132 replies to this topic

[Deke]

If you ask me, I'd pick Ovechkin any day over Crosby. It's interesting, there are people who loves Crosby and who hates him, but I never really heard that somebody hates Ovechkin, there's probably a good reason for that!

It's an irrational hatred. When he first started playing he had all this hype in the media, and he wasn't even proven yet. He received attention that he was supposed to earn, but hadn't yet. He had endorsements without even scoring his first goal.

I didn't like Crosby at first for this very reason.

But if you like hockey, there really is no rational reason to hate the kid. He's earned his stripes. He plays with heart and a great work effort.

There are better hockey players out there, but Crosby is definitely elite and will be one of the best players the game has ever seen.

Don't hate the player, hate the game. The game being the media and the NHL for trying to hype him before he earned it. If he hadn't received all of this attention before he started playing, people would look at him like a Cinderella story and it'd be different. Everyone hates the favorite and roots for the underdog. Crosby was never an underdog thanks to the media.

Then there is the whole Canadian aspect. Yes they overhype their players. Yes they think they are better than the Euros. Everyone thought that the Canadians were going to take the gold in the Olympics. Yea right.

I talk hockey with a Canadian buddy of mine and for a while he was convinced that the Canadians had INVENTED the game of hockey. . . Sure Canada has a rich hockey history, but thinking they invented it is just dumb. Canada loves their hockey, but they need to tone it back a notch and realize that it's a global sport. Which one of the hundreds reasons I think it's the greatest sport.

Edited by Deke, 04 March 2008 - 03:20 PM.

[Never_Retire_Steve]

i meant to say proven that he is better outside of sids shadow

Fair enough, I think this goes to show how good Lidstrom is though because who can replace him? Crosby has shown that he can be replaced, no one has shown that Lidstrom can (at least on the Wings)

[Yzerfan1999]

Fair enough, I think this goes to show how good Lidstrom is though because who can replace him? Crosby has shown that he can be replaced, no one has shown that Lidstrom can (at least on the Wings)

eh, I think thats more a display of Pittsburgh's offensive depth with Malkin - or Detroit's lack of Defensive depth after Lids.

[RedFX]

I think Ovechkin is better pure scorer. But Crosby is the better all around player IMO.

And for those of you playing the Canadian vs. European card, may I remind you of how much the media touted Jagr as the world's best year after year?

[toby91_ca]

I talk hockey with a Canadian buddy of mine and for a while he was convinced that the Canadians had INVENTED the game of hockey. . . Sure Canada has a rich hockey history, but thinking they invented it is just dumb. Canada loves their hockey, but they need to tone it back a notch and realize that it's a global sport. Which one of the hundreds reasons I think it's the greatest sport.

Are you suggesting that hockey was not invented in Canada?

[Wings_Fan_In_Exile]

OK, he's a talented cry-baby.

[Izzy24]

I talk hockey with a Canadian buddy of mine and for a while he was convinced that the Canadians had INVENTED the game of hockey. . . Sure Canada has a rich hockey history, but thinking they invented it is just dumb. Canada loves their hockey, but they need to tone it back a notch and realize that it's a global sport. Which one of the hundreds reasons I think it's the greatest sport.

What?

[edicius]

Are you suggesting that hockey was not invented in Canada?

It wasn't. Its origins are in Europe.



17th century Dutch painting FTW.

[Reds4Life]

No, Ice Hockey was invented in Canada for sure. But Finns were the first to develop ice skates some 5,000 years ago from animal bones.

[edicius]

No, Ice Hockey was invented in Canada for sure. But Finns were the first to develop ice skates some 5,000 years ago from animal bones.

Eh, everything I've read has stated that ice hockey's origins come from Europe and that immigrants to Canada brought the game with them. Perhaps the modern incarnation of the game belongs to Canada, but its origins are wholly European in nature.

EDIT: In fact, I remember reading in one of Brian McFarlane's books that the British Royal Family was known to play a game extremely similar to ice hockey in the early 1800s.

Edited by edicius, 04 March 2008 - 04:00 PM.

[Reds4Life]

Well, most of NA population came from Europe. But I know for sure Ice-Hockey was invented in Canada.

[Never_Retire_Steve]

eh, I think thats more a display of Pittsburgh's offensive depth with Malkin - or Detroit's lack of Defensive depth after Lids.

Yet, we're still first in all defensive categories in the NHL, do you see what I am saying?

[Yzerfan1999]

Yet, we're still first in all defensive categories in the NHL, do you see what I am saying?

No, not really - then you would be contradicting your own statement because you are saying Lidstrom WAS replaced if we remained first in every defensive category....even though it is clear he wasn't because they Wings continued to lose and those stats are more likely a reflection of earlier season success.

I was just claiming that Malkin is not a huge drop off in talent compared to Crosby, whereas Rafalski is a good defenseman, but he is no Nick Lidstrom, and in the Wings case he injured as well, leaving Chelios and eventually Lebda and Lilja as our top D-pairings.

My point was that just because Pittsburgh continued its success with Malkin after Crosby was injured does not mean that Crosby is not one of the best, if not the best in the league - it just means the team was able to rally around Malkin and secondary scoring to keep winning.

[Doggy]

Seems like the media hype really throws people off Crosby - you either have the people that ignore all that and actually watch him play - and the people who are so bothered by the attention this kid gets that they build a personal hatred for him.

Forget the endorsements, the coverage and all the other hype he gets - it is not hard to make the argument that he is the best player in the league based on the points he puts up and his style of play. Calling him a 'cry-baby' is just ignorant, so he bitched about a few calls when he was a rookie...who hasn't? It just shows his emotion level and commitment to the game.

Like I said, a lot of the people who don't recognize Crosby as one of the best - if not the best, come across as just being bitter. You can't ignore the talent this guy has.

Perfect. My thoughts exactly.

[Doggy]

Yet, we're still first in all defensive categories in the NHL, do you see what I am saying?

Dude, you're all over the place. You seem to have completely forgotten what your point was.

[theman19]

Eh, everything I've read has stated that ice hockey's origins come from Europe and that immigrants to Canada brought the game with them. Perhaps the modern incarnation of the game belongs to Canada, but its origins are wholly European in nature.

EDIT: In fact, I remember reading in one of Brian McFarlane's books that the British Royal Family was known to play a game extremely similar to ice hockey in the early 1800s.

okay,...i'll go there. If we're going to play "origins" i think the Canadians invented the modern variation of the game. But Field hockey goes back thousands of years. It's history is untraceable in the American Indian culture it's most known for, but there's clear descriptions of it being played in ancient egypt 5,000 years ago. Similarly games using curved sticks to hit an object have been played in Europe since the middle ages, in fact the word "hockey" is recorded in the Galway Statutes of 1527.

http://upload.wikime...tiek_hockey.JPG

Here's that pick of ancient field hockey

[GordieSid&Ted]

This season, I would argue that Ovechkin has easily been the biggest offensive threat. But I wouldn't say either Ovechkin or Crosby has been the best overall forward in the league this year. Henrik Zetterberg has been among the scoring leaders all year, and is far better defensively than any of the other guys who have been up there and are there with him right now. So while I don't consider Crosby the best forward, nor the best offensive threat..I would say that you are crazy if you don't put him as one of the ten best players. If we assume top players are weighted evenly by position across the top 12 this season, we'd end up with Z, Ovechkin, Crosby, Lecavalier, Alfredsson, and Datsyuk at forward, Lidstrom, Rafalski, Phaneuf, and Chara on defense, and we'll say Leclaire and Luongo (both pretty interchangable with Brodeur, Osgood, Giguere, Thomas or Nabokov) in goal.
Do you think Crosby is one of the two worst players I listed? No? Then he's a top ten player. Especially considering the fact that Heatley, Spezza, Iginla, and Malkin all merit strong consideration for a top-ten spot as well.

Jesus Christ Eva. You are the biggest freaking Zetterberg slappy i've ever seen. There isn't a team in the league that wouldnt' take Crosby or Ovechkin over Zetterberg.

ZETTERBERG IS NOT THE #1 RORWARD IN THE LEAGUE. HE ISN"T EVEN THE #1 PLAYER ON THE WINGS.

2+ months ago I said Datsyuk would lead the Wings in points by the end of the year. And that was when Z had a multi digit lead on him. Dats is going to lead the team in points again and probably win another Selke. More points, best defensive forward = DATSYUK > ZETTERBERG.

That statement of yours is one of the most ridiculous i've seen in years.

[eva unit zero]

Jesus Christ Eva. You are the biggest freaking Zetterberg slappy i've ever seen. There isn't a team in the league that wouldnt' take Crosby or Ovechkin over Zetterberg.

ZETTERBERG IS NOT THE #1 RORWARD IN THE LEAGUE. HE ISN"T EVEN THE #1 PLAYER ON THE WINGS.

2+ months ago I said Datsyuk would lead the Wings in points by the end of the year. And that was when Z had a multi digit lead on him. Dats is going to lead the team in points again and probably win another Selke. More points, best defensive forward = DATSYUK > ZETTERBERG.

That statement of yours is one of the most ridiculous i've seen in years.

I included both Z and Dats in that list without any kind of ranking other than 'Top 12'. Are you trying to say Z is not a top 12 forward in the NHL? Because if you are...you are very wrong.

[GordieSid&Ted]

I included both Z and Dats in that list without any kind of ranking other than 'Top 12'. Are you trying to say Z is not a top 12 forward in the NHL? Because if you are...you are very wrong.

No, I'm not saying that at all. Obviously by my response, one could assume I took your list to be a ranking with Zetterberg being in the top slot.

Hence why I responded as such.

If you aren't claiming Zetterberg is the #1 forward then I don't have any issue.


And to answer your question, yup. I'd have him in my top 12 I believe.

PS: I think if you read the bolded text of your post you can see how somebody might think that is a ranking you are putting forth there.

Edited by GordieSid&Ted, 05 March 2008 - 11:14 AM.

[FinRedWing]

Is Crosby the best player in the world?
Does Tom Selleck have moustache?