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Lidstrom and Osgood, do they get their numbers retired?


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#61 mindfly

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 06:18 AM

Definitely Lidström, Lidström has been playing all his career in detroit like stevie Y, never made mistakes, first european captain, as good captain as stevie Y... Lidströms number retired in a few year, OH YEAH.

Edited by mindfly, 10 June 2008 - 06:20 AM.


#62 The Noodle 39

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 06:22 AM

QUOTE (betterREDthandead @ June 10, 2008 - 07:09AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Once again: Simply the fact that we have to debate Ozzie's qualifications, that alone disqualifies him for retiring the number. When a number goes up to the rafters, there should be absolutely no doubt to all watching that the honor is deserved.


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#63 Adidarw

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 07:00 AM

Yes to Lidstrom. He stayed with the team his entire NHL career (so far, and he doesn't show any signs of going anywhere else) and he is arguably one of the best defensemen in the history of the sport.

In my opinion, Osgood shouldn't even be considered. He's a great goalie and fans love him but he was never a true superstar and he played for a few different teams. Possibly an honorable mention would do for Osgood. I don't think his number deserves to be permanently reserved. It would take someone like Roy who has always been there with the team and is considered an all-star goalie season after season.

#64 SouthernWingsFan

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 07:00 AM

Lidstrom shouldn't be any question, yes.

Osgood I'm not so sure yet, but I'd love to see it happen. I'm not an "Osgood doubter" or anything like that, but getting your jersey retired means you are up with some pretty damn special company. If he keeps winning more often than not and finishes his career in Detroit and can win a 3rd Cup as a starter, then there shouldn't be any question. Part of me says there shouldn't be much of a question about it now.

#65 NeverForgetMac25

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 07:50 AM

While I understand people here have mad love for their Wings, some of you aren't being very realistic.

Drapes? Shanahan? I love these guys too, but this isn't some Mickey Mouse franchise were talking about. There are 6 numbers retired in the Wings' 83 year history and some of you are suggesting that that number should be almost doubled! Let's get real here.

Draper and Shanahan have absolutely no shot of getting their numbers retired in Detroit. Had Fedorov not left, he'd probably (not definitely) get his number retired, but now that he has moved (and regardless as to whether or not he somehow finishes his career in Detroit) he still shouldn't get the honor *purely based on the difficulty to get your number retired in Detroit*. There have been great players to don the Winged Wheel since Delvecchio retired, but having your number lifted in Detroit is IMO, a higher honor than it is with almost any other franchise.

Lids: Absolutely
Ozzie: I love the guy, but I don't think so.
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#66 Opie

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 08:27 AM

QUOTE (betterREDthandead @ June 10, 2008 - 02:36AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I always say this: If you have to debate it, the answer is no. Retiring a number is a greater honor than the Hall of Fame.


This is the ol' Jim Rice argument and I subscribe to it whole heartedly if you have to make a case or an argument that some one is either Hall of Fame or Retired Jersey worthy than they are not!

It is an honor bestowed upon only the most respected wings of all times, Ozzie did unreal this year, and would need to keep this up for at least 2 more seasons and win at least 1 more cup as the starter before I would consider him to get his number retired.

Think of it this way look at the two names in the topic:

Lids

Ozzie

What are the reasons posted in this thread for Lids to be retired, NONE, it is a forgone conclusion, and IMO that is how this should work.
The only question surrounding the #5 going into the rafters is what year, and what game will the ceremony be.

As much as I am rooting for Ozzie this upcoming season, I can not at this point in time say that the #30 in the rafters is a forgone conclusion.

Now if Ozzie ends his career holding most Det goaltending records than yes it becomes a forgone conclusion, however at this point I have to say no to Ozzie in the rafters.

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#67 WizardofOz

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 08:31 AM

Lidstrom will get his number retired.

Osgood will have his number retired and he will be inducted into the hhof as well. He has the second most wins as a red wing and he could possibly pass Sawchuk not only in wins as a Red Wing but in wins all time wich would move him into the top 5 all time. That arguement about his stats not being good enough just doesn't hold water. Grant Fuhr is in the hall of fame and his career gaa is 3.38 and sv% .887. Patrick Roy has a career 2.53 gaa and .910sv%. Osgood's 2.43 gaa and .907 sv% are a hell of a lot better than fuhr's and Roy's sv% isn't much better than Ozzy's. Martin Brodeur, Jacques Plante, and Dominik Hasek are the only three players ahead of Osgood in wins with a better career gaa.

#68 soul0wner

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 08:34 AM

Lidstrom will I'm sure. I don't know about Osgood. I think I would like to see it, but I guess it can depend on what he does in his next few years.

#69 HuntsVegas Baby

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 08:54 AM

Wow, so much unlove for the guy won just won a cup.

Lids yes. Feds yes. Ozzie yes.

Oz is a huge fan favorite, he will have atleast 2 cups and over 400 wins. All three numbers will be hung.

#70 NeverForgetMac25

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 08:57 AM

QUOTE (HuntsVegas Baby @ June 10, 2008 - 08:54AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Wow, so much unlove for the guy won just won a cup.

Lids yes. Feds yes. Ozzie yes.

Oz is a huge fan favorite, he will have atleast 2 cups and over 400 wins. All three numbers will be hung.

No, they really won't.

Lidst will, I'm 95% sure Ozzie won't, and I'll bet you anything Fedorov won't.
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#71 MississippiWing

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 09:07 AM

This is why I think Ozzie gets serious consideration. I agree it's harder to get your name in the rafters than in the HHOF, but when you look at Ozzie's stats compared to all other goalies that have worn the Winged Wheel there is a definite case to be made. He's passed Sawchuk in some important stat categories while hauling in 2 Stanley Cups. I think if he is successful for another year and makes at least another SC with the Wings then he's got it. I think he leads the Wings to another SC win, and he's locked.

#72 Reds4Life

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 09:09 AM

Only Lidas will have his number retired. Ozzie and Fedorov..no way.

#73 McCartyFanForLife

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 09:11 AM

Lids - No doubt; his jersey is going up

Ozzie - He needs 1 more significant accomplishment in my mind to get up there. Those could be: Vezina Trophy, another Stanley Cup, or 500 wins

#74 Casey

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 10:49 AM

QUOTE (McCartyFanForLife @ June 10, 2008 - 10:11AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Ozzie - He needs 1 more significant accomplishment in my mind to get up there. Those could be: Vezina Trophy, another Stanley Cup, or 500 wins


I'm fine with that as the "requirement". Odds are pretty good he'll get the Cup if he has a Vezina-class year.
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#75 egroen

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 11:03 AM

Lidstrom is such a no-brainer.

Osgood is not even close yet... he needs at least one more Cup as a starter (and then it is still debateable), but he could really sweeten the deal with a Vezina or a Conn Smythe.
Red Kelly #4 and Larry Aurie #6 belong in the rafters!!!

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#76 OhioWing

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 12:14 PM

First off - I am a goalie so I always stick by the goalies - and I think Sawchuck is one of the greatest ever to put on the pads.

To say Osgood is not even close to Sawchuck is just wrong. The only place that Osgood can't touch Sawchuck is in shutouts (as if anyone could).

Wings Career:

Player games wins losses gaa win%
Sawchuck 734 351 243 2.44 47.8
Osgood 485 279 128 2.40 57.8
if you figure gaa without the shutout games then Sawchuck ballons up to 2.73 and Osgood barely rises up to 2.48. That only shows that Sawchuck tended to be a little less consistent in what he gave up


Playoffs:
Player games wins losses gaa win%
Sawchuck 85 46 33 2.00 54.1
Osgood 87 52 37 2.45 59.8

Both have 3 Cups (admittedly Ozzie had to watch Vernon win one from the bench).

If Osgood can play above .500 for a few more years he should hold all of the Wings records in net except shutouts and Vezina trophies. It would also put him at least top 10 in career stats for goalies. To say it is because he is an above average goalie on a great team could also be said of Sawchuck (look at the cup runs in both careers and some of the greats they both played with).

Another cup or a Vezina should make him a solid lock for the HOF if he isn't already. As far as getting his number in the rafters, who can say. It depends on what the criteria actually is and that can be debated forever. If it is on stats, then it should happen up the road. If it is because of popularity then I can't ever see another goalie getting up there. Being a goalie in Detroit is not a job to take if being popular is high on your list of needs.

If 30 goes up in the rafters, I don't see it being anything quick like Stevie. I expect the honor to come when Ozzie has been out of the league for 10 -15 years at least and everyone can look back on his era with nostalgia.

As others have said, another cup or a Vezina or 450-500 wins and it should be a certainty - with it being on the edge now. It could go either way based on the next few years of his career and it is his to earn or lose.


#77 vangvace

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 12:51 PM

Honestly, for Osgood STILL has a meh about him outside of those who carry a torch for him. Personally I think Aurie should be returned to where he belongs before Osgood has his number retired. I think he's bettered his chances for HOF, but it'll take time because of a logjam of others deserving by that point. Plus I have to think about it.

Lids... K. No thought needed.

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#78 HenryMalredo

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 02:01 PM

QUOTE (OhioWing @ June 10, 2008 - 12:14PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
First off - I am a goalie so I always stick by the goalies - and I think Sawchuck is one of the greatest ever to put on the pads.

To say Osgood is not even close to Sawchuck is just wrong. The only place that Osgood can't touch Sawchuck is in shutouts (as if anyone could).

Wings Career:

Player games wins losses gaa win%
Sawchuck 734 351 243 2.44 47.8
Osgood 485 279 128 2.40 57.8
if you figure gaa without the shutout games then Sawchuck ballons up to 2.73 and Osgood barely rises up to 2.48. That only shows that Sawchuck tended to be a little less consistent in what he gave up


Playoffs:
Player games wins losses gaa win%
Sawchuck 85 46 33 2.00 54.1
Osgood 87 52 37 2.45 59.8

Both have 3 Cups (admittedly Ozzie had to watch Vernon win one from the bench).

If Osgood can play above .500 for a few more years he should hold all of the Wings records in net except shutouts and Vezina trophies. It would also put him at least top 10 in career stats for goalies. To say it is because he is an above average goalie on a great team could also be said of Sawchuck (look at the cup runs in both careers and some of the greats they both played with).

Another cup or a Vezina should make him a solid lock for the HOF if he isn't already. As far as getting his number in the rafters, who can say. It depends on what the criteria actually is and that can be debated forever. If it is on stats, then it should happen up the road. If it is because of popularity then I can't ever see another goalie getting up there. Being a goalie in Detroit is not a job to take if being popular is high on your list of needs.

If 30 goes up in the rafters, I don't see it being anything quick like Stevie. I expect the honor to come when Ozzie has been out of the league for 10 -15 years at least and everyone can look back on his era with nostalgia.

As others have said, another cup or a Vezina or 450-500 wins and it should be a certainty - with it being on the edge now. It could go either way based on the next few years of his career and it is his to earn or lose.


Osgood could beat some of Sawchuck's team records, but stats aren't everything. Osgood will never be considered anywhere as good as Sawchuck. Also, for all the stats nuts here, the hockey hall of fame is not the most stat-friendly hall of fame.

#79 superstarsingh

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 04:18 PM

QUOTE (GMRwings1983 @ June 9, 2008 - 09:03PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If Fedorov and Shanahan aren't going to have their numbers retired, then neither should Osgood.

I strongly disagree with that statement. Shanny spent a lot of his years with various teams. Fedorov would have had his retired not he walked away. Ozzie, would be the likeliest of the trio to have his retired. He has three cups and many Red Wing records for a goaltender. Also, if he is somehow able to pass Sawchuk's record for wins in a Wings uniform, there would be no question that his number gets retired.

#80 DatsMyWings13

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 04:35 PM

Lidstrom is a YES!!!!!! thumbup.gif

Osgood at this point is a no. thumbdown.gif

I think Osgood might be able to work up to that but he's gonna have to win us another cup before that would happen.

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