Red Wings and Penguins bias

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Okay,

So I've been checking out the Dallas board and the Flyer board and there's a common theme in both.

Dallas fans repeatedly complain that the Wings have the refs and the league in their back pocket.

Flyers fans do the same thing and more, pretty much spending 50% of their time complaining that Crosby gets preferential treatment and to a much wider extent, the entire Pens team gets preferential treatment.

The Wings are 10-2 in these playoffs, the Pens 10-1.

I don't follow the Pens closely enough to say if they get preferential treatment or not.

But one thing that is blatantly obvious is the lack of love the Red Wings seem to get from everybody. To say we have the league or the refs in our back pocket is almost too funny.

I think the message to be taken away from this is that it doesn't matter if you live in the South or on the rugged streets of Philly, sour grapes transcend geography.

And no, I don't think the Wings or Pens get any special treatment.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Every single team has groups of fans that feel any other particular team aside from their own has the refs "in their pockets" and that their team keeps getting screwed out of calls. You generally hear these things when your team is losing. Gofigure that Dallas and Philly are making these comments.

Edit: (Kelsey) Grammar

Edited May 12, 2008 by Never Forget Mac #25

[Opie 308]

When you win, you get hated on, when you lose everyone wants you to succeed, well right up until the point in time you become a winner and then everyone hates you, until you suck again!!!

It is a vicious cycle!

[sixer 37]

People always need excuses when there team loses to another.

Some Dallas fans can't realize that were playing that much better then them and dominating the play.

[BlueMonk 102]

I think the message to be taken away from this is that it doesn't matter if you live in the South or on the rugged streets of Philly, sour grapes transcend geography.

I agree. And anyone who thinks preferential treatment is being handed out, consider the Caps-Flyers series. Overtime in a game 7, and they call a weak Caps penalty that leads to the Flyers eliminating Washington. If the league was really pulling for a team to win, that would have been an opportune moment to ensure the advancement of one of its most marketable and talented stars (Ovechkin).

[CrossoverThrash 0]

It seems the refs can't call penalties on malkin or crosby and allow them to dive

[rbochan 15]

Every single team has groups of fans that feel any other particular team aside from their own has the refs "in their pockets" and that that their team keeps getting screwed out of calls. You generally hear these things when your team is losing. Gofigure that Dallas and Philly are making this comments.

Living in Upstate new York, I don't get to see many Western games, so I can't really comment on the Detroit side of things.

However, I do see a boatload of Eastern games. The Pens always _seem_ to get preferential treatment. I think it has to do with Crosby being the "poster child of the NHL", and that Bettman has a constant chubby for him. It's everything from calls the seem to constantly go their way to a half-hour Crosby spooge-fest before ECF started on Versus. While I do believe he's a superb player, the media-darling treatment, and seemingly preferential calls the Pens get yanks my chain quite a bit. Granted, I don't have hard numbers to back it up, but that is my perception. I know a lot of the calls thing is the godawful officiating for the NHL, but it does seem one sided. the NHL really does need to start holding refs responsible for their lousy job, or at least start allowing replays on disputed calls, not just on disputed goals. Just about every other sport allows it. We have the necessary technology and means.

But what do I know, I'm just a bitter Buffalo fan (see: Hull's 'No Goal' and LeClair's goal through a hole in the net) who loves watching good hockey

Edited May 12, 2008 by rbochan

[MidMichSteve 1,115]

Every single team has groups of fans that feel any other particular team aside from their own has the refs "in their pockets" and that that their team keeps getting screwed out of calls. You generally hear these things when your team is losing. Gofigure that Dallas and Philly are making this comments.

Including us. Even when we are winning. Why else would we have boards?

I always join the boards of the playoffs opponents to see what their takes on our players and gripes are.

They also complain about the announcers of the games bias FOR the Wings at the same time that we are complaining about them favoring the other team.

It makes you think...........

[Jon 0]

If you ignore the 3 penalties Dallas received in the last :05 of game 2 the penalties were even at 6 a piece, IIRC.

[toby91_ca 620]

You are going to hear this type of s*** this time of year against the teams that are winning, simple as that.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Living in Upstate new York, I don't get to see many Western games, so I can't really comment on the Detroit side of things.

However, I do see a boatload of Eastern games. The Pens always _seem_ to get preferential treatment. I think it has to do with Crosby being the "poster child of the NHL", and that Bettman has a constant chubby for him. It's everything from calls the seem to constantly go their way to a half-hour Crosby spooge-fest before ECF started on Versus. While I do believe he's a superb player, the media-darling treatment, and seemingly preferential calls the Pens get yanks my chain quite a bit. Granted, I don't have hard numbers to back it up, but that is my perception. I know a lot of the calls thing is the godawful officiating for the NHL, but it does seem one sided. the NHL really does need to start holding refs responsible for their lousy job, or at least start allowing replays on disputed calls, not just on disputed goals. Just about every other sport allows it. We have the necessary technology and means.

But what do I know, I'm just a bitter Buffalo fan (see: Hull's 'No Goal' and LeClair's goal through a hole in the net) who loves watching good hockey

Last night the refs were poor and definitely favored the Pens, but it isn't always like that. People just use a Crosby/Poster Boy conspiracy as a scapegoat.

[toby91_ca 620]

I agree. And anyone who thinks preferential treatment is being handed out, consider the Caps-Flyers series. Overtime in a game 7, and they call a weak Caps penalty that leads to the Flyers eliminating Washington. If the league was really pulling for a team to win, that would have been an opportune moment to ensure the advancement of one of its most marketable and talented stars (Ovechkin).

I wouldn't classify that penalty as "weak", it was a very easy call. Back in the day, it probably wouldn't have been called, but in today's game it is one of the easiest calls you can make, and rightfully so. The defenseman is beaten and has to make a lazy trip to slow the player down....you have to call that.

[BlueMonk 102]

I wouldn't classify that penalty as "weak", it was a very easy call. Back in the day, it probably wouldn't have been called, but in today's game it is one of the easiest calls you can make, and rightfully so. The defenseman is beaten and has to make a lazy trip to slow the player down....you have to call that.

I don't disagree that it's a penalty, but comparable calls were not made in the moments leading up to that penalty. I felt the same way about the OTs in the Stars-Sharks game 6. There was massive interference going on and they were letting them play. There were no penalties from the 10 minute mark of the 2nd period until the 2nd or 3rd OT, I forget which. My point is, if they're going to put the whistles away, put them away for good.

[DallasStars 0]

It is the ignorant making these statements. I guarantee you there would be some of the same here if things werent going the way they are.

In the world of message board fandom:

1.When the team is winning: Everything is perfect. No one can beat us. Sweep. How did they make the playoffs? SC. When is the SC parade? Do I need to get there early?

2. When the team is losing: Switch the lines up. It's over. Conspiracy. Cheating. Look at their crowd. How did we make the playoffs? Do we need to revamp the front office? Do we need a new captain? That guy? He sucks. I cant believe he plays in the NHL. Maybe NHL 08.

It's hard to be surprised by what goes on.

[toby91_ca 620]

Last night the refs were poor and definitely favored the Pens, but it isn't always like that. People just use a Crosby/Poster Boy conspiracy as a scapegoat.

I disagree, big time. There were a couple borderline calls against both team. Against the Flyers, the call on Briere was bad, but if you are a ref and you catch Briere's elbow catching Fleury's head, what are you going to do? The one call on Hatcher on Malkin was borderline, but wouldn't the league be better if defenders couldn't do that (i.e. simply talking their two hands and getting them up in a guys face, etc. Body check the guy if you want to try and stop him and if you are not good enough to do that, too bad, you'll get beat.

The Flyers got away with a lot last night and so did then Pens, it went both ways.

The Crosby theory is simply laughable, if he had the refs in his back pocket, he wouldn't be cheapshotted like he is. How does Smith get away with simply right hooking him in the face to take him down rather than a clean body check? I love Smith as a defenseman for doing stuff like that, but you do have to pick your spots because if you get caught, it might cost your team. What he did to Crosby likely gets Crosby frustrated and off his game and potentially pulls him into retaliation. It didn't happen last night, but the Flyers were able to take Malkin off his game.

[toby91_ca 620]

I don't disagree that it's a penalty, but comparable calls were not made in the moments leading up to that penalty. I felt the same way about the OTs in the Stars-Sharks game 6. There was massive interference going on and they were letting them play. There were no penalties from the 10 minute mark of the 2nd period until the 2nd or 3rd OT, I forget which. My point is, if they're going to put the whistles away, put them away for good.

I agree that the consistency has been a joke.

In terms of putting the whistles away, that would be a joke as well, will bring it back to "garage league." I would like the whistles to be put away because players are not hooking, holding and tripping, not because the refs are letting it go.

I certainly do not want to watch a ton of powerplays, but I can't stand it when great plays don't happen because of players "cheating."

[SweWings 45]

It is the ignorant making these statements. I guarantee you there would be some of the same here if things werent going the way they are.

In the world of message board fandom:

1.When the team is winning: Everything is perfect. No one can beat us. Sweep. How did they make the playoffs? SC. When is the SC parade? Do I need to get there early?

2. When the team is losing: Switch the lines up. It's over. Conspiracy. Cheating. Look at their crowd. How did we make the playoffs? Do we need to revamp the front office? Do we need a new captain? That guy? He sucks. I cant believe he plays in the NHL. Maybe NHL 08.

It's hard to be surprised by what goes on.

I think we have a winner...

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

I disagree, big time. There were a couple borderline calls against both team. Against the Flyers, the call on Briere was bad, but if you are a ref and you catch Briere's elbow catching Fleury's head, what are you going to do? The one call on Hatcher on Malkin was borderline, but wouldn't the league be better if defenders couldn't do that (i.e. simply talking their two hands and getting them up in a guys face, etc. Body check the guy if you want to try and stop him and if you are not good enough to do that, too bad, you'll get beat.

The Flyers got away with a lot last night and so did then Pens, it went both ways.

The Crosby theory is simply laughable, if he had the refs in his back pocket, he wouldn't be cheapshotted like he is. How does Smith get away with simply right hooking him in the face to take him down rather than a clean body check? I love Smith as a defenseman for doing stuff like that, but you do have to pick your spots because if you get caught, it might cost your team. What he did to Crosby likely gets Crosby frustrated and off his game and potentially pulls him into retaliation. It didn't happen last night, but the Flyers were able to take Malkin off his game.

Nothing other than the call that was made, but its pretty hard to miss the events that led up to the Fleury head hit. Orpik held Briere way too long and then forced his route into Fleury. If the refs saw the hit to Fleury, he should've noticed Orpik forcing his path.

[servo 15]

Living in Upstate new York, I don't get to see many Western games, so I can't really comment on the Detroit side of things.

However, I do see a boatload of Eastern games. The Pens always _seem_ to get preferential treatment. I think it has to do with Crosby being the "poster child of the NHL", and that Bettman has a constant chubby for him. It's everything from calls the seem to constantly go their way to a half-hour Crosby spooge-fest before ECF started on Versus. While I do believe he's a superb player, the media-darling treatment, and seemingly preferential calls the Pens get yanks my chain quite a bit. Granted, I don't have hard numbers to back it up, but that is my perception. I know a lot of the calls thing is the godawful officiating for the NHL, but it does seem one sided. the NHL really does need to start holding refs responsible for their lousy job, or at least start allowing replays on disputed calls, not just on disputed goals. Just about every other sport allows it. We have the necessary technology and means.

But what do I know, I'm just a bitter Buffalo fan (see: Hull's 'No Goal' and LeClair's goal through a hole in the net) who loves watching good hockey

If the NHL wanted Crosby to win they would have ruled that the puck on its side over the blue line was indeed a goal last night. The refs over all do a good job except when they make phantom calls or calls that on plays that make no impact in the game.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

If the NHL wanted Crosby to win they would have ruled that the puck on its side over the blue line was indeed a goal last night. The refs over all do a good job except when they make phantom calls or calls that on plays that make no impact in the game.

Well played!

[BlueMonk 102]

I agree that the consistency has been a joke.

In terms of putting the whistles away, that would be a joke as well, will bring it back to "garage league." I would like the whistles to be put away because players are not hooking, holding and tripping, not because the refs are letting it go.

I certainly do not want to watch a ton of powerplays, but I can't stand it when great plays don't happen because of players "cheating."

I feel pretty much the same way. I do think the hooking calls, in particular, are called too easily. Just having a stick in the vicinity is not a hook, in my estimation. If it clearly impedes progress, then yes, it's a hook.

But there's no doubt in my mind that more stuff is let go by the officials late in close games. I'm generally in favor of letting the players play. But the league was crowing after that lockout that playoff games would be called just like regular season games, etc. I don't hear them banging that drum anymore.

[seeinred 1,488]

I disagree, big time. There were a couple borderline calls against both team. Against the Flyers, the call on Briere was bad, but if you are a ref and you catch Briere's elbow catching Fleury's head, what are you going to do? The one call on Hatcher on Malkin was borderline, but wouldn't the league be better if defenders couldn't do that (i.e. simply talking their two hands and getting them up in a guys face, etc. Body check the guy if you want to try and stop him and if you are not good enough to do that, too bad, you'll get beat.

The Flyers got away with a lot last night and so did then Pens, it went both ways.

The Crosby theory is simply laughable, if he had the refs in his back pocket, he wouldn't be cheapshotted like he is. How does Smith get away with simply right hooking him in the face to take him down rather than a clean body check? I love Smith as a defenseman for doing stuff like that, but you do have to pick your spots because if you get caught, it might cost your team. What he did to Crosby likely gets Crosby frustrated and off his game and potentially pulls him into retaliation. It didn't happen last night, but the Flyers were able to take Malkin off his game.

No, the Briere call was one of the worst calls of the playoffs, and the Hatcher on Malkin call wasn't borderline, it was horrific. Crosby drew a fairly weak holding call early in the game, too, one they let go most of the time these playoffs. But the Pens had at least 1 weak call against them. I forget who it was that tripped Kukkonen in front of the net, but that was a bad call too. The officiating has been getting progressively worse throughout the playoffs I think, and it's beyond frustrating, no matter who you're a fan of.

I'm not saying that the Crosby theory is right or has any validity, but sometimes it does seem like players are called by a tougher standard when the infractions involve Crosby.

[BlueMonk 102]

I have to say, the Hatcher call was one of the most ridiculous penalties I've ever seen. If a defenseman can't do that, just take the sticks away from all the players.

Nothing to do with player or team bias, I'm not commenting on that at all. That was a just a terrible penalty call by the official.

[toby91_ca 620]

Nothing other than the call that was made, but its pretty hard to miss the events that led up to the Fleury head hit. Orpik held Briere way too long and then forced his route into Fleury. If the refs saw the hit to Fleury, he should've noticed Orpik forcing his path.

They let the clutching and grabbing go the whole game, which favoured the Flyers in my opinion. In terms of the Briere incident, they couldn't have been watching it. If they were watching it, Orpik may have gotten a penalty, but in all likelihood, wouldn't have, as I said, they were letting that go. I think what happened is...the ref caught the end out of the corner of his eye and simply saw Briere hit Fleury and I can't fault the ref too much since it was away from the play, so he shouldn't be sitting their staring at it and if you catch it out of the corner of your eye, it seems like an easy call, when in reality, it should have been no call.

[toby91_ca 620]

No, the Briere call was one of the worst calls of the playoffs, and the Hatcher on Malkin call wasn't borderline, it was horrific. Crosby drew a fairly weak holding call early in the game, too, one they let go most of the time these playoffs. But the Pens had at least 1 weak call against them. I forget who it was that tripped Kukkonen in front of the net, but that was a bad call too. The officiating has been getting progressively worse throughout the playoffs I think, and it's beyond frustrating, no matter who you're a fan of.

I'm not saying that the Crosby theory is right or has any validity, but sometimes it does seem like players are called by a tougher standard when the infractions involve Crosby.

I agree that the Briere call was awful, I'm just cutting the ref a little slack for the reasons I have provided. It is a very tough job to do and we have the benefit of replays, they do not.

People look at the Crosby plays with a microscope and if you were to really watch everything, players get away with a lot more infractions against Crosby than get called. Crosby has possession of the puck a lot and in areas where guys are going to be taking liberties, it is only natural that there are going to be calls made. It is almost as if there are throngs of people out there waiting for a call to be made when someone does something to Crosby so then can then get on their soapbox and complain about it, but at the same time, they simply ignore the stuff that players do to Crosby that goes unoticed.

Maybe it's my bias against Hatcher, I can't stand the guy, that's makes me call that play borderline. I think Hatcher can make some good passes, but in his own end, I think he just gets away with way too much garbage and if there is a weak call like this on him every now and then, I turn an eye to it since there are likely 3-5 other incidents he should have gotten called for but didn't.