embellishment

[stud_defenseman 1]

Even though it is mine, as well as the team's best interest for them to continue to win, I am starting to get a bit frusterated with some of their means of doing so. I understand that embellishment has become a part of the game simply for the fact that players want the refs to notice when they are being interfered with / obstructed / hooked or whatever else, and in this sense it is somewhat necessary. If a player is in any way illegally interfering with your ability to play the game it is obviously in your best interest that the referees become aware of it. However, I think this is being taken too far at times. Osgood, who I never had previously identified as a flopper, has looked very hasek-like so far in the playoffs as there have been two very obvious incidents where he has tried to embellish the play such as with the Ribeiro incident and the Talbot penalty (and to a lesser extent the penalty on Malone as well). I am not saying that these were not penalties (because they were) I am only saying that the extra theatrics really are somewhat embarrassing to myself, a diehard wings fan. the Ribeiro incident in particular was extremely embarassing as there was no way in hell that a slash to the chest could have that kind of effect on a goaltender. Even the shot from Roberts on Franzen, though it was certainly unwarranted and potentially dangerous, seemed to be embellished by the Mule.

Basically, the problem for me is that some of these plays are giving our hard working, and talented players an image that is not so flattering. And even though ultimately the most important thing is winning the Stanley Cup, for me I would like this win to be free from any blemishes. I don't want to give anyone a reason to criticize us for our victory, I want everyone around the league to recognize us for being the best team this year, not a team that likes to dive.

People on LGW refer to the Colorado Avalanche as being a team with a bunch of divers for a reason... because they were often guilty of diving. Don't think for one second that the Avs fans are going to spare us of similar criticism in the future.

We can win without it! Go Wings!

[NHLrules? 32]

I see.

So what do you think that Pen in the first did when Gill hit him in the head?

He hit the ice as if Oswald hit him from the book depository.

Ozzie was fine, he got run into and fell over the net (not to mention if you watch it closely, he may have hit the back of his head on the pipes).

[Electrophile 3,554]

I call it "competitive advantage". We know how to work the system, they don't. Hence why they're whining. I think Ozzie can be a great actor at times, but I saw that last hit he took and the back of his head did hit the pipes. He fell backwards and down after that.....I wouldn't call that a dive.

[fastballspecial 0]

I saw Franzen get rocked in the head and fall down.

I saw Osgood get run into and fall down.

if I punch you in the face or run into you, are you not allowed to fall down?

doubt it.

[stud_defenseman 1]

I see.

So what do you think that Pen in the first did when Gill hit him in the head?

He hit the ice as if Oswald hit him from the book depository.

I hope you aren't refering to the play where Gill highsticked his teammate and cut him wide open, I would think that would be enough reason to fall to the ice in pain.

I call it "competitive advantage". We know how to work the system, they don't. Hence why they're whining. I think Ozzie can be a great actor at times, but I saw that last hit he took and the back of his head did hit the pipes. He fell backwards and down after that.....I wouldn't call that a dive.

I agree that it is in a sense a "competitive advantage"... we want to win at all costs... I didn't imply that it was a dive in this game on Ozzie's part as there certainly was contact made, however he did seem to crash into the net with a little extra emphasis. In retrospect, I have seen many other players in the league do muh worse.

[stud_defenseman 1]

I saw Franzen get rocked in the head and fall down.

I saw Osgood get run into and fall down.

if I punch you in the face or run into you, are you not allowed to fall down?

doubt it.

Great job in totally ignoring my argument.

[RedStormRising 7]

Some of the greatest teams in sports have the greatest actors. Its part of sports around the world. The current Spurs, the past Avalanche, Manchester United, etc. If it gets the call then why not do it? Its all about what the referees see. That's why hockey has a diving penalty. If its a dive then it should be called accordingly. A penalty is a penalty. A win is a win. A championship is a championship. Lets not discredit the Wings greatness because of this subject.

[fastballspecial 0]

Great job in totally ignoring my argument.

Anytime.

[ben_usmc 253]

I get where your going, and it would be nice if they didn't. But the question is would the refs call the stuff if they don't?

[seeinred 1,488]

I really don't think Franzen's was a dive. Sometimes you get hit and it takes a second for you to realize that it hurts. That's probably what happened there, and Ozzie DID get hit, and he think he legitimately lost his balance when he fell there. I agree that IF the Wings started to dive all the time every time they got touched that it would suck, but they don't.

[NHLrules? 32]

Draper lost how many teeth and didnt look like an ass clown.

So whatever happened to Penguin boy, couldnt have been that bad.

He acted like he took a Mauser round to the dome.

[Favshortie51913 0]

I really don't think Franzen's was a dive. Sometimes you get hit and it takes a second for you to realize that it hurts. That's probably what happened there, and Ozzie DID get hit, and he think he legitimately lost his balance when he fell there. I agree that IF the Wings started to dive all the time every time they got touched that it would suck, but they don't.

As much as I would love to believe that they aren't acting... I also have worked the past two games. Basically, the players need to be mugged at least three times for the ref to even take a second look.

I saw Datsyuk be held, Z get tripped, and even Lidstrom get cross checked. I am thinking that they are only embelishing because the OLD fashioned way just isn't working for them.

[luvmnger 125]

it is of my belief that, yeah, they have been embellishing the hits, but after watching some of the penguins other series, they often pull small little cheap shots that go "under the radar" and our coach is just exploiting this.

just like cards....every team has their "tell"

this is the penguins.

small extra poke, slash, elbow....nothing too big.

retaliation penalty.....bang....power play for them

well, say hello to the better coach, players, team.

san jose, calgary, anaheim, philadelphia, sean avery, all use this as standard practice.

our coach has informed the players to let it be know when someone gets a little extra.

diving in my book is taking a no call and making it a big deal. "light stick on arm..spin fall"

not diving is taking a missed call and making it known. "poke stick in face...grab face and fall down"

ozzie got an elbow to the head...it was a light elbow.....but it was still an ELBOW.

franzen got a punch to the head...it was a good shot....but it was a shot non the less.

[Pskov Wings Fan 71]

I call it "competitive advantage". We know how to work the system, they don't. Hence why they're whining. I think Ozzie can be a great actor at times, but I saw that last hit he took and the back of his head did hit the pipes. He fell backwards and down after that.....I wouldn't call that a dive.

I disagree. I prefer to cheer for the team, which plays better hockey not "works the system" better. So I am happy that Dats and Z do not flop (at least I can't remember any instances).

I like when Wings play cleaner than the other team and still beat them.

[stud_defenseman 1]

Draper lost how many teeth and didnt look like an ass clown.

So whatever happened to Penguin boy, couldnt have been that bad.

He acted like he took a Mauser round to the dome.

That is fine and dandy. I really don't care whether or not the Pens are diving, I would just rather not see my beloved redwings stooping to their level.

But I guess sometimes when the Pens are getting in a million cheap shots that aren't called maybe it is sometimes best to try to sell one now and again. I just wish the refs would could catch some more of these non-calls.

[Electrophile 3,554]

I disagree. I prefer to cheer for the team, which plays better hockey not "works the system" better. So I am happy that Dats and Z do not flop (at least I can't remember any instances).

I like when Wings play cleaner than the other team and still beat them.

I don't consider selling a fall to be dirty. Dirty play to me is cheap shots to the head/face, slashing people, knocking our goalie's head into the pipes.....stuff like that. Dirty implies to me, intent to injure, intent to knock out of game. Getting hit and then acting a little to draw a penalty isn't up there with the tactics Claudette LePuke used to entertain us with.

[Electrophile 3,554]

As much as I would love to believe that they aren't acting... I also have worked the past two games. Basically, the players need to be mugged at least three times for the ref to even take a second look.

I saw Datsyuk be held, Z get tripped, and even Lidstrom get cross checked. I am thinking that they are only embelishing because the OLD fashioned way just isn't working for them.

I see where you're going with this. I think there's some truth to it. Remember when you were a kid and you scraped your knee, but you screamed and cried like you got shot, just because you wanted someone to come over and ask if you were okay? Because otherwise you'd be ignored? Maybe a little of that is what's going on here.

If the call needs to be made, and the refs aren't making that call.....we should do what we need to (within reason) to get the call made. Now, if you're trying to sell something that's NOT a penalty.....then there's a problem.

[Bluedevils_13 0]

I dont think this was really embellished that much, I have watched it on two different feeds, and it seems to me Oz tripped on the net more than anything. I will admit Ozzie sold the Ribiero slash, but his reaction was pretty reasonable I mean come on.

Either way all of this is just a moot point, both plays just should not have happened anyways.

[Datsyerberger 279]

There's a pretty solid line between diving and selling a play. Someone brushing you with his stick or jersey as he brushes by (or worse, not touching you at all, a la Floppa) and you going sprawling and doing a half-spin/etc is a dive.

As far as goaltenders go, it's in your best interesting to sell contact and interference committed against you. In the "new" NHL where it's much harder for your boys to do enforcing for you, you have to let the rules and the refs do the job. If you're in the crease or the trap and someone nails you, your only defense is to make sure the refs notice it. Where it becomes over embellishment is what the contact was like more than how hard you sell it. In Oz's case, he was nailed pretty square on the first time. The second time, he was shoulder rammed and looked like he honestly tripped over the netting, though by all means, he should have sold that. Especially after the player. Its not his fault for being a whiny embellisher, and stuff like that isn't what loses teams the game. Its the people that commit such blatant penalties in the first place that ruin it.

As far the hit on Franzen.. well, hard to tell if he went down legit or not after that. Taking one in the face never really feels that good. Regardless.. if someone punches you in the shoulder or chest, you shrug it off, or drop the gloves with him, or just ignore it and hope the refs saw it. If someone punches you in the f***in face, you sell that s***, drop down and say "Hey refs! Look how much of a cowardly ****** canoe this guy is!" Again, not the fault of the embellisher at all, and it's not his sort thats "ruining" the game.. if anyone is, its the ones that commit blatant penalties away from or after the play.

[interminded 1]

I dont think this was really embellished that much, I have watched it on two different feeds, and it seems to me Oz tripped on the net more than anything. I will admit Ozzie sold the Ribiero slash, but his reaction was pretty reasonable I mean come on.

Either way all of this is just a moot point, both plays just should not have happened anyways.

I agree.

Ozzie sold the Ribiero slash, no argument there.

But let's be fair... we're talking about the Stanley Cup here and in the heat of the moment things happen.

About game 2: The hit on Ozzie wasn't hard at all, but if you watch closely you'll see that Ozzie lost his balance more than anything, he fell on the side of the net and then on the ice.

He got up immediately, so it's not like he was faking an injury by staying on his back or something.

This was not a dive, nor was it embellished.

[The Secret 304]

The refs need to be better at seeing and calling the little extra's that provoke the incident's of acting. I really really don;t want to see our favourite sport become like soccer... I'm pretty sure every soccer team hire's an acting coach as part of their coaching staff. Soccer ahs become so lame bec ause of it and I def do not want this in the NHL... ref's need to be better, bottom line!

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

Right, because the Pens don't have any divers on their team.

[Gizmo 21]

He got up immediately, so it's not like he was faking an injury by staying on his back or something.

This was not a dive, nor was it embellished.

Agreed, he got nudged backwards enough to fall backwards on the side of the goal... You'd have to be pretty stupid to dive behind your own net when there's a live puck on the ice out front, even if it's in your team's possession... Particularly in a SCF Game in the waning moments and you have a shutout going!

[Nightfall 871]

Embellishment is always going to be around in sports. It happens in all the major sports, especially the ones that are full contact. The MLB is the only one I think that has far less of a problem with it.

This is where the human aspect comes into it. Human referees call the game as they see it. As long as you have the human factor in that case, people will dive and embellish what happens to try to get their team an advantage. So, while it would be nice if players didn't do that, as long as people who do it are rewarded in most occasions, it will continue to happen.

[VM1138 1,921]

I'm tired of embellishments, too. If you can't get a penalty fairly, don't get one at all. And yeah, I can see how some fans think the Wings fake a little too much. Ozzie has been more dramatic than usual, which I don't think he needs to be.

And those cheap shots by the Wings in Game 5 of the Dallas series kind of bothered me, I'm glad they didn't stick with that strategy.