What is up with faceoff circle issues in this series?

[YoungGuns1340 1]

I meant to post about this earlier. Two things Ive noticed about faceoffs in this series, and its got me wondering. Ive never seen either of these things happen so often in a game, game after game in a series.

1. Our top faceoff takers are ritualistically getting thrown out of the faceoff circle.

2. Every other time the puck is dropped, it wasnt dropped "fairly" and they have to redo it.

Anyone else notice this? If youre an NHL official in the Stanley Cup Finals, why cant you drop a puck fairly? Why is that so hard? Im wondering this because, a lot was made out of the Red Wings being a really good faceoff team, and the Penguins being among the worst in the league, and that being an advantage to the Red Wings. Is this being done on purpose to give the Penguins an advantage or am I being a conspiracy theorist? Its just odd to me because I have never seen this happen as often as it has this series. Another thing thats interesting is that most of the time when the puck "isnt dropped fairly", the inital "unfair faceoff" is won by the Red Wings and has to be re-dropped by the officials.

Can I get some feedback here?

Edited June 3, 2008 by YoungGuns1340

[catbox_9 1]

I noticed we're losing a lot of faceoffs and that's been frustrating. I haven't really paid attention to why though as I don't really pay attention to what happens right before the puck drops or even what the two guys do until the puck is free.

[Electrophile 3,554]

I'm not clear on something; are you saying that the pucks aren't being dropped fairly or is someone on the Penguins saying that? I ask because of your last sentence; the unfair puck drops being won by the Red Wings.

That said, I honestly haven't noticed as much. It's not something I usually pay attention to. And how do you drop a puck "fairly"? I wasn't aware there is a fair and unfair way to do it.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

You guys seriously havent noticed this? Im tempted to download the game and count how many times the puck has to be re-dropeed cause it hasnt been dropped fairly. I pay attention closely to every faceoff.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

I'm not clear on something; are you saying that the pucks aren't being dropped fairly or is someone on the Penguins saying that? I ask because of your last sentence; the unfair puck drops being won by the Red Wings.

That said, I honestly haven't noticed as much. It's not something I usually pay attention to. And how do you drop a puck "fairly"? I wasn't aware there is a fair and unfair way to do it.

If the official thinks that he dropped the puck too closely to one player, he blows his whistle and they redo the puck drop.

[Electrophile 3,554]

If the official thinks that he dropped the puck too closely to one player, he blows his whistle and they redo the puck drop.

I see. Thanks. Yeah, it's not something I pay attention to, but now that I know what it is, I probably will now. I would imagine it's hard to get the puck to drop right in the center of the two players, seeing as I've never tried to do that before.

[seeinred 1,488]

Yeah, both of those have been happening a lot. The false faceoffs are soooooo annoying. I don't know what the deal is though, the league must have told the officials something about faceoffs. It's really ridiculous though. Just drop the puck and let them fight over it.

[weGotTheCup89 41]

oh yeah, it seems like every period now at least once or twice they call the faceoff back and redo it... maybe the league is retraining the refs on puck dropping and giving them practice in the SCF?

[Graybeard 0]

I don't think there's any conspiracy going on over face-offs. However, I wouldn't be surprised if someone (Therrien) put the bug in the officials ear before the series that Detroit cheats on faceoffs and therefor we're getting looked at a little extra hard. Everyone who's ever taken a face-off knows you cheat as much as you can possibly get away with. All it would take is a little extra scrutiny to get someone thrown out, a lot. They had to see the glaring difference coming into the series and it would just be good gamesmanship to try. You can't say officials aren't affected by this kind of thing. We see it time and again. Therrien's whining about obstruction worked out for him, as did Turco's whining about goaltender interference. It would actually be a knock against their coaching ability if they didn't try something like this.

Bowman was the freakin master at this kind of thing and it worked out pretty good for him.

[Aussie_Wing 354]

Twice now I've noticed the puck was dropped very poorly against Filppula; once in Game 4, and once today. Seriously I know I sound paranoid but it was dropped clearly in favour of the Penguins. Maybe I’m reading too much into it and it’s just a mistake but how hard can it be?

[heed316 7]

My whole family talks about how stupid it is that on almost every faceoff it seems something wasn't done right. People getting thrown out left and right, redos, and the like. Very annoying. Someone must have told the refs to be extra picky on cheating on the draws for this series as I've never seen anything quite like this.

[Bluedevils_13 0]

You're not crazy YoungGuns I have been noticing this the whole playoffs. I was shocked tonight I actually think I saw a Penguin kicked out of the circle once, although I could be mistaken. Babcock should seriously consider just playing a wing for the faceoff, than when he gets kicked out of the circle the center can take it.

[Nev 1,085]

Yep I too have noticed that games 3, 4 and 5 the Wings have been constanly kicked out of the face-off circle, seems like every other face-off (no exaggeration).

F/Os was meant to be a huge advantage for us this series given that we were top and Pittsburgh were bottom in that category, and yet they're almost 50-50. I too wonder if that's another thing Therien has been bitching about.

And Crosby totally pwned Zetterberg on them last night.

[Icteria virens 11]

I meant to post about this earlier. Two things Ive noticed about faceoffs in this series, and its got me wondering. Ive never seen either of these things happen so often in a game, game after game in a series.

1. Our top faceoff takers are ritualistically getting thrown out of the faceoff circle.

2. Every other time the puck is dropped, it wasnt dropped "fairly" and they have to redo it.

Anyone else notice this? If youre an NHL official in the Stanley Cup Finals, why cant you drop a puck fairly? Why is that so hard? Im wondering this because, a lot was made out of the Red Wings being a really good faceoff team, and the Penguins being among the worst in the league, and that being an advantage to the Red Wings. Is this being done on purpose to give the Penguins an advantage or am I being a conspiracy theorist? Its just odd to me because I have never seen this happen as often as it has this series. Another thing thats interesting is that most of the time when the puck "isnt dropped fairly", the inital "unfair faceoff" is won by the Red Wings and has to be re-dropped by the officials.

Can I get some feedback here?

everything you said is true. this has been going on since game #1, during games 1 and 2 we were constantly being thrown out of the circle with no explanation, this has happened to all our players but in particular against Zetterberg (the league knew he'd be against Wonderkid the first 2 games at the Joe) the most but like I said all players.

Starting in games 3 and 4 and 5 the linesman (prob. spurred on by private talks from Mike Babcock et al which all teams get to talk to the NHL between games and part of the competition committee agreement which makes MT's bitching even worse) were not so quick to throw players out but we were still tossed out more often then Pitts. I have never, in all my years of watching hockey, seen so many players thrown out of the faceoff circle as I've seen this round.

we were the leading team in the reg. season on FO, the Pens were the worst team in the PO's for faceoffs. You do the math. There's hardly any advantage after 5 games and don't tell me it's an accident.

and another thing, I agree with the poster who said they've noticed the Wings win a draw and then it's immediately called back b/c the faceoff was "unfair".

the amount of time I've seen Pitt players tossed out is laughable and no, the RW's aren't doing anything illegal on the FO's.

and to those who think this is just a theory I say you haven't been paying attention nearly enough.

[BlueMonk 102]

Oh, I've noticed it, alright. Some coworkers and I were talking about this very thing a couple days ago. I have no idea what's going on, but the officials are manipulating the faceoffs suddenly. Strange.

[Spinner 6]

I really began to notice this last night but I don't buy into a conspiracy. Just crappy refs.

[Flamezfan 0]

This is something I've noticed since the lockout. Its calmed down a bit this year, but it seemed like every face off of every game there has been at least one player thrown out. It's nothing new, no conspiracy against the Wings, nothing, just the way its been since the lockout.

(Of course, maybe the wings are cheating as well. I beleive it was Bryan Trottier who said all good faceoff men cheat.)

[Aussie_Wing 354]

What about the first faceoff of the game? Took 3 attempts to finally drop it. Draper won, the crowd gave a huge roar, but I think the cheer was more due to the fact the puck had finally been dropped!

[BlueMonk 102]

After the lockout, the drop of the puck was supposed to be quicker. Here we are 3 seasons later, and they've never been slower.

[Flamezfan 0]

If they were trying to speed it up, then they've failed since day one. I rarely see a faceoff (playoffs or regular season) where someone hadn't been thrown out, or they had to redrop the puck.

I seem to remember that before the lockout you rarely saw people kicked out of the faceoff circle, now, I'm shocked if it doesn't happen, go figure.

[toby91_ca 620]

I haven't noticed any increase in people getting kicked out compared to prior years. The reason it is happening is quite simple: It is the SCF now, every face-off is so important, so the players are really getting aggresive and jump the gun a little too soon on a lot of draws, just the way it is.

One thing I have noticed about the Wings faceoffs though and why they are so good. It isn't that their centremen are simply better than most of the competition, it's that they win a lot of draws as a team. I find most teams try and let their centreman do all the work. I find a lot of draws that are not won cleanly, Detroit comes away with the puck because the wingers are simply there before the opposing team.

I've seen clips of the Pens practicing their draws and they just have two guys squaring off. I think this is a problem for them. If you want to be a strong face-off team, you need to practice draws with 5 guys on each side and teach the guys who are not centremen what to do.

[shanny is the man 0]

I guess if its all so important to the integrity of the game that "unfairly dropped pucks" are re-dropped, why don't the officials get integrity attacks over all the other stuff they do wrong/miss?

[Satan81 0]

I'm re-watching and burning last nights/this mornings game and the face off redrops were absolutely ridiculous. Filppula owned the Pens on face-offs and of course was eventually either tossed from the circle or had to deal with the re-drop. I lost count of how many hooks, obstruction or tripping calls that the pens were allowed to get away with in the 3rd which of course allowed them the 6 on 5 pullled goalie ending. THE REFS INJECTED THEMSELVES INTO THIS GAME AND GREATLY AFFECTED IT'S OUTCOME, PROBABLY AT GARY 'THE FOOL" BUTTNUGGETS BEHEST. WINGS IN 6, 4-1 FINAL SCORE WITH HOMER SCORING THE CUP WINNER!

[Ti-girl 0]

I know Helm has been losing a lot of faceoffs, but he just turned into a full time centreman half way through his 18 year old season in the Dub.

Last year was his 19 year old season.

My .000002 cents.

[pavyaz19 1]

I have definitely noticed this and it is driving me crazy...

1.) we are not winning nearly as many faceoffs... are the Pens that much better than us at draws?

-on a sidenote, it seemed that neither team could win a faceoff in the offensive zone most of the time.

2.) seriously, how many times are the linesman going to steal the limelight and throw someone out of the circle just to get their mug on NBC ten extra times per night. Drop it fairly and / or just drop it right away instead of teasing both centers! Of course the Wings bite on it because we're not allowed to have our sticks down first at home, they tease, our stick goes down, thrown out. Super annoying.

3. Lastly, this all seems new. I mean, people get kicked out of faceoffs all year, but in the late rounds of these playoffs, it has been extremely magnified. Have Draper, Zetterberg, Cleary, and Filpulla been "CHEATING" at faceoffs all year and were never called on it before??? I find this hard to believe, but what other reason is there?