Ovechkin's Hart chances

[redwinger4747 6]

I just wanted to point out to everyone on its own thread that only THREE times in history, that is since 1924, has the Hart Trophy gone to a player whose team did not make the playoff:

Al Rollins, Chicago Black Hawks - 1954

Andy Bathgate, New York Rangers - 1959

Mario Lemieux, Pittsburgh Penguins - 1988

Despite how well he's played, history shows that it is extremely difficult to win the MVP when you miss the playoffs. He could become the fourth to do it, but it will be hard. Personally, I would vote for Malkin unless the Caps make the playoffs. I just feel your team must make the playoffs. Probably not that fair but thats how I see it.

[kylee 727]

to be fair though, im pretty sure the Caps are only a point out right now.

im actually rooting for the Caps to get into the playoffs.

Edited March 22, 2008 by kylee

[theman19 47]

I just wanted to point out to everyone on its own thread that only THREE times in history, that is since 1924, has the Hart Trophy gone to a player whose team did not make the playoff:

Al Rollins, Chicago Black Hawks - 1954

Andy Bathgate, New York Rangers - 1959

Mario Lemieux, Pittsburgh Penguins - 1988

Despite how well he's played, history shows that it is extremely difficult to win the MVP when you miss the playoffs. He could become the fourth to do it, but it will be hard. Personally, I would vote for Malkin unless the Caps make the playoffs. I just feel your team must make the playoffs. Probably not that fair but thats how I see it.

There is no way, i mean no way, the league gives the hart to Malkin before it can give it to crosby.

[#19=Legend 29]

Al Rollins, Chicago Black Hawks - 1954

Andy Bathgate, New York Rangers - 1959

Mario Lemieux, Pittsburgh Penguins - 1988

Alexander Ovechkin, Washington Capitals-2008

[DenJ91 0]

this is becoming ridiculous honestly. there are so many threads about this, i'm going to go as far as saying if you don't think ovechkin deserves the hart this year playoffs or not, than you don't know hockey. bash me all you want i don't care, ovechkin will easily win the hart. you should be embarrased of yourself if you think someone else should get it, it's not even close and don't honestly understand why this is even up for discussion at this point.

as someone else pointed out in the other ovechkin thread, that teams are so close to eachother for playoffs, within 5 pts or so, the caps are out by 1 pt right now. so are you willing to tell me that if the caps miss the playoffs by 1 pt, that he doesn't deserve it. that's just stupid. i could go on and on why he wins it and why others don't, but if it's not obvious, i feel sorry for you

[Barrie 900]

Even if Washington makes the playoffs, I think Malkin should get it. The Pens may win the Regular Season Eastern Conference Title, and Washington will finish 8th or 9th.

I've been complaining for years that the NHL favors the 5-8 seeds over 1-4, which is one of the reasons why ratings are low in the playoffs, so I'd rather see someone who helped his team win his division take home the MVP.

[arnoldbuck 0]

Even if Washington makes the playoffs, I think Malkin should get it. The Pens may win the Regular Season Eastern Conference Title, and Washington will finish 8th or 9th.

I've been complaining for years that the NHL favors the 5-8 seeds over 1-4, which is one of the reasons why ratings are low in the playoffs, so I'd rather see someone who helped his team win his division take home the MVP.

As wicked as AO has been this year, i'm actually inclined to agree. I doubt it will happen though. When Sid went down, I thought the Pens were going to drop from the scene. But Malkin stepped right up and filled that void. He has been amongst the scroing elite all year, and has been a beast for his team. As you mentioned, he has held them at a standard that has them amongst the top teams in the league.

It think by now, it is obvious it will be between Ovechkin, Malkin, Luongo, and an outside chance to Lidstrom. (not be a homer, his role on this team in undeniable)

That being said, if looking at the resent history of this award ... I imagine it will go to Ovechkin or Luongo.

[seeinred 1,488]

So what you guys are saying is that the best player in the world can't be the MVP if everyone else on his team blows? A player who's not as good/doesn't perform as well but has a better supporting cast should get it before him? That's ridiculous. It's not a team award, and it's not fair to punish someone because the team they're on isn't good enough. The NHL already does the opposite, by generally not giving it to players on teams that have too many good players (e.g. Lidstrom), which is also pretty stupid I think. Ovechkin has been far and away the best player in the NHL this year, and there's nothing you could say to convince me he doesn't deserve the Hart. Unfortunately I don't vote though.

And FWIW, I think the Caps will make the playoffs this year. AO showed last night how bad he wants it, and I think he'll still get them there. They could still take the 3rd seed with 2 games against Carolina left.

[arnoldbuck 0]

So what you guys are saying is that the best player in the world can't be the MVP if everyone else on his team blows? A player who's not as good/doesn't perform as well but has a better supporting cast should get it before him? That's ridiculous. It's not a team award, and it's not fair to punish someone because the team they're on isn't good enough. The NHL already does the opposite, by generally not giving it to players on teams that have too many good players (e.g. Lidstrom), which is also pretty stupid I think. Ovechkin has been far and away the best player in the NHL this year, and there's nothing you could say to convince me he doesn't deserve the Hart. Unfortunately I don't vote though.

And FWIW, I think the Caps will make the playoffs this year. AO showed last night how bad he wants it, and I think he'll still get them there. They could still take the 3rd seed with 2 games against Carolina left.

No, not at all. I just think that they best player should be able to elivate his team to the next level. Yes, without AO, the Caps would be bottom feeders, No doubt. But 9th spot isn't the next level he needs to get them to.

Don't get me wrong, I hope the make the playoffs. I really do.

[seeinred 1,488]

No, not at all. I just think that they best player should be able to elivate his team to the next level. Yes, without AO, the Caps would be bottom feeders, No doubt. But 9th spot isn't the next level he needs to get them to.

Don't get me wrong, I hope the make the playoffs. I really do.

But my point is there's only so much one man can do. Short of Jesus playing hockey, there are some teams that no player would be able to get into the playoffs by himself.

[DenJ91 0]

No, not at all. I just think that they best player should be able to elivate his team to the next level. Yes, without AO, the Caps would be bottom feeders, No doubt. But 9th spot isn't the next level he needs to get them to.

Don't get me wrong, I hope the make the playoffs. I really do.

there's only so much one guy can do. nylander went down, chris clark has been out almost all year, ovechkin has carried them team all season long. malkin has a good supporting cast even without crosby and i HIGHLY doubt the penquins would have been in that much trouble without crosby, just like it's shown because malkin is that good. but he didn't carry the team like ovie did/has. next level or not, he's the best player in the league, that's what the hart should stand for. carrying your team on your back in the playoffs or 1 pt out or being the worst team in the league it doesn't matter, he's the best. don't fault him for his team's play. there's a 40 pt gap between him and backstrom, if crosby was playing all season, he'd be leading the penquins in points. ovie leads the team in goals, pts, hits, is a +23, he leads them to comeback wins, he shows more emotion than anyone in the league. he's exciting to watch. he does everything you want a player to do. we probably won't see another season like this for a long time. i don't think he'll do this next year, he'll have more help as his team matures and they will get into the playoffs more so as a team, even if ovie does score 50 again next year. this is a remarkable season you are witnessing from him.

WHY IS THAT SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND!!?? i'm really starting to wonder about some people on these forums.

Edited March 22, 2008 by DenJ91

[MacK_Attack 108]

I'm inclined to give the nod to Malkin because he's carried the Pens to an elite level, while Ovechkin, as great as he has been, has only been able to muster up short stretches of success for the Caps.

As far as I'm concerned, when voting for an MVP, you have to take team success into account before individual success.

Give the Hart to Malkin, because he's the sole reason why the Pens are not down where the Caps are.

[LIDDYGIBBY5 1]

Making the playoffs is not criteria for the Heart trophy. It is "given to the player judged to be the most valuable to his team."

I challenge anyone to offer proof of any other player who has been more valuable to his team than AO. He has carried his team and put up crazy numbers while doing it. For those of you who think Malkin should get it, give me a break. What does he bring to his team that Ovechkin doesn't bring to the Capitals. If you are going to say a playoff spot, that means that you think that Malkin is the reason that the Pen will make the post season, once again I say, give me a break! Alex has more Goals, more points, a higher +/- ( on a worse team) fewer PIM, more PPG, more GWG and a higher ATOI.

Edited March 22, 2008 by LIDDYGIBBY5

[Doggy 130]

I'm inclined to give the nod to Malkin because he's carried the Pens to an elite level, while Ovechkin, as great as he has been, has only been able to muster up short stretches of success for the Caps.

As far as I'm concerned, when voting for an MVP, you have to take team success into account before individual success.

Give the Hart to Malkin, because he's the sole reason why the Pens are not down where the Caps are.

Come on Mack. I usually see you post some intelligent stuff on here. This ain't your best. To say Malkin is the SOLE reason is crazy. He had plenty more support than AO. Sykora, Malone, Conklin and Whitney among others all stepped it up when they had to.

Furthermore, the Caps could very well make the playoffs and the topic of the thread becomes moot.

[irishtemper14+25 11]

i think the order is AO, lids, malkin

[MacK_Attack 108]

Come on Mack. I usually see you post some intelligent stuff on here. This ain't your best. To say Malkin is the SOLE reason is crazy. He had plenty more support than AO. Sykora, Malone, Conklin and Whitney among others all stepped it up when they had to.

Furthermore, the Caps could very well make the playoffs and the topic of the thread becomes moot.

Sykora and Malone are playing the way they are because of Malkin. They were iffy all year until they got saddled with Malkin when Crosby went down, and I can't say I've been impressed AT ALL with how Whitney has played. Their defence is by far the weakest link on that team.

Fleury has been decent and Sabourin and Conklin held down the fort when M.A. was hurt, but that team wouldn't have done ANYTHING without Malkin. He carried them.

I also think there's something to be said for Malkin not only propping the team up without Crosby, but boosting it into contendership for the conference title.

To say AO is alone is a bit ludicrous. Guys like Viktor Kozlov, Alex Semin, Nick Backstrom, Mike Green etc. are not slouches, and they did have Nylander until he got hurt. Ovechkin is obviously far and away the best player on that team, but it's not like it's him and a bunch of fourth liners. I think the quality of the Washington team gets downplayed more than it should because some people are so quick to put Ovechkin up on a pedestal.

[Doggy 130]

Sykora and Malone are playing the way they are because of Malkin. They were iffy all year until they got saddled with Malkin when Crosby went down, and I can't say I've been impressed AT ALL with how Whitney has played. Their defence is by far the weakest link on that team.

Fleury has been decent and Sabourin and Conklin held down the fort when M.A. was hurt, but that team wouldn't have done ANYTHING without Malkin. He carried them.

I also think there's something to be said for Malkin not only propping the team up without Crosby, but boosting it into contendership for the conference title.

To say AO is alone is a bit ludicrous. Guys like Viktor Kozlov, Alex Semin, Nick Backstrom, Mike Green etc. are not slouches, and they did have Nylander until he got hurt. Ovechkin is obviously far and away the best player on that team, but it's not like it's him and a bunch of fourth liners. I think the quality of the Washington team gets downplayed more than it should because some people are so quick to put Ovechkin up on a pedestal.

Look man, I hold your opinions in very high regard as I think you're one of the most knowledgeable posters here. But I just can't agree with this.

In terms of offense, the Pens D contributes far more than the Caps. I'm not going to pull an Eva and load you up with stats but I'm pretty sure Gonchar, Whitney, Letang, etc. have put up more numbers than Poti, Green and Pothier.

They haven't really had good goaltending until Huet while Conklin was literally stealing games.

I'm not a massive fan of Ovechkin's but I just can't see how you think AO gets more help.

That being said, I wouldn't be pissed if Malkin got the Hart.

[redwinger4747 6]

Stop with the crap about the Hart going to the player "most valuable to his team," SERIOUSLY. Stop taking this literally! If you follow this, that means in the near future Crosby must be automatically disqualified every year in favor of Ovechkin because Ovechkin is more valuable to the Caps then Crosby is to the Pens. This is NOT how MVP awards work. It goes to the most valuable player TO HAVE ON A TEAM. I don't care what it says in the description.

[Doggy 130]

Stop with the crap about the Hart going to the player "most valuable to his team," SERIOUSLY. Stop taking this literally! If you follow this, that means in the near future Crosby must be automatically disqualified every year in favor of Ovechkin because Ovechkin is more valuable to the Caps then Crosby is to the Pens. This is NOT how MVP awards work. It goes to the most valuable player TO HAVE ON A TEAM. I don't care what it says in the description.

Thanks for clearing that up.

I guess the question becomes, why would they give the award a phoney description?

I guess this is the time of year that the NHL sends out the secret memo explaining that the award must go to "the most valuable player TO HAVE ON A TEAM" as opposed to the other one which is pretty much the same thing.

I probably shouldn't have wasted my time with this sarcastic post as it's just quicker to call you an idiot.

[Guest paveldatsukthenextsavard]

Making the playoffs is not criteria for the Heart trophy. It is "given to the player judged to be the most valuable to his team."

I challenge anyone to offer proof of any other player who has been more valuable to his team than AO. He has carried his team and put up crazy numbers while doing it. For those of you who think Malkin should get it, give me a break. What does he bring to his team that Ovechkin doesn't bring to the Capitals. If you are going to say a playoff spot, that means that you think that Malkin is the reason that the Pen will make the post season, once again I say, give me a break! Alex has more Goals, more points, a higher +/- ( on a worse team) fewer PIM, more PPG, more GWG and a higher ATOI.

i accept your challenge, how about nick lidstrom he's the number one defenseman on the number one defense in this country plays almost half of the time in a given game, always makes the right play, league leader in plus minus, number one offensive stats for a defenseman and when his injury coincided with a horrible losing streak.

he probably won't get it though cause the media are tools. we can argue about how to interpret the description of the award, but that won't get us anywhere, we know how the media has historically voted on these awards, and if the washington ovechkins do not make the playoffs his hart chances are drastically lowered.

[RyanBarnes! 293]

Al Rollins, Chicago Black Hawks - 1954

Andy Bathgate, New York Rangers - 1959

Mario Lemieux, Pittsburgh Penguins - 1988

Alexander Ovechkin, Washington Capitals-2008

Mmm, yes. Ovechkin must win. He's dominating.

[eva unit zero 271]

Those of you suggesting Malkin has been as valuable to the Pens as Ovechkin has been to the caps...

Just no.

Even though Crosby missed some time, Crosby has still played the majority of the season. The Pens without Crosby have a better lineup than the Caps with Ovechkin. So you consider that Ovechkin has outperformed Malkin with significantly worse teammates. When making that comparison, there is absolutely no way to come up with Malkin deserving the Hart. None.

[IceMunkee 15]

Those of you suggesting Malkin has been as valuable to the Pens as Ovechkin has been to the caps...

Just no.

Even though Crosby missed some time, Crosby has still played the majority of the season. The Pens without Crosby have a better lineup than the Caps with Ovechkin. So you consider that Ovechkin has outperformed Malkin with significantly worse teammates. When making that comparison, there is absolutely no way to come up with Malkin deserving the Hart. None.

Ya know, I have been kind of against the AO for Hart thing from the get go. I am a stickler for at least making the playoff's. On this point I totally agree with you, it is unfair to say that Malkin deserves it over AO. The Pens have a far better team then the Caps, far better. Malkin did rise to the occasion but not like AO did for the year.

Also, I like AO. Probably the most exciting player to watch on the ice at this time. I think he is very talented and does deserve recognition for his accomplishments this season. I am just not sure it is Hart quality. He has 60 goals, but is weak in the defensive side. Also I know everyone disagree's with this point but I think it is essential for the MVP to come from a playoff team. The Most Valuable Player should be able to not only relish in his own accomplishments but also elevate the team as well. If it were not HALF the league that obtains a playoff spot it could be justified.

All of this may be a moot point because the Caps have a real chance at getting into the playoff's. If the do grab that last spot, by all means he gets MVP. IF they can make it out of the first round then there is no doubt in my mind. The thing I am having trouble with is deciding who else deserves the Hart. Ofcourse with my craziness for the red and white I believe Lidstrom and possibly Datsyuk deserve at least a little consideration. Also if it is a great player making a bad team better then Nash should get some thought. I have really been racking my brain and just cannot think of some realistic options.

I also think there is a conspiracy against AO. The NHL wants Sid to be the number one guy. Sid got an ankle injury and it is all NHL network could wrap thier mouths around. AO hits 60 goals and he barely gets a five spot. So AO is already against the world.

[DenJ91 0]

i accept your challenge, how about nick lidstrom he's the number one defenseman on the number one defense in this country plays almost half of the time in a given game, always makes the right play, league leader in plus minus, number one offensive stats for a defenseman and when his injury coincided with a horrible losing streak.

he probably won't get it though cause the media are tools. we can argue about how to interpret the description of the award, but that won't get us anywhere, we know how the media has historically voted on these awards, and if the washington ovechkins do not make the playoffs his hart chances are drastically lowered.

givem me a break, you failed his challenge because you are a blinded homer. the wings are my squad and lidstrom is a fav of mine so no disrespect to either cause i'm a homer too but i'm not blind. lidstrom won't even finish top 3 in mvp voting rightfully so. he can take home the norris again though. first off there are alot of defensmen on teams that play nearly half the game and are part of good defenses. and to say that it was just him when the wings were on the losing streak is dumb, zetterberg was out at times, maltby, draper, hasek, holmstrom, kronwall, just about everyone at times was hurt. detroit has zetterberg, datysuk, holmstrom, hasek, osgood etc, aside from lidstrom, all of which are very important and half were all stars this year. to me, zetterberg and or datysuk are almost as important to the team as lidstrom is. the two night in and night out are relied apon for our offense. ovechkin goes down for say 20 games, and i highly doubt they are going to win much. not taking away anything from backstrom and semin and viktor kozlov but they aren't going to put up numbers like either Z or dats would. nylander has been out for a while and they have still been winning. their captain chris clark who is very important to the caps has been out almost all year. the caps have depth too, but not explosive depth. backstrom is around 40pts behind ovechkin in points and he's played all season. malkin is around 30 pts ahead of crosby, but crosby has been hurt. if crosby had been playing all this time, he'd be leading the way, and we wouldn't be talking about malkin as much and i would say malkin would have around 80pts right now instead of the 98 or whatever he has. zetterberg and datsyuk have similar stats and are among the top 10 in scoring i think, lidstrom is number 1 in pts among dmen, so it's clear who's more valuable. some nights if not not 50% of the nights, ovechkin carried the team to victory one way or the other whether it's scoring, pumping up the team with his celebrations or making a big hit.

i've said this before but i honestly can't believe this is even an issue. those of you who think you MUST make the playoffs to win the hart need to wake up. i garauntee ovie wins the hart by a landslide. brodeur possibly 2nd and malkin 3rd. the devils with almost any other goalie aren't in the playoffs most seasons, they just don't score enough goals., and they don't have the stacked defense they once had.

icemunkee, you think malkin's defesensive abilities are top notch then over ovechkin's? i don't think so. ovie is a +23, that's pretty impressive. he is trusted enough to go on the ice when the other team pulls the goalie for the extra man. i'm sure it has to do with his explosiveness and want for the puck to score the empty net, but you also have to be responsible in that situation. i mean if a forward has to have every quality to win the hart, that's being alittle over the top. i mean how is that fair when goalies just have to stop the puck right? should they have to have more than 4 assists and score a goal. of course i'm just being sarcastic but save the defensive side for the selke trophy, that's why it exists. plus i don't think there is a conspiracy against ovie, he gets tons of media coverage.

Edited March 23, 2008 by DenJ91

[wingslogo19 281]

Im thinking his chances are pretty good, and I want to see the Caps make the playoffs