Higher All Time Ranking: Yzerman or Lidstrom?

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

I would have never considered saying this years ago, but even though I currently have Yzerman higher on my all time list, I can see this changing when Lidstrom hangs his skates, because he'll have at least 6 Norris trophies, and a decade of pure dominance on defense, plus he's perfect as a player.

Yzerman never quite dominated his era the way Lidstrom has. A lot of that is because of Gretzky and Lemieux, but still, Lidstrom might go down in history as a better player because he's the best at his position for 10 years. Only a few players in history have been the best at their position for 10 years. Also, Lidstrom has been more durable even in his later years, while Yzerman at this point in his career had already began to decline and was riddled with injuries.

Anyway, feel free to debate this topic.

[Reds4Life 51]

Lidstrom, and it's not even close to be honest. Lidstrom is in top5 defensemen group. I would rank him 3rd(Orr, Bourque, Lidstrom, Potvin, Harvey).

I do love Steve Yzerman but Nicklas Lidstrom is better hockey player and is definitely higher on the all-time list.

Edited June 10, 2008 by Reds4Life

[JayUp88 1]

Yzerman may be the best

But by the numbers Lidstrom is better.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

Yzerman may be the best

But by the numbers Lidstrom is better.

I think consistency, dominance, and longevity have more to do with it than numbers.

It's difficult to compare a forward and defenseman statistically.

[egroen 384]

I have Lidstrom as a top 20 all-time and Yzerman as a top 35 all-time.

Lidstrom is a generational talent.

[McCartyFanForLife 17]

Yzerman played through so many more injuries than Lidstrom has. Yzerman still sits on the top of my list. Now, Lidstrom hasn't had the chance to demonstrate that because he hasn't needed to play injured in the playoffs. Can't compare the two in my mind because Yzerman was a forward and Lidstrom is a defenseman; they play 2 different ways.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

I have Lidstrom as a top 20 all-time and Yzerman as a top 35 all-time.

Lidstrom is a generational talent.

Top 35?

Geez, are you sure he should be in the top 100?

[JeeSpot82 10]

Steve Yzerman was easily one of the three best players in the 1980s and into the 90s. Hands down.

But, Nicklas Lidstrom is easily one of the three best defensemen of ALL TIME. And ranking him third is nearly heresy - you could get away with saying Orr was the greatest of all-time, but I'm sure you could have someone debate you on the Lidstrom vs. Orr, Defense-Mindedness vs. Scoring-Machinedness.

I love Steve Yzerman and he's a hero to everyone, but Nick Lidstrom is honestly one of the greats the game has ever seen. It is possible that Steve Yzerman meant more to the Red Wings and more to their fans and more to the city, but in a pure, hockey-only context with no outside factors, the answer is Nick Lidstrom.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

Steve Yzerman was easily one of the three best players in the 1980s and into the 90s. Hands down.

But, Nicklas Lidstrom is easily one of the three best defensemen of ALL TIME. And ranking him third is nearly heresy - you could get away with saying Orr was the greatest of all-time, but I'm sure you could have someone debate you on the Lidstrom vs. Orr, Defense-Mindedness vs. Scoring-Machinedness.

I love Steve Yzerman and he's a hero to everyone, but Nick Lidstrom is honestly one of the greats the game has ever seen. It is possible that Steve Yzerman meant more to the Red Wings and more to their fans and more to the city, but in a pure, hockey-only context with no outside factors, the answer is Nick Lidstrom.

I take one exception to your post.

Bobby Orr was amazing defensively as well as offensively. Just look at his plus/minus rating.

[Opie 308]

Lids, IMO, ranks higher because I think defense is more important than offense in Hockey, as proven by this SCF, offensively (individually as well) the Pens were a better team, however defensively the wings were leaps and bounds ahead of the Pens.

Yzerman is higher on the list of heroes however on the list of greatest hockey players Lids is above Yzerman in my list.

But we will all disagree to some extent on this topic, because of personal feelings or memories for one or the other.

[yzerman&thewings=CUP 0]

Like the above says, this is hard to compare because they played different positions.

Yzerman had tons of talent but completely changed his game when Bowman arrived so he could switch to a two-way player. So, his stats came down in the early 90s due to that.

I really think Yzerman was a truly great player, and an even better leader(so very humbled, even at his retirement ceremony),

but I'm going to have to say Lidstrom. The reason he hardly ever got hurt was because he knew how to play that way, its not just luck, this guy ALWAYS knows where to be on the ice, as a pure defensemen he is the greatest of all time. Orr will be better known because he scored a lot more, but speaking from a purely defense perspective, its not even close, Lidstrom wins hands down.

[JeeSpot82 10]

I take one exception to your post.

Bobby Orr was amazing defensively as well as offensively. Just look at his plus/minus rating.

Definitely amazing. No doubt about it. I'm strictly pointing out that you could get an argument from some fans that his offense was a detriment to playing pure defense. Their styles of play, though the same position, vary almost as differently as comparing a winger to a defenseman. It's difficult to compare any two players in hockey because everyone's style or manner is different - if only slightly. To compare two players like Orr and Lidstrom will take much more brain power than I've got.

Another number that doesn't seem to come up when Orr vs. Lidstrom arguments arise is Stanley Cups. By my count, it's 4-2 Lidstrom.

[egroen 384]

A lot of that is because of Gretzky and Lemieux...

... and Messier, Jagr & Sakic --> plus guys like Forsberg, Lindros, Fedorov, Hull, Bure, Selanne were all peaking during Yzerman's years.

Yzerman has had a lot more competition than Lidstrom. It would be interesting how many Norrises Lidstrom would have if he was playing in the 80s-90s when there were a lot more elite defenders around.

[egroen 384]

I have heard convincing arguments that Orr was better than Gretzky and Lemiuex... but never one that Lidstrom was better than Orr.

Coffey scored like Orr, but his defense *did* suffer because of it... he was like an extra center. That is not the case with Orr (or Bourque).

Top 35?

Geez, are you sure he should be in the top 100?

Well, I go back pretty far. Not sure how many of you would include Howie Morenz or "Newsy" LaLonde, but I do. I also include Kharlamanov.

Edited June 10, 2008 by egroen

[yzerman&thewings=CUP 0]

... and Messier, Jagr & Sakic --> plus guys like Forsberg, Lindros, Fedorov, Hull, Bure, Selanne were all peaking during Yzerman's years.

Yzerman has had a lot more competition than Lidstrom. It would be interesting how many Norrises Lidstrom would have if he was playing in the 80s-90s when there were a lot more elite defenders around.

I think Pronger, Neidermayer, Phaneuf, Gonchar, Chara and Rafalski all qualify as elite defenders, so don't give me that. While some of these guys may not have won the Norris(yet), it doesn't mean we aren't in an era where defensemen aren't elite.

[hallelujahlogic 1]

i think lids'll probably go down as a better player.

never a better captain, though.

and...stevie will always ALWAYS be first in my heart.

[egroen 384]

Pronger, Neidermayer, Phaneuf, Gonchar, Chara and Rafalski all qualify as elite defenders...

I would be interested in someone trying to put any of those guys at the same level as:

Bourque, Potvin, Robinson, Park, Chelios... even Coffey and MacInnis.

Those are the guys you should be trying to compare Lidstrom to, not the ones you mentioned. Only Pronger has reached that level, but he has nowhere even close to the consistency. Phaneuf could... but he is still very young.

Guys like Bourque and Chelios were giving Lidstrom a run for his money for the Norris when they were *40*.

You also forgot Zubov... he is definitely up there from this generation.

Edited June 10, 2008 by egroen

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

I'm actually surprised so many people picked Lidstrom, because I thought it would be more even, with Yzerman possibly getting the slight nod.

However, I'm pleased that this hasn't turned into a popularity contest yet. Also, I think if this was asked 2 years ago, or even last year, most people would pick Yzerman.

[Reds4Life 51]

I would be interested in someone trying to put any of those guys at the same level as:

Bourque, Potvin, Robinson, Park, Chelios... even Coffey and MacInnis.

Those are the guys you should be trying to compare Lidstrom to, not the ones you mentioned. Only Pronger has reached that level, but he has nowhere even close to the consistency. Phaneuf could... but he is still very young.

Guys like Bourque and Chelios were giving Lidstrom a run for his money for the Norris when they were *40*.

You also forgot Zubov... he is definitely up there from this generation.

I agree. Lidstrom at his best did not faced all time greats like Bourque, but he would win Norris against anyone but Orr and Bourque imho.

Potvin is very very close to Lidstrom, Harvey and Shore are close too.

Bobby Orr is without a doubt the best in both offensive and defensive aspect of the game.

Edited June 10, 2008 by Reds4Life

[bellarina 1]

Lidstrom is just amazing in all aspects of the game.

Yzerman was also amazing and much more than that. When a player is able to make the sacrifices Stevie made it speaks volumes not only about ability but ab out character. Taking a reduction in points to help the team, playing on one leg, blocking shots with your 1 good leg...thats the stuff legends are made of.

Yes, Lids is amazing but did he really make sacrifices?? Maybe he didn't have too.

God now I feel horrible!!! Sorry Lids..if you read this, I wouldn't trade you for Bobby Orr.

I just prefer Stevie.

My rankings are. ALL TIME, Stevie, Lids, Shanny, Vladdy ETC

No really all time, Stevie, Lids, Orr, Maurice Rocket Richard.

[Matt 1,048]

Yzerman is by far my favorite player of all time, but when Lidstrom retires he will be "ranked" higher than Yzerman in terms of the game's overall top NHL players.

And that's definitely no slight to Yzerman's greatness, it's just a testament to just how. damn. good. Lidstrom has been over his NHL career.

[wingnut40 176]

Like the above says, this is hard to compare because they played different positions.

Yzerman had tons of talent but completely changed his game when Bowman arrived so he could switch to a two-way player. So, his stats came down in the early 90s due to that.

I really think Yzerman was a truly great player, and an even better leader(so very humbled, even at his retirement ceremony),

but I'm going to have to say Lidstrom. The reason he hardly ever got hurt was because he knew how to play that way, its not just luck, this guy ALWAYS knows where to be on the ice, as a pure defensemen he is the greatest of all time. Orr will be better known because he scored a lot more, but speaking from a purely defense perspective, its not even close, Lidstrom wins hands down.

I think you said it perfectly. Stevie is probably a better leader, but Nick's still early in his captaincy. Stevie probably means more to then fans, but Nick is the better player. Stevie's still number one in my heart though.

[Slave 31]

Yzerman is my alltime favorite player, but if i was picking a GM of a team and got to pick my alltime best team, i think i would take lidstrom b4 the captain (probably just 1 pick before though)

[C-TownWing 0]

If it weren't for a guy named Bobby Orr, Lidstrom would be starting to get recognition as possibly the best D to ever play the game.

Yzerman's an all-time great to be sure and he'll always be my all-time favorite Wing for all the well-known reasons, but I don't think he's quite in the same category.

Put it this way. It's always said that Yzerman never got his due because he had to play center in the same era as Gretzky and Lemieux. But a guy in the Lidstrom category wouldn't have that problem, because he'd BE Gretzky or Lemieux.

[Dano33 41]

When comparing Yzerman to Lidstrom, I have to go Lidstrom, His consistency does it for me here.

Comparing Lidstrom to other D-men like Orr, i think is tough to tell. The game is almost impossibly different now than when Orr played. I think, just my opinion, the league on a whole is much better now than it was then. 3rd and 4th liners are better and goalies are better. If defensemen like Orr were to play today i believe they would have a much tougher time going end to end and jumping up in the play, and would pay much more dearly on the defensive end for it.

Many people will take Orr because of his scoring and "The Goal", which was a nice play to win the cup, but wouldn't be nearly as remembered if he hadn't been tripped up afterword. But i will take Lidstrom, a consistent well positioned defenseman, who never seems to get caught off gaurd and can put the puck in the net too.