fact, I think he's a very good one.

But let's be realistic. He has openly acknowledged this team has weaknesses on a number of occasions, dating all the way back to the Wings' last postseason exit. He stood pat over the summer because he thought it wise to wait until the deadline. Fair enough. He stood pat in the regular season because, even though it was painfully obvious that our youngsters weren't going to cut it, the emergence of Henrik Zetterberg bought him some time, allowing him to keep looking forward to the deadline, not the here and now. Fair enough.

Then deadline day comes. Surely after all of this waiting and hyping, and with all of this cap room, Holland would finally make good on his talk. Right?

Folks, the answer is a resounding "NO."

That, to me, is inexcusable. Holland had a fantastic opportunity to make some quality moves for dirt cheap today, but in the end, he only has Brad Stuart to show for it. All of that waiting, all of those "tough decisions" (e.g. letting Markov walk because of cap concerns) -- they all ultimately led up to...Brad Stuart? As much as I like Stuart, this whole saga gets a big "WTF" from me.

Now, I'm not one to advocate trading just for the sake of trading; if there are no genuinely palatable deals to be made, then you don't make any deals. But when you hear that a guy like Prospal was had for dirt cheap, and then you juxtapose that with all of Holland's talk about needing some more secondary scoring at "the right price" (whatever that is)...something's not adding up.

This roster has issues, guys -- and I'm not talking about its current injuries. Has it dominated thus far? Yes, but as history shows us, the regular season means little. More specifically, it's not an especially reliable indicator of postseason success. Just ask the Wings, who have developed a knack for fizzling out in the playoffs despite strong showings in the regular season. The way you, as a GM, put an end to such a trend is by taking a good hard look at the team's weaknesses and doing everything in your power to ensure that these weaknesses are either as small a factor as possible or eliminated altogether. I thought Holland did a great job in seeing to it that this team got grittier and more resilient last season. It's no coincidence that that was the Wings' deepest run in years.

But the problems don't stop there, which is troubling because it seems like Holland did stop there. Sure, the Wings are tougher, but that doesn't cover other issues like their lack of scoring depth and their lack of a big, physical, crease-clearing, top 4 guy on the blue line. No matter how much anyone wants it to be true, a secondary scoring group consisting of Hudler, Flip, Sammy and Cleary will not cut it in the postseason. You think Hudler's having problems now? Just wait until he goes up against the likes of the Ducks in the playoffs. This secondary scoring group would be excusable only if the Wings were well-equipped to handle a long, taxing, one-goal series against a monster shutdown squad like the Ducks. But, seeing as how that would require an extremely solid, well-rounded blue line, which the Wings lack (undersized, too o-minded, not much snarl), the secondary scoring group remains unequivocally pathetic.

This will be my last post here. I simply can't stomach the kind of crap Holland pulled over on Motown this season.

Inexcusable, unacceptable. Goodbye.

Don't Toews me, bro!


#70 GoalieManPat

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Posted 26 February 2008 - 05:09 PM

If a team is only going to get depth at forward or depth at D I would take the D.

And Dabura please dont let the door hit you in the ass

Edited by GoalieManPat, 26 February 2008 - 05:12 PM.


#71 BuckeyeWingsfan80

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Posted 26 February 2008 - 05:10 PM

QUOTE (Opie @ February 26, 2008 - 04:50PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hossa, is not a 2nd line scorer. He is a first line scorer and him and a healthy Crosby will be unreal.


Pittsburgh is ok until the playoffs start.

they have shaky goal-tending right now (unless you believe in Ty Conklin) and they really could have used another servicable or even top 4 defenseman.

Unless they planning to win playoffs 5-4, it isn't going to work for them and they paid through the nose.
Don't take it from fans on LGW, take it from his peers. NHL players have spoken and they think Tootoo is the dirtiest player in the league.

Get a clue already.

#72 thedisappearer

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Posted 26 February 2008 - 07:24 PM

QUOTE (Dabura @ February 26, 2008 - 04:01PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This will be my last post here. I simply can't stomach the kind of crap Holland pulled over on Motown this season.

What? You are quitting a fan site because of the GM? Dude, we don't need "fans" like that here. Get a life, get over yourself, and get a Ducks jersey.
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#73 SouthernWingsFan

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Posted 26 February 2008 - 07:54 PM

While more player movement obviously yields to more excitement, the trade deadline day for the Wings was neither a success or failure to me. Pretty much a flat C in terms of grade, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

We've seen that it can certainly happen, but do you realistically think that the Wings will continue to be without their top-4 defensemen out. We've seen two top defensemen out last playoffs, but the team right now has somewhat of a larger "minor league prescence."

This team, when healthy, was winning more often than not. This team after the trading deadline when they get most people back, is going to be pretty identical to the one that was winning more often than not before the beginning/middle of this month.

I don't see why that can't happen in the playoffs once everybody starts getting used to each other again and getting their timing back once healthy.

#74 J-Swift

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Posted 26 February 2008 - 08:27 PM

Sorry if it's already been posted, but here's Melrose's in-depth analysis of who lost at the trade deadline.

Any idea what prominent Western Conference team Melrose refers to as a loser today? rolleyes.gif

#75 vangvace

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Posted 26 February 2008 - 09:42 PM

QUOTE (Dabura @ February 26, 2008 - 05:01PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't think Ken Holland is a bad GM. In fact, I think he's a very good one.

But let's be realistic. He has openly acknowledged this team has weaknesses on a number of occasions, dating all the way back to the Wings' last postseason exit. He stood pat over the summer because he thought it wise to wait until the deadline. Fair enough. He stood pat in the regular season because, even though it was painfully obvious that our youngsters weren't going to cut it, the emergence of Henrik Zetterberg bought him some time, allowing him to keep looking forward to the deadline, not the here and now. Fair enough.

Then deadline day comes. Surely after all of this waiting and hyping, and with all of this cap room, Holland would finally make good on his talk. Right?

Folks, the answer is a resounding "NO."

That, to me, is inexcusable. Holland had a fantastic opportunity to make some quality moves for dirt cheap today, but in the end, he only has Brad Stuart to show for it. All of that waiting, all of those "tough decisions" (e.g. letting Markov walk because of cap concerns) -- they all ultimately led up to...Brad Stuart? As much as I like Stuart, this whole saga gets a big "WTF" from me.

Now, I'm not one to advocate trading just for the sake of trading; if there are no genuinely palatable deals to be made, then you don't make any deals. But when you hear that a guy like Prospal was had for dirt cheap, and then you juxtapose that with all of Holland's talk about needing some more secondary scoring at "the right price" (whatever that is)...something's not adding up.

This roster has issues, guys -- and I'm not talking about its current injuries. Has it dominated thus far? Yes, but as history shows us, the regular season means little. More specifically, it's not an especially reliable indicator of postseason success. Just ask the Wings, who have developed a knack for fizzling out in the playoffs despite strong showings in the regular season. The way you, as a GM, put an end to such a trend is by taking a good hard look at the team's weaknesses and doing everything in your power to ensure that these weaknesses are either as small a factor as possible or eliminated altogether. I thought Holland did a great job in seeing to it that this team got grittier and more resilient last season. It's no coincidence that that was the Wings' deepest run in years.

But the problems don't stop there, which is troubling because it seems like Holland did stop there. Sure, the Wings are tougher, but that doesn't cover other issues like their lack of scoring depth and their lack of a big, physical, crease-clearing, top 4 guy on the blue line. No matter how much anyone wants it to be true, a secondary scoring group consisting of Hudler, Flip, Sammy and Cleary will not cut it in the postseason. You think Hudler's having problems now? Just wait until he goes up against the likes of the Ducks in the playoffs. This secondary scoring group would be excusable only if the Wings were well-equipped to handle a long, taxing, one-goal series against a monster shutdown squad like the Ducks. But, seeing as how that would require an extremely solid, well-rounded blue line, which the Wings lack (undersized, too o-minded, not much snarl), the secondary scoring group remains unequivocally pathetic.

This will be my last post here. I simply can't stomach the kind of crap Holland pulled over on Motown this season.

Inexcusable, unacceptable. Goodbye.


clap.gif

Sane and rational post. I like it.
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#76 ShanahanMan

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Posted 26 February 2008 - 09:58 PM

QUOTE (Dabura @ February 26, 2008 - 02:01PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't think Ken Holland is a bad GM. In fact, I think he's a very good one.

But let's be realistic. He has openly acknowledged this team has weaknesses on a number of occasions, dating all the way back to the Wings' last postseason exit. He stood pat over the summer because he thought it wise to wait until the deadline. Fair enough. He stood pat in the regular season because, even though it was painfully obvious that our youngsters weren't going to cut it, the emergence of Henrik Zetterberg bought him some time, allowing him to keep looking forward to the deadline, not the here and now. Fair enough.

Then deadline day comes. Surely after all of this waiting and hyping, and with all of this cap room, Holland would finally make good on his talk. Right?

Folks, the answer is a resounding "NO."

That, to me, is inexcusable. Holland had a fantastic opportunity to make some quality moves for dirt cheap today, but in the end, he only has Brad Stuart to show for it. All of that waiting, all of those "tough decisions" (e.g. letting Markov walk because of cap concerns) -- they all ultimately led up to...Brad Stuart? As much as I like Stuart, this whole saga gets a big "WTF" from me.

Now, I'm not one to advocate trading just for the sake of trading; if there are no genuinely palatable deals to be made, then you don't make any deals. But when you hear that a guy like Prospal was had for dirt cheap, and then you juxtapose that with all of Holland's talk about needing some more secondary scoring at "the right price" (whatever that is)...something's not adding up.

This roster has issues, guys -- and I'm not talking about its current injuries. Has it dominated thus far? Yes, but as history shows us, the regular season means little. More specifically, it's not an especially reliable indicator of postseason success. Just ask the Wings, who have developed a knack for fizzling out in the playoffs despite strong showings in the regular season. The way you, as a GM, put an end to such a trend is by taking a good hard look at the team's weaknesses and doing everything in your power to ensure that these weaknesses are either as small a factor as possible or eliminated altogether. I thought Holland did a great job in seeing to it that this team got grittier and more resilient last season. It's no coincidence that that was the Wings' deepest run in years.

But the problems don't stop there, which is troubling because it seems like Holland did stop there. Sure, the Wings are tougher, but that doesn't cover other issues like their lack of scoring depth and their lack of a big, physical, crease-clearing, top 4 guy on the blue line. No matter how much anyone wants it to be true, a secondary scoring group consisting of Hudler, Flip, Sammy and Cleary will not cut it in the postseason. You think Hudler's having problems now? Just wait until he goes up against the likes of the Ducks in the playoffs. This secondary scoring group would be excusable only if the Wings were well-equipped to handle a long, taxing, one-goal series against a monster shutdown squad like the Ducks. But, seeing as how that would require an extremely solid, well-rounded blue line, which the Wings lack (undersized, too o-minded, not much snarl), the secondary scoring group remains unequivocally pathetic.

This will be my last post here. I simply can't stomach the kind of crap Holland pulled over on Motown this season.

Inexcusable, unacceptable. Goodbye.


you're absolutely right. thumbup.gif

don't run out though....



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#77 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 26 February 2008 - 10:13 PM

QUOTE (vangvace @ February 26, 2008 - 07:42PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
clap.gif

Sane and rational post. I like it.

I agree with pretty much everything he said. But anyone wanna place bets it's truly his last post here? tongue.gif

But honestly I didn't expect this trade deadline to fix it. Holland has done an okay job, but under his leadership the Wings have had a slow decline in size, toughness, and yes I'm going to say it, grit. It's why I'm glad to have Stuart. At least that gives a little something to the blueline.

Look at the Wings 97 and 98 roster. Think about how many of those guys were big and could play tough and could play the game. I'd love to have a lineup like that again.

Replacing those type of players is a much bigger process than any deadline moves can fix.



#78 Grim

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Posted 26 February 2008 - 10:29 PM

All blame aside, it was Kenny himself who declared this team's need for a depth defenseman and a secondary scorer. by all accounts, he only accomplished half of those goals.

optimists, bandwagoners, sourpusses alike... the greatest perception on how well Kenny has done will be reflected by the number of empty seats during the opening rounds.

#79 CaliWingsNut

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Posted 26 February 2008 - 10:49 PM

QUOTE (haroldsnepsts @ February 26, 2008 - 10:13PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I agree with pretty much everything he said. But anyone wanna place bets it's truly his last post here? tongue.gif

But honestly I didn't expect this trade deadline to fix it. Holland has done an okay job, but under his leadership the Wings have had a slow decline in size, toughness, and yes I'm going to say it, grit. It's why I'm glad to have Stuart. At least that gives a little something to the blueline.

Look at the Wings 97 and 98 roster. Think about how many of those guys were big and could play tough and could play the game. I'd love to have a lineup like that again.

Replacing those type of players is a much bigger process than any deadline moves can fix.


anyone wanna make a poll on how long it'll be?

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#80 eva unit zero

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Posted 26 February 2008 - 11:07 PM

Well, I'll put it this way.

The Wings' major needs were a defensively capable, gritty defenseman and someone to take Sammy's place on the power play. With Stuart, they fill both holes.

Ideally, Stuart resigns for 2-3 years, somewhere around his current salary. His skill set first the Wings very, very well and I have been interested in picking him up since he was a Shark.

The only team of contenders that is deeper as far as scoring forwards go is Ottawa. And even that is a very slight difference.

Anaheim is the only team with a defense that can come close to matching Detroit's, and there is no contending team with significantly better goaltending than Detroit.

A top four, two-way defenseman with grit and puck skills was the only real 'need' Detroit had. Stuart fills that hole perfectly. I wanted to see Hossa...but not at the price Pittsburgh paid. If you consider that Armstrong for Dupuis would have been a fair straight swap, then Pittsburgh gave up Christensen, Esposito, and a first pick. That would compare to Detroit giving up Filppula, Kindl, and a first for just Hossa. To that I say a big HELL NO. I was willing to give up ONE of those things, not all three.
Brad Richards? It would have been him and Holmqvist for Filppula, Howard, and Draper. No thanks.
Sergei Fedorov? He could probably have been had for Derek Meech if you go based simply on value. But that would have been an intra-divisional trade...so it wasn't happening for less than a guy like Hudler or Ericsson. Not worth it.
Ruutu or Ladd would have cost Filppula or Hudler. No thanks.
Brandon Bochenski? Traded by Anaheim to Nashville for future considerations. No chance of Bochenski in Detroit.
Prospal? Picard and a conditional pick, equates roughly to Ericsson and a pick. No way in hell.
So that's all the secondary scoring that moved at the deadline. None of it was worth what the Wings would have had to give up, and only Hossa and Richards would have been an upgrade over what's currently on the second line.

So saying that Holland failed because he didn't pick up a second liner is false. He didn't overpay for a second liner because it was a want, not a need. He got Stuart at a bargain by not having to give up a roster player or top prospect but still acquiring the best fit available for our most glaring need.

So, a grade? A-. It would only have been an A or A+ had he managed something like Samuelsson for Prospal, Lebda for Satan, or some other trade for secondary scoring that would have been an upgrade without giving up any important players or skilled youngsters.

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