Trotz says that Z's goal shouldn't have counted

[homertime 0]

The bottom line is the refs missed the call. It was offsides and should've been blown dead.

All this crying about a goal for us being taken away earlier in the year is so much crybaby, hypocritial bulls***.

I swear, some Wings fans will say and do anything to legitimize screw ups that are in favor of the wings.

People, just call a ******* spade a spade. This screw up has nothing to do with the past.

The refs missed the call, the play should've been blown dead. It wasn't. We benefited. Be thankful that we did.

Nothing legitimizes the fact that the refs blew this call. Nothing in the past makes this blown call ok. They screwed up. Frankly, I don't care and i'll take it.

Normally I tend to agree with what you say but it doesnt seem as though you even watched a replay on this. I watched the replay about 20 times in slow-motion and it looks like the linesman moved back into neutral ice after getting hit with the puck (while standing over the blueline). So at best this was an iffy (although I think completely correct) call.

calfan--- As for the trip you think should have been called, that was a follow-through on Z's poke-check that got the puck to Pav, so since he hit the puck first it was completely legal.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Normally I tend to agree with what you say but it doesnt seem as though you even watched a replay on this. I watched the replay about 20 times in slow-motion and it looks like the linesman moved back into neutral ice after getting hit with the puck (while standing over the blueline). So at best this was an iffy (although I think completely correct) call.

calfan--- As for the trip you think should have been called, that was a follow-through on Z's poke-check that got the puck to Pav, so since he hit the puck first it was completely legal.

You're right, I haven't busted out my Zapruder film on this. But I tivo'd the game and watched it enough times to think that the call could've gone either way.

I look at it this way, if that had happened to us people here would scream and ***** and we'd never hear the end of it. That's a fact and everyone here knows it. The bitching would be endless.

The call went in our favor so it must've been a legit call, right? I don't have to watch the replay a million times. When I watched the play happen live I thought it was offside immediately. When the announcers were wondering what the Preds bench was complaining about I thought it was because the play was offside. My point is that it was close enough, and with the puck hitting the linesman and giving an unfair advantage I thought the play should've been blown dead.

Hey, i'll take it. I'll take any missed call that goes in our favor. But that doesn't mean i'm going to put my blinders on and just assume the Preds don't have a legit beef. I leave that behavior up to the homers around here.

[seeinred 1,488]

I totally agree. It should've been whistled dead. I don't know about the trip on Weber but whatever, the play probably should've been whistled. It wasn't. It was a LUCKY break for the wings no matter how you shake it out.

You just have to remember that there are quite a few completely biased, incapable of objective thought homers around here. It is a Wings forum afterall (which is what i've been told a million times by the homers).

Anyway, it was a lucky break. We would cry and ***** about it too if it went against us. If Preds fans are truly letting it go as you say, then they have a step up on Wings fans because people around here would be bitching about this through 2009.

You just love to bust that one out

Regardless, there's nothing to be a homer about if the puck never left the zone. Not saying it 100% didn't, I'm just saying I'm not convinced yet.

Edited April 11, 2008 by SeeinRed

[umredwing11 2]

Maybe Trotz should stop biatching about the previous game and pay attention to the next one? We've all been screwed over by the refs at one point, this is the Stanley Cup playoffs and it isn't one game elimination. If you are so mad, transfer that anger into making your team play a bit more inspired for the next game--not whining to the media. Ugh.

[wingedwheeler12 0]

Maybe Trotz should stop biatching about the previous game and pay attention to the next one? We've all been screwed over by the refs at one point, this is the Stanley Cup playoffs and it isn't one game elimination. If you are so mad, transfer that anger into making your team play a bit more inspired for the next game--not whining to the media. Ugh.

Im ready for the next game.. trotz needs some cheese with his whine. seriously - it gets sooo erratating, you get to hear him gripe just because the preds lost. at least thats what it seems like, he is a ranter and rambler. he is just upset they lost pure and simple. lets move on, next game will be the bomb im sure.

[HockeyCrazy3033 168]

Oh geez. Now if we ended up winning the series all we are going to hear about is how that goal should have never counted and how the series could of been different. bla bla bla.

[Guest wingsin08]

:violin: please....."trotz" your way back to nashville

[wingslogo19 281]

The NHL officiating made a "wrong call'?

And a coach bitched about it?

My Lord.

I thought that never happend

[Icteria virens 11]

Yeah I think Trotz should go have a talk with Arsene Wenger to learn how to waaaaaeeeeh properly...

carefull now!!!! that's Le Professor you're talking about.

of course, nobody else on these boards knows who Wenger is... or are you just mad b/c he let Freddie Ljungberg (spelling?) go to West Ham????

[Echolalia 2,961]

The entire play was never offsides. The ref was standing with both feet on either side of the blue line when it hit him in the side. That part of his body was still in the zone. Also, the puck has to leave the blue paint to be offsides- not just entering it, so the puck would've had to be closer to the other side of his body if it were actually to be offsides.

Trotz arguing the call is something any coach would do. At the very least that way he can still keep his team's composure in thinking they are still good enough to beat us.

[Gizmo 21]

You're right, I haven't busted out my Zapruder film on this. But I tivo'd the game and watched it enough times to think that the call could've gone either way.

I look at it this way, if that had happened to us people here would scream and ***** and we'd never hear the end of it. That's a fact and everyone here knows it. The bitching would be endless.

The call went in our favor so it must've been a legit call, right? I don't have to watch the replay a million times. When I watched the play happen live I thought it was offside immediately. When the announcers were wondering what the Preds bench was complaining about I thought it was because the play was offside. My point is that it was close enough, and with the puck hitting the linesman and giving an unfair advantage I thought the play should've been blown dead.

Hey, i'll take it. I'll take any missed call that goes in our favor. But that doesn't mean i'm going to put my blinders on and just assume the Preds don't have a legit beef. I leave that behavior up to the homers around here.

I think it's perfectly possible to support the "no-call" without being a homer. What matters isn't what's "fair" or "unfair" to one team or another, it boils down to what the rules say and the basic concepts of officiating. Pucks often take bad/good bounces off of officials. If the lineman had been one foot inside the line when he got hit Trotz wouldn't have been upset and this thread wouldn't even exist. The only question is if the puck hit the guy inside or outside of the zone. There's no definitive shot that answers this question. This issue boils down to inches. So if no camera can deduce the right call, and none of the four guys with whistles could tell for sure, what should have happened?

One of the worst things any official can do in any sport is interject themselves into the game based on a guess. You'll hear this in officiating schools and clinics. Don't call it unless you see it and have a good look at it. It's better to error on the side of discretion and let the game play itself out than to guess a call, get it wrong, and then alter the game as a result. A prime example of this was the Wings' second game against Chicago this season. Late in the game, away from the puck, Lilja put this stick on top of a Blackhawk's stick to pin it down. The Chicago player's stick must have been unknowingly cracked on its shaft because the second Lilja pinned it, the stick literally fell in two pieces. The Chicago player dropped the stub of a shaft, raised his hands and tried to sell the call. One of the refs looked over, saw the stick lying in two, the Blackhawk acting indignant, and called Lilja for "slashing". On the resulting PP, Lang scored the game winner. The ref "guessed" the call wrong and affected the outcome of the game because it appears he "thought" it was a slash.

While I certainly agree that we were the beneficiary of some bad calls last night (the Bonk phantom hook is Exhibit A), I don't agree that Z's first goal was one of them.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Oh geez. Now if we ended up winning the series all we are going to hear about is how that goal should have never counted and how the series could of been different. bla bla bla.

Would LGW be any different if it were the other way?

Regardless, I think we got lucky and i'll take that kind of luck all day long.

[Earthhuman 8]

Maybe Trotz should stop biatching about the previous game and pay attention to the next one? We've all been screwed over by the refs at one point, this is the Stanley Cup playoffs and it isn't one game elimination. If you are so mad, transfer that anger into making your team play a bit more inspired for the next game--not whining to the media. Ugh.

Bahhh. Bahhhh. (sheep)

I agree with the Preds fan. There was not a hint of whining in Trotz's comment. Any coach would respond the same way. He was not dwelling on it, he was answering a question.

Edited April 11, 2008 by Earthhuman

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

I think it's perfectly possible to support the "no-call" without being a homer. What matters isn't what's "fair" or "unfair" to one team or another, it boils down to what the rules say and the basic concepts of officiating. Pucks often take bad/good bounces off of officials. If the lineman had been one foot inside the line when he got hit Trotz wouldn't have been upset and this thread wouldn't even exist. The only question is if the puck hit the guy inside or outside of the zone. There's no definitive shot that answers this question. This issue boils down to inches. So if no camera can deduce the right call, and none of the four guys with whistles could tell for sure, what should have happened?

One of the worst things any official can do in any sport is interject themselves into the game based on a guess. You'll hear this in officiating schools and clinics. Don't call it unless you see it and have a good look at it. It's better to error on the side of discretion and let the game play itself out than to guess a call, get it wrong, and then alter the game as a result. A prime example of this was the Wings' second game against Chicago this season. Late in the game, away from the puck, Lilja put this stick on top of a Blackhawk's stick to pin it down. The Chicago player's stick must have been unknowingly cracked on its shaft because the second Lilja pinned it, the stick literally fell in two pieces. The Chicago player dropped the stub of a shaft, raised his hands and tried to sell the call. One of the refs looked over, saw the stick lying in two, the Blackhawk acting indignant, and called Lilja for "slashing". On the resulting PP, Lang scored the game winner. The ref "guessed" the call wrong and affected the outcome of the game because it appears he "thought" it was a slash.

While I certainly agree that we were the beneficiary of some bad calls last night (the Bonk phantom hook is Exhibit A), I don't agree that Z's first goal was one of them.

Fair enough. I think it was offside but can't prove it. In the end all i'm saying is that the Preds feel they have a legitimate beef. Who am I to just push it under the rug and tell them to stop bitching about it? There bench was on that side and their players were sitting right on the line so they probably had a better look than the ref who got plunked with the puck and probably didn't even realize it could've been offside.

What gnaws at me about this whole thing is the level of hypocrisy. If the Preds want to ***** let them *****. For starters, we would be no different and anybody who says otherwise is taking homerism to a whole new level. We'd do the same thing.

It's the seemingly endless attempts at justifying the call, calling the Preds whiny *******, etc...that just irks me off.

We got the call in our favor. So what if it was a blown call. It's not like its going to get reversed. Just be happy we got the call and move on. The need that some people have to defend the team's honor, the calls, whatever you want to call it at any cost whenever another team gripes just makes me shake my head. We got the call so let them *****. We don't have to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the refs were right, the Wings are Gods and the Preds are all whiny trolls.

Bottom line is the Preds have a beef. We'd have the same beef if the shoe were on the other foot. Why we need to take such offense to what Trotz said and rail on the Preds so much for complaining about something we ourselves would do just bugs me.

We won. I'm happy.

[Earthhuman 8]

That sounds definitive. Shall we let this thread die now? Man, it shouldn't have even been started. Maybe it was started by an NHL official who's job is to manufacture rivalries between divisional teams who clearly do not have the makings of a rivalry.

Edited April 11, 2008 by Earthhuman

[Wings_Dynasty 267]

It happens in hockey. I bitched about the net goal, I bitched about the Homer-Ducks goal. I'll ***** about something that happens and doesn't get called this post season. What he doesn't say is that they all left the zone and no one was playing Z when the play was made. If the puck was legally kept in (and there was no doubt) and the play was made there still would have been a goal.

[cirov19 1]

Well it's a good thing that Trotz isn't an official and has no say in the outcome of the game once the score is in. Sorry Trotter. Try again.

[Frozen-Man 144]

That sounds definitive. Shall we let this thread die now? Man, it shouldn't have even been started. Maybe it was started by an NHL official who's job is to manufacture rivalries between divisional teams who clearly do not have the makings of a rivalry.

Why shouldn't this thread have been started? The thread has been view 2300+ times because the teams are playing a best of seven series and people are interested in what the coaches say and what they think really happened. It was reported by the AP and was on all the sports websites but yeah no one cares about it and it should never be discussed. If you don't want to read it then don't - but if people want to read it and want to post about it why the crap do you care?

[hillbillywingsfan 792]

Third one would have? Glad you pay attention to the game, lol. Yeah, we would of pulled Ellis when the game would have been tied. Sigh

It is funny to me how everyone is saying he is whining about it.

'We cleared the puck and it look like it hit the linesman and came back in,' Nashville coach Barry Trotz said. 'I looked at it again on replay and from my judgment, it looked fairly clear. Usually in that situation, the linesmen or the referee blow that to not give an unfair advantage.'"

That doesn't read like whining to me. See Ron Wilson for the definition of whining.

Think about it, he was asked about the play from a member of the media and he responded with what he saw. That is where quotes come from people. The coach just doesnt sit up there and run his mouth with an account of the game.

Was he crying over and over about it, No. Get over it.

It was a break in your favor, plain and simple. That is they way it goes sometimes.

The majority of Predator fans are letting it go for what it is. A close call, that should of been whistled dead but wasn't. We had plenty of time and opportunity to tie it up after that. Dom made a couple great saves.

On to game two. Go Preds

so you come to our board and tell us get over it. hahahah so how is it when it was reviewed it was called a goal? it wasn't reviewed by the refs..it wasn't reviewed by the wings players or anyone that has to do with the team.it was reviewed by professionals that look at these things every day......and as far as your pred fans getting over it....well from a little visit to your preds board it doesn't look like it.

[hillbillywingsfan 792]

I totally agree. It should've been whistled dead. I don't know about the trip on Weber but whatever, the play probably should've been whistled. It wasn't. It was a LUCKY break for the wings no matter how you shake it out.

You just have to remember that there are quite a few completely biased, incapable of objective thought homers around here. It is a Wings forum afterall (which is what i've been told a million times by the homers).

Anyway, it was a lucky break. We would cry and ***** about it too if it went against us. If Preds fans are truly letting it go as you say, then they have a step up on Wings fans because people around here would be bitching about this through 2009.

way to support the fan base there GST. hahahahahahah

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Why shouldn't this thread have been started? The thread has been view 2300+ times because the teams are playing a best of seven series and people are interested in what the coaches say and what they think really happened. It was reported by the AP and was on all the sports websites but yeah no one cares about it and it should never be discussed. If you don't want to read it then don't - but if people want to read it and want to post about it why the crap do you care?

I think he was being sarcastic in response to my post that people should just move on.

Which by the way, i'm not saying the thread shouldn't have been started or that it should be discussed. All i'm saying is that its funny the level of hypocrisy on this board. Probably all boards for that matter.

Just the level of offense people take to an opposing coach pointing out a questionable non-call is absurd. Especially when you consider that these are the same people who would back Mike Babcock if he said it and the shoe were on the other foot.

I just think things like this are so trivial. We got a favorable call. It is not outside the realm of possibility that the call/non call was a bad one.

But since the call was in our favor there's just no way it could've been a missed call and Trotz is just a whiner and so are all the Preds players. They're the whiners. We would never behave that way. The non call was 100% correct and we know this because we're Wings fans and we're infallible and so are the officials when it comes to giving us breaks. Now of course all of this changes when something doesn't go our way.

But do we take our own advice that we're giving Trotz? Do we call ourselves whiny ******* and forget about it and move on?

Hypocrisy.

[Rick 42]

I didn't really sound like trotz was complaining to me.

Now listening to the war room this morning, they were certainly complaining about it.

One Canadian fellow on the show whose name I can't remember said he thinks it was clearly offsides. He also said that even though he realised Detroit is the better team, he is still sticking with his prediction of Nashville beating the wings. I've been listening to XM for most of the season. No one talks about the wings all season (which I don't really mind because I like to hear about teams I don't follow) now that the playoffs are going, I hear all kinds of talk about the wings. Usually about how they will lose. But if I was a Canadians fan, I would be hoping to not meet the wings in the finals as well.

[GoWings1905 2,694]

Trotz and Nashville have a legitimate argument. It was really hard to tell from any angle if the puck came outside of the zone or not. That being said, the call went the Red Wings way, whether it was right or wrong. It doesn't change the fact that Nashville was outplayed all night, and only managed two or three shots on goal in the third period.

The better team won Game One, regardless of the linesman controversy.

Edited April 11, 2008 by GoWings1905

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

double post

Edited April 11, 2008 by GordieSid&Ted

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Trotz and Nashville have a legitimate argument. It was really hard to tell from any angle if the puck came outside of the zone or not. That being said, the call went the Red Wings way, whether it was right or wrong. It doesn't change the fact that Nashville was outplayed all night, and only managed two or three shots on goal in the third period.

The better team won Game One, regardless of the linesman controversy.

QFT!