DenJ91 0 Report post Posted March 25, 2008 Hey, why don't a few of the "Crosby lovers/haters" in this thread make your own thread up about him and then you can like/love/hate/ him in it till he wins a cup or two. I was hoping this thread would be about picks or players that received a lot of hype but never panned out If anyone thinks winning an Art Ross and a Hart is "not panning out" then they should just go hit themselves in the head with a large hammer till they can't feel it anymore. Now back on topic; a couple players that I remember who went fairly high in the draft but never accomplished much in the NHL were Joe Murphy and Pavel Brendl. The Wings took Murphy fairly high in the draft (1st overall, lol) and had really high hopes for him but he didn't work out for them and ended up being shipped off to Edmonton and then Chicago where he had a few moderately successful seasons but never lived up to the "1st Overall" tag. Brendl had an amazing WHL career and was drafted by the Rangers (then dealt to Flyers) fairly high (4th overall) as well. He was a huge disappointment for them after being compared to Pavel Bure and Alex Mogilny while in Junior. He scored 73, 59 and 40 goals in 3 seasons with the Calgary Hitmen so you can see where the scouts might have got the idea he would be an elite scorer in the NHL. believe me, like i said earlier i didn't start this thread thinking someone would be so dumb as to mention crosby. i've been trying all night to let it die, in fact i'm probably not helping by even mentioning this now. but thanks at least for going back to topic. NO ONE post anything more about crosby in here starting now., imisssergei can start his/her own thread about the very disappointing crosby. lol ok i mean starting....now!! haha Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zombiewing 3 Report post Posted March 25, 2008 . Now back on topic; a couple players that I remember who went fairly high in the draft but never accomplished much in the NHL were Joe Murphy and Pavel Brendl. The Wings took Murphy fairly high in the draft (1st overall, lol) and had really high hopes for him but he didn't work out for them and ended up being shipped off to Edmonton and then Chicago where he had a few moderately successful seasons but never lived up to the "1st Overall" tag. Brendl had an amazing WHL career and was drafted by the Rangers (then dealt to Flyers) fairly high (4th overall) as well. He was a huge disappointment for them after being compared to Pavel Bure and Alex Mogilny while in Junior. He scored 73, 59 and 40 goals in 3 seasons with the Calgary Hitmen so you can see where the scouts might have got the idea he would be an elite scorer in the NHL. Yeah, a few people thought that Murphy would be a Wendel Clark kind of player-soft hands, hard fists. He just seemed disinterested, as alot of hyped players are. I do remember him going crazy a few times, like jumping over the boards to maul somebody. I think that he had a few run ins with the law. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DenJ91 0 Report post Posted March 25, 2008 since this is my thread i compiled the list of players named collectively by everyone thus far so those of you still reading the thread or reading for the first time can skip over the lunacy in pages 3-5. eric daze brett lindros keith and brent gretzky fedor fedorov alexander daigle jim carrey boyd devereaux petr klima patrik stefan igor grigorenko stan chistov dan blackburn radek bonk chris gratton viktor kozlov pat falloon joe juneau zac bierk rico fata brian lawton claude boivin link gaetz pavel brendl maxim afinogenov merely people's opinions, some could be argued of course about being actual disappointments but i agree on about 90% of them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zombiewing 3 Report post Posted March 25, 2008 since this is my thread i compiled the list of players named collectively by everyone thus far so those of you still reading the thread or reading for the first time can skip over the lunacy in pages 3-5. merely people's opinions, some could be argued of course about being actual disappointments but i agree on about 90% of them. good list. joey juneau-quick rise, quicker fall. slick passer when on, but just 'was not there'. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest QuackQuack Report post Posted March 25, 2008 (edited) Chistov is disappointing? He didn't wash out of the league, he just went to Russia for more money. If we're going down that road, I guess you could throw Aleskey "I only score on Brodeur" Morozov into the mix. EDIT: Dan Blackburn was pretty solid playing on some terrible Rangers teams. He had a few severe injuries that forced him into the AHL.. If I remember correctly, he can no longer play with a glove because of an injury. He uses two blockers. Edited March 25, 2008 by QuackQuack Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
58Miles2Joe 12 Report post Posted March 25, 2008 Yashin Could guys like Straka, Allison and Deadmarsh count? i.e. disappeared due to injuries... oh, and how 'bout Brad Stuart Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doggy 130 Report post Posted March 25, 2008 Many probably haven't heard of him but I was very disappointed in Hugh Jessiman. He is a Rangers prospect playing for Hartford. I really thought he'd make a big impact and be a solid power forward. So far, he hasn't even been able to crack the NHL. I really thought he would have well and truly by now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shaman 713 Report post Posted March 25, 2008 Hudler, Lang when he was in a wings jersey, Hull whenever you put a mike infront of his face. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eva unit zero 271 Report post Posted March 25, 2008 For all the top disappointments in recent history...let's take a look at the top ten draft picks each year from 1985 to 1992 for now, as almost all of the best players drafted after 1992 are yet to complete their careers and the rankings of such draft classes could be inaccurate and lead to falsely identified disappointments. We'll say that any player taken top ten who wasn't among the top six forwards, four defensemen, or two goaltenders from his draft class are major disappointments. So listed, by draft year, are the top 6/4/2 and the disappointments. 1985 Top Forwards: Joe Nieuwendyk, Wendel Clark, Craig Simpson, Ulf Dahlen, Derek King, Nelson Emerson Top Defensemen: Calle Johansson, Steve Chiasson, Fredrik Olausson, Dave Manson Top Goalies: Mike Richter, Bill Ranford Top-10 Disappointments: Craig Wolanin, Jim Sandlak, Dana Murzyn, Brad Dalgarno, Brent Fedyk, Craig Duncanson, Dan Gratton 1986 Top Forwards: Vincent Damphousse, Craig Janney, Scott Young, Adam Graves, Jimmy Carson, Joe Murphy Top Defensemen: Brian Leetch, Teppo Numminen, Zarley Zalapski, Jyrki Lumme Top Goalies: Ron Tugnutt, Tim Cheveldae Top-10 Disappointments: Neil Brady, Shawn Anderson, Dan Woodley, Pat Elynuik, Jocelyn Lemieux 1987 Top Forwards: Joe Sakic, Brendan Shanahan, Pierre Turgeon, Theoren Fleury, John Leclair, Andrew Cassels Top Defensemen: Mathieu Schneider, Glen Wesley, Bryan Marchment, Luke Richardson Top Goalies: Guy Hebert, Jeff Hackett Top-10 Disappointments: Wayne McBean, Chris Joseph, Dave Archibald, Jimmy Waite, Bryan Fogarty, Jayson More 1988 Top Forwards: Mark Recchi, Teemu Selanne, Jeremy Roenick, Rod Brind'Amour, Mike Modano, Alexander Mogilny Top Defensemen: Rob Blake, Bret Hedican, Keith Carney, Curtis Leschyshyn Top Goalies: Wade Flaherty, Stephane Fiset Top-10 Disappointments: Trevor Linden, Darrin Shannon, Daniel Dore, Scott Pearson, Martin Gelinas 1989 Top Forwards: Sergei Fedorov, Mats Sundin, Pavel Bure, Bill Guerin, Bobby Holik, Robert Reichel Top Defensemen: Nicklas Lidstrom, Vladimir Konstantinov, Adam Foote, Vladimir Malakhov Top Goalies: Olaf Kolzig, Byron Dafoe Top-10 Disappointments: Dave Chyzowski, Scott Thornton, Stu Barnes, Adam Bennett, Doug Zmolek, Jason Herter, Jason Marshall 1990 Top Forwards: Jaromir Jagr, Doug Weight, Keith Tkachuk, Peter Bondra, Owen Nolan, Slava Kozlov Top Defensemen: Sergei Zubov, Darryl Sydor, Derian Hatcher, Jason York Top Goalies: Martin Brodeur, Felix Potvin Top-10 Disappointments: Petr Nedved, Keith Primeau, Mike Ricci, Scott Scissons, John Slaney, Drake Berehowsky 1991 Top Forwards: Peter Forsberg, Eric Lindros, Alexei Kovalev, Markus Naslund, Ray Whitney, Zigmund Palffy Top Defensemen: Scott Niedermayer, Alexei Zhitnik, Philippe Boucher, Richard Matvichuk Top Goalies: Chris Osgood, Steve Shields Top-10 Disappointments: Pat Falloon, Scott Lachance, Aaron Ward, Alek Stojanov, Patrick Poulin, Martin Lapointe 1992 Top Forwards: Alexei Yashin, Martin Straka, Cory Stillman, Jere Lehtinen, Michael Peca, Anson Carter Top Defensemen: Roman Hamrlik, Sergei Gonchar, Mattias Norstrom, Adrian Aucoin Top Goalies: Nikolai Khabibulin, Jim Carey Top-10 Disappointments: Mike Rathje, Todd Warriner, Darius Kasparaitis, Ryan Sittler, Brandon Convery, Robert Petrovicky, Andrei Nazarov Comments: The top ten sure didn't seem to be a sure thing in the years sampled...although forwards from 87-91 could have been very good and still come out as a disappointment by this metric - Linden, Nedved, and Primeau all would have made the 'top 6' in 1985, 86, or 92's draft class, and many others, but are labeled as disappointments because they didn't in their own year. Also oddly, in the years sampled...Jimmy Waite was the only goaltender taken in the top 10. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
digitaljohn88 4 Report post Posted March 25, 2008 (edited) Jim Carey for sure. He won the Vezina out of nowhere, then his career just trailed off. He had the natural ability but not the drive of an NHL goalie. He had enough money to invest and live on, and quit hockey at 24. Edited March 25, 2008 by digitaljohn88 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DenJ91 0 Report post Posted March 25, 2008 Yashin Could guys like Straka, Allison and Deadmarsh count? i.e. disappeared due to injuries... oh, and how 'bout Brad Stuart i personally don't consider any of these players disappointments. all of them have had successful careers. straka is playing for the rangers now of course and has put up some good numbers there recently. yashin was an elite player for many years, he left for russia because he wanted more money. to quackquack, yes chistov is a disappointment in my opinion. had lots of promise, never quite lived up to anything. obviously if he could get more money in russia, that means that teams didn't have interest in him to play here. i liked him, but he could have done/been alot more in the nhl. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DenJ91 0 Report post Posted March 25, 2008 For all the top disappointments in recent history...let's take a look at the top ten draft picks each year from 1985 to 1992 for now, as almost all of the best players drafted after 1992 are yet to complete their careers and the rankings of such draft classes could be inaccurate and lead to falsely identified disappointments. We'll say that any player taken top ten who wasn't among the top six forwards, four defensemen, or two goaltenders from his draft class are major disappointments. So listed, by draft year, are the top 6/4/2 and the disappointments. 1985 Top Forwards: Joe Nieuwendyk, Wendel Clark, Craig Simpson, Ulf Dahlen, Derek King, Nelson Emerson Top Defensemen: Calle Johansson, Steve Chiasson, Fredrik Olausson, Dave Manson Top Goalies: Mike Richter, Bill Ranford Top-10 Disappointments: Craig Wolanin, Jim Sandlak, Dana Murzyn, Brad Dalgarno, Brent Fedyk, Craig Duncanson, Dan Gratton 1986 Top Forwards: Vincent Damphousse, Craig Janney, Scott Young, Adam Graves, Jimmy Carson, Joe Murphy Top Defensemen: Brian Leetch, Teppo Numminen, Zarley Zalapski, Jyrki Lumme Top Goalies: Ron Tugnutt, Tim Cheveldae Top-10 Disappointments: Neil Brady, Shawn Anderson, Dan Woodley, Pat Elynuik, Jocelyn Lemieux 1987 Top Forwards: Joe Sakic, Brendan Shanahan, Pierre Turgeon, Theoren Fleury, John Leclair, Andrew Cassels Top Defensemen: Mathieu Schneider, Glen Wesley, Bryan Marchment, Luke Richardson Top Goalies: Guy Hebert, Jeff Hackett Top-10 Disappointments: Wayne McBean, Chris Joseph, Dave Archibald, Jimmy Waite, Bryan Fogarty, Jayson More 1988 Top Forwards: Mark Recchi, Teemu Selanne, Jeremy Roenick, Rod Brind'Amour, Mike Modano, Alexander Mogilny Top Defensemen: Rob Blake, Bret Hedican, Keith Carney, Curtis Leschyshyn Top Goalies: Wade Flaherty, Stephane Fiset Top-10 Disappointments: Trevor Linden, Darrin Shannon, Daniel Dore, Scott Pearson, Martin Gelinas 1989 Top Forwards: Sergei Fedorov, Mats Sundin, Pavel Bure, Bill Guerin, Bobby Holik, Robert Reichel Top Defensemen: Nicklas Lidstrom, Vladimir Konstantinov, Adam Foote, Vladimir Malakhov Top Goalies: Olaf Kolzig, Byron Dafoe Top-10 Disappointments: Dave Chyzowski, Scott Thornton, Stu Barnes, Adam Bennett, Doug Zmolek, Jason Herter, Jason Marshall 1990 Top Forwards: Jaromir Jagr, Doug Weight, Keith Tkachuk, Peter Bondra, Owen Nolan, Slava Kozlov Top Defensemen: Sergei Zubov, Darryl Sydor, Derian Hatcher, Jason York Top Goalies: Martin Brodeur, Felix Potvin Top-10 Disappointments: Petr Nedved, Keith Primeau, Mike Ricci, Scott Scissons, John Slaney, Drake Berehowsky 1991 Top Forwards: Peter Forsberg, Eric Lindros, Alexei Kovalev, Markus Naslund, Ray Whitney, Zigmund Palffy Top Defensemen: Scott Niedermayer, Alexei Zhitnik, Philippe Boucher, Richard Matvichuk Top Goalies: Chris Osgood, Steve Shields Top-10 Disappointments: Pat Falloon, Scott Lachance, Aaron Ward, Alek Stojanov, Patrick Poulin, Martin Lapointe 1992 Top Forwards: Alexei Yashin, Martin Straka, Cory Stillman, Jere Lehtinen, Michael Peca, Anson Carter Top Defensemen: Roman Hamrlik, Sergei Gonchar, Mattias Norstrom, Adrian Aucoin Top Goalies: Nikolai Khabibulin, Jim Carey Top-10 Disappointments: Mike Rathje, Todd Warriner, Darius Kasparaitis, Ryan Sittler, Brandon Convery, Robert Petrovicky, Andrei Nazarov Comments: The top ten sure didn't seem to be a sure thing in the years sampled...although forwards from 87-91 could have been very good and still come out as a disappointment by this metric - Linden, Nedved, and Primeau all would have made the 'top 6' in 1985, 86, or 92's draft class, and many others, but are labeled as disappointments because they didn't in their own year. Also oddly, in the years sampled...Jimmy Waite was the only goaltender taken in the top 10. wow, nice post eva. that's dedication! do you really feel players like trevor linden, martin gelinas, stu barnes, nedved, keith primeau, mike ricci are disappointments? i think all of them played well or had a certain role like ricci throughout their careers. linden was an iron man, gelinas has a couple cup rings and nedved was a good player although streaky. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest GordieSid&Ted Report post Posted March 25, 2008 Ok, so I see your point now. You don't agree with my opinion, hence it's wrong. I get it. Since your opinion is different, my is wrong. The world makes sense now. Thanks for clearing that up for me. Hey everyone, Crosby is the second coming of christ, DenJ91 said so. The point is that some opinions are just ******* stupid. Its so obvious that your opinion is based on some personal bias and opposed to being reality based. Whatever, you think Crosby should have had the Pens beating the Eastern Conference champs in the first round. And because he didn't he's a dissapointment. What's funny is you bring up names like Gonchar, Roberts and Laraque. Laraque? Yeah, he's a regular playoff MVP. Roberts was like 40. That's not the point. Crosby put up 5 points in 5 games. Marc Andre Fleury had never been in the playoffs before and he was supposed to beat Ottawa? What was Crosby supposed to do, single handedly beat Ottawa? Should he have played goaltender? Maybe he could've played 60 minutes a night and never left the ice. Instead of looking at how strong the Senators were and how young and inexperienced the Penguins were and instead of looking at Crosby's individual play you are basing your opinion that he's a dissapointment because of hype. You aren't basing your opinion on the matchups or any other real world factors. Your opinion is based on media hype? I may be an asshat, which is totally fine in my book. Because being an ass is so, so much better than being a fuggin' moron. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
toby91_ca 620 Report post Posted March 25, 2008 So tell me what I should base my opinion of Crosby on? Please, I'd love to hear this. What you are implying is that I am wrong for basing my opinion of Crosby on what he has done, and not what he could do. That is absurd. It's like still holding out hope for Brendl. I mean, after all, he could come back the NHL and dominate, couldn't he? Everyone knows he is washed up, and playing in Sweden for a reason. Come on, seriously, give me one good reason why I shouldn't base my opinion of Crosby on what Crosby has done. And no, what other players have done doesn't mean jack. You should base it on what he has done: Records Pittsburgh Penguins' franchise record for assists in a season by a rookie (63) Pittsburgh Penguins' franchise record for points in a season by a rookie (102) First rookie to record 100 points and 100 penalty minutes in a season Youngest player in NHL history to record 100 points in a season Youngest player in NHL history to record 200 career points (19 years and 207 days) Youngest player in NHL history to have 2 consecutive 100 point seasons.[1][2] Youngest player to be voted to the NHL All-Star Game[43] Youngest player in NHL history to win the Art Ross Trophy[7] Youngest player in NHL history to win the Lester B. Pearson Award[27] Youngest player in NHL history to be named to the First All-Star Team[29] Opinions are simply opinions and if your opinion is that he is not the best or top 2 or top 3, I don't have a problem with that, but for you to have an opinion that he has been a disappointment is very, very odd if you ask me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
toby91_ca 620 Report post Posted March 25, 2008 Again, the Pens were a playoff team without Crosby, so having Crosby on the team didn't take the team any further. That's funny, I thought last year was the first time in 6 years that the Pens made the playoffs. Took Mario 5 years before his team made the playoffs. Wayne wasn't able to bring the mighty Oilers out of the 1st round his first trip. I could go on and on and on. To think someone is disappointing because (at the age of 19), he couldn't take his team past the first round is borderline insane. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
toby91_ca 620 Report post Posted March 25, 2008 That's funny, I was under the impression that between Roberts, Laraque, and Gonchar not only was there playoff experience, but a few Cups as well. Your impression is impaired. Roberts won one cup (about 20 years ago), he's an old man. Laraque's playoff experience is a benefit? Did he even play any of their playoff games last year (I think he played a few minutes in game 1, that's it). An Gonchar, well, he was one of the worst players in the playoffs last year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DenJ91 0 Report post Posted March 25, 2008 gordieside and toby91, you're bringing crosby up again, booooo. haha. even though you're tearing him apart again, imisssergei knows he's been owned, we've dropped it. back to the topic. lol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HOCKEY MATTERS 167 Report post Posted March 25, 2008 Wow. When I first saw this thread...6 pages...I thought "cool. 6 pages of on topic discussion about different players....." I am so naieve sometimes. Same handful of posters hijacking another thread instead of starting one on the topic they want to switch it to. Then comes the name-calling and swearing. So predictable. That's why there are more lurkers than posters. the thread starter even tried several times to get it back on-topic and was ignored. STOP HIJACKING THREADS. moosefarts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
toby91_ca 620 Report post Posted March 25, 2008 gordieside and toby91, you're bringing crosby up again, booooo. haha. even though you're tearing him apart again, imisssergei knows he's been owned, we've dropped it. back to the topic. lol I'm actually completely done with discussing Crosby now. Unless I see something that is just so misleading or plain wrong, I won't bother getting involved, it's a waste of time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eva unit zero 271 Report post Posted March 25, 2008 wow, nice post eva. that's dedication! do you really feel players like trevor linden, martin gelinas, stu barnes, nedved, keith primeau, mike ricci are disappointments? i think all of them played well or had a certain role like ricci throughout their careers. linden was an iron man, gelinas has a couple cup rings and nedved was a good player although streaky. Linden only fell into the 'disappointment' category because he wasn't one of the six best forwards in th edraft that year, but went in the top ten at second overall. It's not so much that he was a disappointment, but that his draft year was very deep in terms of top level forwards. It's the only year I listed with six 1000-point scorers. The thing is, I laid down the criteria before I made up the lists, so that I wouldn't be looking at it and saying 'I think this guy was a disappointment, what criteria fit that argument?' I tried to set a reasonable standard...a player taken in the top ten is expected to be one of the best at his position in the draft. I allowed for a player to be 'top two' for any of the six positions on the ice, hence 6 forwards, 4 defensemen, and 2 goalies. Linden and Gelinas, while solid players, were taken in the top 10 and didn't fall into that category. The key to landing in the 'disappointment' category on that list is not so much being a bad player, but not being among the top players at your position despite a draft position that indicates you should be. Because generally, that's how players end up labeled as disappointments. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DenJ91 0 Report post Posted March 25, 2008 Linden only fell into the 'disappointment' category because he wasn't one of the six best forwards in th edraft that year, but went in the top ten at second overall. It's not so much that he was a disappointment, but that his draft year was very deep in terms of top level forwards. It's the only year I listed with six 1000-point scorers. The thing is, I laid down the criteria before I made up the lists, so that I wouldn't be looking at it and saying 'I think this guy was a disappointment, what criteria fit that argument?' I tried to set a reasonable standard...a player taken in the top ten is expected to be one of the best at his position in the draft. I allowed for a player to be 'top two' for any of the six positions on the ice, hence 6 forwards, 4 defensemen, and 2 goalies. Linden and Gelinas, while solid players, were taken in the top 10 and didn't fall into that category. The key to landing in the 'disappointment' category on that list is not so much being a bad player, but not being among the top players at your position despite a draft position that indicates you should be. Because generally, that's how players end up labeled as disappointments. gotcha, i see what what your saying. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest nutz2u Report post Posted March 25, 2008 Another phucking Crosby thread. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest QuackQuack Report post Posted March 25, 2008 i personally don't consider any of these players disappointments. all of them have had successful careers. straka is playing for the rangers now of course and has put up some good numbers there recently. yashin was an elite player for many years, he left for russia because he wanted more money. to quackquack, yes chistov is a disappointment in my opinion. had lots of promise, never quite lived up to anything. obviously if he could get more money in russia, that means that teams didn't have interest in him to play here. i liked him, but he could have done/been alot more in the nhl. He left after his rookie contract expired, after being traded to the Bruins. At that point Chistov didn't accomplish much in his short NHL career and wasn't exactly on pace for a huge RFA contract. He got more cash to play in Russia so he left. Same can be said for Svitov. Both players will be back eventually. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shaman 713 Report post Posted March 25, 2008 To start some discussion again, Manny Legace, Why? because he was never able to take that next step from back up to starting goalie. He had a great season with us as our starter, then let in some weak goals when the pressure was on in the playoffs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Never_Retire_Steve 35 Report post Posted March 25, 2008 Jesse Wallin Was a local boy and I followed his junior career very closely and his WJC performances. Captained Canada to their 5th straight gold medal in the 90s and was drafted in the first round by who........... THE DETROIT RED WINGS!!! Unfortunately having the depth the Wings did and some setbacks due to injuries he hardly had a career to speak of. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
