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Bring back Dats-homer-Zetts line


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#21 Opie

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 02:01 PM

QUOTE (YoungGuns1340 @ March 17, 2008 - 01:03AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I dont care whos on the top 2 lines. But its apparent that it should be any combination of Flip, Franzen, Hank, Homer, Dats, and Cleary. Thats it.


Alright so lets say that one maybe two of those guys go down, injuries do happen in a physical sport.
What do the wings do then, forfeit the lines.

Ok your top two lines can go out but since we decided only 6 guys can play on our top two lines, our first line will be 3 players and the second will be 2.

So Hudler has no potential, Sammy (nevermind you won't get it, or me not agreeing with you will be seen as me being a sammy slappy or red wings homer).

But wasn't it just a couple of weeks ago that Franzen couldn't do anything, now he is on a hot streak and he is a legit top 6 forward. Come on dude, seriously.

"The more I know about people - the better I like my dog." - Mark Twain

"A wise man once told me, ‘Don’t argue with fools. Cause people from a distance can’t tell who is who'." Jay Z, Takeover

"When I was looking for a captain, I wanted a guy with the Red Wings crest tattooed on his chest," said former Detroit coach Jacques Demers, who named Yzerman captain in 1986. "Steve Yzerman was that guy."

“Told him if he wasn't ultra-competitive he couldn't come here. If he didn't bring it every day he couldn't come here, because he was going to hate it if he didn't, dislike the coach and dislike playing here.
“It's real straightforward. If you don't do it right, you're not happy here." Babcock

#22 Deke

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 02:28 PM

You can't just create one line and expect it to work every game. Teams have different styles of defense, and teams watch tape and figure out how to stop you.

As much as I like the Dats, Z, Homer line I like the creativity of changing the lines on the fly a whole lot more.

When Detroit played Edmonton in the playoffs, Babs kept rolling the same lines, with the exact same strategy over and over. I remember screaming at the screen wishing he'd swap out his lines and change up the strategy. Edmonton knew what he was going to do and it cost them an early exit.

Babcock learned from this and he plays a much more flexible style now. If a set line isn't working he swaps in different positions on the fly. He'll put half of a line out to make the opponent play a certain unit and then swap out the fowards.

Set lines (assuming everyone healthy) I would go with:

Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Franzen
Cleary, Filppula, Homer
Hudler, Sammuelson, Kopecky
McCarty/Downey , Draper, Maltby / Drake

Alternate lines in case those aren't working:

Zetterberg, Franzen, Homer (paired with Lidstrom and Kronwall, Gold medal powa)
Filppula, Datsyuk, Cleary

PP1
Zetterberg, Dats, Franzen, Lidstrom, Ralfi
PP2
Cleary, Filppula, Hudler, Kronwall, Stuart

Sammy should not be anywhere near a powerplay or PK line. When he has the puck, he does the same exact move every time. He puts his head down, draws the puck back once, bounches it off the back of his stuck and fires. He passes the puck too wildly and the receipent can't settle it down. On defense, dis poke check and defensive abilities are terrible and he's no hustle.

Edited by Deke, 17 March 2008 - 02:31 PM.


#23 mooose kiiisses

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 02:50 PM

Datsyuk - Zetterberg - Holmstrom
Franzen - Filppula - Cleary
McCarty - Draper - Maltby
Drake - Kopecky - Hudler

Downey - 13th spot.

Samuelsson - traded for a pile of broken hockey sticks.


Lidstrom - Rafalski
Kronwall - Stuart
Lilja - Chelios

Lebda - 7th spot


I can understand Babcock giving Sammy a shot, but it's time to face reality.
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell

#24 Opie

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 03:05 PM

I love you guys, seriously really I do.

You want to trade Sammy who is in the top 10 in G, A, and PTS yet D-mac who has yet to do SQUAT this year in the wings uni should be a starter.


LIVE IN THE NOW WAYNE!, LIVE IN THE NOW!

"The more I know about people - the better I like my dog." - Mark Twain

"A wise man once told me, ‘Don’t argue with fools. Cause people from a distance can’t tell who is who'." Jay Z, Takeover

"When I was looking for a captain, I wanted a guy with the Red Wings crest tattooed on his chest," said former Detroit coach Jacques Demers, who named Yzerman captain in 1986. "Steve Yzerman was that guy."

“Told him if he wasn't ultra-competitive he couldn't come here. If he didn't bring it every day he couldn't come here, because he was going to hate it if he didn't, dislike the coach and dislike playing here.
“It's real straightforward. If you don't do it right, you're not happy here." Babcock

#25 mooose kiiisses

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 03:25 PM

QUOTE (Opie @ March 17, 2008 - 04:05PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You want to trade Sammy who is in the top 10 in G, A, and PTS yet D-mac who has yet to do SQUAT this year in the wings uni should be a starter.


yeah i do. but that's just me.
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell

#26 Deke

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 03:27 PM

QUOTE (Opie @ March 17, 2008 - 03:05PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I love you guys, seriously really I do.

You want to trade Sammy who is in the top 10 in G, A, and PTS yet D-mac who has yet to do SQUAT this year in the wings uni should be a starter.


LIVE IN THE NOW WAYNE!, LIVE IN THE NOW!


Top 10 on the team, yea big woop. Put any hockey player with the talent detroit has and you are bound to score off of their opportunities. Sammy sure doesn't create his own.

Look I just don't like his style of play. He doesn't hustle. He fires low percentage shots. He doesn't complete passes well. He doesn't play D very well. He gets visibly pissed off at homer or franzen if they tip in one of his "slapshots". He does the same damn move every time he brings the puck in.

He might have some potential, but I don't see it or like the way he presents himself on the ice. It's almost like he tries harder to make it look like he's making an effort rather than making an actual effort. Try and just watching him when he's out. Don't follow the puck, watch sammy. Then watch another forward. You'll notice sammy's lack of hustle and overall just vanilla, no creativity, mediocre performance.

#27 Opie

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 12:11 PM

So because you don't like a player, the rest of us are idiots or stupid or whatever for thinking he could actually play in the NHL.

I have an idea, post a legit replacement for him.

I won't respond until you tell me what healthy wing/griffin/general should replace him as a top 6 forward.

"The more I know about people - the better I like my dog." - Mark Twain

"A wise man once told me, ‘Don’t argue with fools. Cause people from a distance can’t tell who is who'." Jay Z, Takeover

"When I was looking for a captain, I wanted a guy with the Red Wings crest tattooed on his chest," said former Detroit coach Jacques Demers, who named Yzerman captain in 1986. "Steve Yzerman was that guy."

“Told him if he wasn't ultra-competitive he couldn't come here. If he didn't bring it every day he couldn't come here, because he was going to hate it if he didn't, dislike the coach and dislike playing here.
“It's real straightforward. If you don't do it right, you're not happy here." Babcock

#28 Deke

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 01:45 PM

QUOTE (Opie @ March 18, 2008 - 12:11PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So because you don't like a player, the rest of us are idiots or stupid or whatever for thinking he could actually play in the NHL.

I have an idea, post a legit replacement for him.

I won't respond until you tell me what healthy wing/griffin/general should replace him as a top 6 forward.


Kopecky.

He doesn't have the stats to back it up yet, but I sure as hell like his play better than Sammy. Sammy gets to play with zetterburg. A turnip could get points playing with Z on it's wing. Give Kopecky the same shot Sammuelson had and I bet he puts up better numbers.

If I evaluate both players based on watching them play, rather than looking at stats on NHL.com. Kopecky is more hustle and doesn't take stupid bad angle shots. Maybe Kopecky wouldn't do as well once you gave him that same shot. But like I said, sammuelson isn't as good as his numbers might suggest, and his numbers suggest that he's not even that good to begin with.

That said, I really thought Sammuelson played very well in the last playoff series, I just haven't seen that same level of play this season.

#29 kylee

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 02:24 PM

QUOTE (Jeremy88 @ March 16, 2008 - 04:04PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Datsyuk is still getting points and playing well with his linemates...but Z and Sammy together is a waste of Z's talent. I've been saying that since Babs put them together. So when Cleary comes back, and it's a Franzen-Z-Cleary line...i think you'll start to see Z start producing more


Franzen - zetterberg - cleary

i like!

but what's the 1st line?

empty - datsyuk - holmstrom

#30 redwings56

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 02:26 PM

First of all deke, why isn't Homer on one of your powerplay units?

Secondly, Kopecky is playing each game to stay on the roster. He has great hustle because that is his role. Sammy (of course you haven't noticed) is showing great hustle.

You like his hustle last year's playoff round, and you haven't seen it since. Have you seen the last 12 games? Sammy showed hustle on Robidas 'own net' goal. Sammy hits like a little girl, but at least he is showing effort and hitting! He is playing his role perfectly right now. Great team guy, and he isn't doing the 'SAME' move anymore. He passes it well now. Wake up, I watch him on the ice everytime he is out there to see how poorly or well he is playing. He makes mistakes, every player is turning it over! Z turns it over, he hustles back, Z is a great player. Is Sammy lazy? yes, but he is turning his game around for a playoff run, good for him.

Kopecky probably would fit better with Z and the Mule, but Babs likes Sammy, and he is playing well right now. He doesn't do as much weaving and skates harder.

Great Season Datsyuk

#31 Deke

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 02:43 PM

QUOTE (redwings56 @ March 18, 2008 - 02:26PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
First of all deke, why isn't Homer on one of your powerplay units?

Secondly, Kopecky is playing each game to stay on the roster. He has great hustle because that is his role. Sammy (of course you haven't noticed) is showing great hustle.

You like his hustle last year's playoff round, and you haven't seen it since. Have you seen the last 12 games? Sammy showed hustle on Robidas 'own net' goal. Sammy hits like a little girl, but at least he is showing effort and hitting! He is playing his role perfectly right now. Great team guy, and he isn't doing the 'SAME' move anymore. He passes it well now. Wake up, I watch him on the ice everytime he is out there to see how poorly or well he is playing. He makes mistakes, every player is turning it over! Z turns it over, he hustles back, Z is a great player. Is Sammy lazy? yes, but he is turning his game around for a playoff run, good for him.

Kopecky probably would fit better with Z and the Mule, but Babs likes Sammy, and he is playing well right now. He doesn't do as much weaving and skates harder.


Woops, I miswrote HudlER in pp2 instead of HomER. Easy mistake.

One word: Consistency. Any time any coach is ever asked about a good player they will always mention how consistent they are, or how they always give 100% each game. Go read some Babcock quotes about Lidstrom, they are chock full of examples.

If Sammy can play well last playoffs, then why hasn't he played well more during the season? If he's played well these past few games, why hasn't he played well most of the season? I don't expect him to be great every game, but he shows potential and then just acts like he doesn't care. Read my previous posts about him. I just don't like the way he presents himself on the ice, I don't like his lack of hustle. I fully believe that he could be a better player, because I've seen it. My theory is the only reason why he's been playing well lately is he's getting threatened by all the roster changes and realizes he may lose his spot to a harder working player.

Maybe he doesn't do the same move as much, but he still does it when he crosses the blue line now and again. He plays with Datsyuk and Zetterberg for crying out loud. He can watch them and gain a couple of pointers about how to cross a blue line without a one-two deke, fire the puck wildly in the general direction of the goalie. I'd rather see him try new s*** and fail than watch him do the same move over and over that never works. Even if he is doing something different now, he's tried the same thing for about 65 games. If you try the same thing over and over and expect different results...

He has had a decent streak lately, but where is the consistency?

It's just like Osgood. Plays a great season, and then as soon as he gets a pay check, oops cold streak, sorry fellas. Maybe that's just a coincidence. Maybe I just don't like watching Sammy roll his eyes when someone tips in his shot and gets credited with the goal instead of him.

Edited by Deke, 18 March 2008 - 03:22 PM.


#32 redwings56

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 04:13 PM

QUOTE (Deke @ March 18, 2008 - 03:43PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Maybe I just don't like watching Sammy roll his eyes when someone tips in his shot and gets credited with the goal instead of him.


Fair enough. But come on now, lose the point about him rolling his eyes when someone tips his shot. I honestly would rather have him off the team, but that won't happen and when he plays well he should be credited for it.

Anyway your point is fair.

Great Season Datsyuk

#33 Shaman

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 04:56 PM

I personally think Sammy is filling Lang's old job really well, kind stands there, makes dumb shots but still eats minutes other players should be getting.
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