The Great Brett Favre Kerfuffle of 2008

[dallas27 7]

I don't know why people are so surprised / every other emotion out there.

My friend mentioned to me yesterday how months ago I called he would be coming back. In fact I even joked around about it in the Brett Favre retires thread;

He's going to un-retire half way through the season and lead them into the playoffs.

It's really only natural what he is doing. After the season he had last year how is anyone surprised he didn't have thoughts to come back?

[BlakChamber 8]

I think Aaron Rodgers is going to snap and pull a Nancy Kerrigan on Favre.

[octopusonice 0]

He didn't find a reason to delay his decision last year. He announced he was coming back by the Super Bowl. If he was in such a hurry to get attention, he could've let it play out until at least the draft/start of free agency with no detriment to the team.

So if we're counting, you give him the benefit of the doubt 3 years ago, no benefit of the doubt two years ago (even though he announced he was coming back in a time-frame that was right in line with when all the old greats tend to announce a return), and last year there was no "waffle" since he announced he was coming back about a month after the season ended. Hardly enough to make the flip-flop this year "tiresome". People don't remember the reasons for it, just that there was drama the past few years.

It's amazing that he's the only high-profile athlete who has ever had trouble walking away from the game he loves.....oh wait.

Staubach and Bradshaw were pre-ESPN. Montana retired pre-internet. Young and Elway retired before the internet was as big as it is now. Young pretty much had to retire due to concussions (and even then he waited until (OMG) mid-June to announce he was hanging it up). Elway waffled himself on at least one occasion--after they won the Super Bowl, he didn't announce his return until early June (and the next year he didn't hang it up until late April/early May).

Of course the Favre stuff has been played out in the media more. Pretty much every high-profile story is, in the internet-era and the age of ESPNews. Elway is the only one of the examples you mentioned that could remotely be compared to Favre (at least the internet was around and his retirement wasn't due to injury) and it appears he had trouble making up his mind as well, though I have to imagine that winning back to back Super Bowls helped him into retirement.

Good points. Part of the reason this is a media circus is because of the media itself. Favre is the only group of those players to waffle on retirement, however.

Favre's actions have put the Packers in an untenable situation, because if they are to go with Favre, then when he finally does retire (for real this time), Rodgers will likely be disgruntled and leave when his contract is up and Green Bay will have to do a bigger rebuild.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

I don't know why people are so surprised / every other emotion out there.

My friend mentioned to me yesterday how months ago I called he would be coming back. In fact I even joked around about it in the Brett Favre retires thread;

It's really only natural what he is doing. After the season he had last year how is anyone surprised he didn't have thoughts to come back?

I agree. Which begs the question, if everyone pretty much knew Favre would want to come back, why didn't he?

the whole thing (including the media coverage) is just getting a little old, that's all.

[octopusonice 0]

You don't even know WHY he keeps coming back. You have no informed basis for your judgment against someone you know little-to-nothing about...

You are no more informed to be supportive of Brett Favre, than I am to be critical of him.

Although I do not have insider access to this saga, I am still entitled to form an opinion on it. Life is not something that you live in a vacuum simply because you don't have first hand knowledge about everything you observe.

I didn't know George Bush, Bill Clinton, Ronald Reagan, Michael Dukakis, Walter Mondale, George W. Bush, Al Gore or John Kerry personally. I did not participate in their campaigns, nor did I know their mindsets. Yet myself and millions of others had the audacity to vote for some of these people (and by implication we voted against the others, thus 'passing judgement' on them) in presidential elections.

If you don't like turning to ESPN channels and reading his name, turn off the TV or find another channel.

Just as I don't watch All My Children or Days of Our Lives, I probably will quit watching ESPN for awhile.

edit: clarity

Edited August 4, 2008 by octopusonice

[Icteria virens 11]

First and foremost IV, you need to relax. I'm not ripping anything past great teams have, simply pointing out the obvious that a team is more likely to win more often with fewer teams to compete against. As for knowing Mr. I, where the hell did you come up with insinuating something like that. Bottom line, aside from Packer487 summing up my thoughts to your response perfectly.

You don't like Favre, fine....we get it. Common sense however states that you and Sal may not be correct though. I can show you stats for any great QB that suggests that they aren't flawless. Bart wasn't, nor any other QB. The truth is, for every rough stat you can find for Favre, I can post two for what makes him arguably the best to play the game. You may just have different criteria for that than most people.

you're the one who needs to relax, I even put a smiley face after that.

yes you are ripping past teams, so I take it that the Red Wings SC's of the 30's, 40's and 50's don't count as much as the newer ones??????????? You NEVER did answer my question.

see that's the problem with Favre, it's all about his stats and never about the team, when the pressure's on, he faulters every time. He had his chance last year and couldn't pull it out, he's done nothing in the playoffs since 1997.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

you're the one who needs to relax, I even put a smiley face after that.

Putting a smiley face in the middle of a 10-paragraph rant does not make you sound relaxed.

yes you are ripping past teams

No, I'm really not. I'm saying statistically teams are more likely to win championships with less teams to play against. That's not ripping, that statistical mathematics.

so I take it that the Red Wings SC's of the 30's, 40's and 50's don't count as much as the newer ones??????????? You NEVER did answer my question.

Yes, any championship from any era counts just as much as any other, but that doesn't refute what I stated above.

see that's the problem with Favre, it's all about his stats and never about the team, when the pressure's on, he faulters every time. He had his chance last year and couldn't pull it out, he's done nothing in the playoffs since 1997.

How do you feel about Marino?

[Icteria virens 11]

Putting a smiley face in the middle of a 10-paragraph rant does not make you sound relaxed.

No, I'm really not. I'm saying statistically teams are more likely to win championships with less teams to play against. That's not ripping, that statistical mathematics.

Yes, any championship from any era counts just as much as any other, but that doesn't refute what I stated above.

How do you feel about Marino?

you can't say teams are more likely to win a championship b/c there's fewer teams in the league and then say it counts just as much as any other as a way to save face, you can't have it both ways, if it was easier to win a championship back then those championships mustn't count as much as they were easier to obtain. If it was so easy to win where were the Hawks and Bruins all those years? Did you ever consider the fact that the league wasn't as watered down then? if you didn't fight every day to keep your job there was always some farm kid from Saskatchewan or Nova Scotia ready to take your place.

Marino was a much better QB than Favre, early on Favre could scramble but that's his only advantage. I know you're getting at how he never won a super bowl but Favre's got as many as Trent Dilfer and Dilfer isn't better than Marino. Like I said before, that 96 team was stacked, the defense gave up 12 more points all year than the 85 Bears. They had a ton a free agents that were on that team only because Reggie White went there. Sorry, but Black NFL free agents in the 1970-90's didn't go to Green Bay before that. They mostly didn't even consider it. I mean, the Black Packers of that time literally had to go down to Milwaukee to get proper haircuts b/c nobody in GB knew how to cut their hair. They were a franchise in freefall since the early 70's.

Desmond Howard was the SB31 MVP. FAvre is lucky to have gotten his one, not to mention next year, SB32 ranks still as one of the biggest choke jobs ever in SB history. Denver was what, 14 point dogs, the second biggest underdog all time and they won. where was brett then? Same place as he was against Phila in the Divisional and against the Giants at Lambeau in the cold - absent. Where was he in the PO's against St Louis? was that 5 or 6 playoff INT's he threw, in a SINGLE PLAYOFF GAME? I can't remember. Where was he in Dallas like 8 times? Nowhere to be found except chucking picks on the "artificially highly crowned middle of the Cowboys field" as John Madden and Favre apologist likes to call it. Bottom line: when the pressure's on - he can't deliver.

Yeah, he's played long enough to get the stats, like I said, I knew all along he'd come back 2 years ago even they were 3-13 because he was so close to all those records his ego wouldn't let it happen otherwise. But he's got a tough time deciding if he'll come back to a 13-3 team? After the 3-13 season he was able to make his quickest decision b/c he knew he needed to get those records. And he says how he doesn't care about the records but yet after he threw 421 he went running around like a little 4 year old at Chucky Cheese's but the records "dont matter". I haven't seen him so excited since 1997.

[Packer487 3]

you can't say teams are more likely to win a championship b/c there's fewer teams in the league and then say it counts just as much as any other as a way to save face, you can't have it both ways, if it was easier to win a championship back then those championships mustn't count as much as they were easier to obtain. If it was so easy to win where were the Hawks and Bruins all those years? Did you ever consider the fact that the league wasn't as watered down then? if you didn't fight every day to keep your job there was always some farm kid from Saskatchewan or Nova Scotia ready to take your place.

Are you for real? Just because it might be an easier road to a title doesn't make it count any less. If a team doesn't play anyone good the whole time (like say, MSU basketball in 2000) it still counts just the same as any other. Just as the "old" titles still count the same even if they didn't have to win as many games.

The fact remains, though, that the Packers won 1 playoff game to win two titles, 2 playoff games to win two of the titles, and then finally three playoff games to win one of them. More games = more chances to get beat. You see it all the time. The Giants, Steelers, and one of those Broncos teams all came from the wild card round to win the Super Bowl. They wouldn't have sniffed the playoffs back in the day, but they were able to upset some of the teams that would have been in the postseason.

And I don't think it's fair to say that the any sports league is more watered down than it was back with less teams. Athletes have gotten better. People have gotten faster and stronger. Offenses have evolved. I think it would be very fair to say there are many more high-quality football players now than there were 30 years ago, so I don't agree that things are more watered down.

Not to mention there's free agency and a salary cap now. It's a lot harder to keep a quality team together than it was back in the day. Hence why dynasties have been so rare in the cap era but they weren't all that uncommon previously.

Marino was a much better QB than Favre, early on Favre could scramble but that's his only advantage. I know you're getting at how he never won a super bowl but Favre's got as many as Trent Dilfer and Dilfer isn't better than Marino. Like I said before, that 96 team was stacked, the defense gave up 12 more points all year than the 85 Bears. They had a ton a free agents that were on that team only because Reggie White went there. Sorry, but Black NFL free agents in the 1970-90's didn't go to Green Bay before that. They mostly didn't even consider it. I mean, the Black Packers of that time literally had to go down to Milwaukee to get proper haircuts b/c nobody in GB knew how to cut their hair. They were a franchise in freefall since the early 70's.

Wait, so does playoff performance count or not? Marino was the better quarterback because...well...you don't present any evidence as to why. But Favre is a choker and can't get it done in the clutch, despite evidence to the contrary.

I'm one of those people that doesn't think championships mean everything, especially in a sport like football. You're correct that Dilfer having a title doesn't mean he's better than Marino. But it's stupid to say Marino is better and cite Favre's "choking" as part of the reason he's overrated.

Yes, the Packers defense was great in 1996. But the offense was also rated #1 in the league, despite a slew of injuries that forced them to start Terry Mickens at WR for a time and then grab Andre Rison off waivers. Actually, I believe they were statistically the most dominant of all the Super Bowl championship teams. At least they were as of a few years ago. But Favre didn't play a part in that. Nosir. They scored 30+ points 11 times in 19 games. 20+ points 17 out of 19 games (Brooks, Freeman and Chmura missed one of the games, Brooks and Freeman missed the other).

And I've already debunked the whole black free agent thing. The Packers picked up a few free agents (Howard, Wilkerson, Dotson, Jones, Cox) but Jones was the only one who signed prior to 1996. It's just as likely that the quality of the Packers team had something to do with guys wanting to come to Green Bay. I think Reggie did lend some credibility to the team as a legitimate destination, but wait....why did Reggie White come to Green Bay? Oh yeah, it was because of their stellar young QB named Brett Favre. Wow, go figure....

Desmond Howard was the SB31 MVP.

So what? Favre had long TD passes (both on audibles) as well as a TD run. Since he didn't get MVP, does that mean he didn't play well? Favre was the best player on the field in that game, no matter what the MVP voting showed.

FAvre is lucky to have gotten his one, not to mention next year, SB32 ranks still as one of the biggest choke jobs ever in SB history. Denver was what, 14 point dogs, the second biggest underdog all time and they won. where was brett then? Same place as he was against Phila in the Divisional and against the Giants at Lambeau in the cold - absent.

Yeah Favre was just horrible in that game. 25/42 for 256 yards, 3 TDs, 1 INT. He SOUNDLY outplayed John Elway. The Packers lost that game because Mike Holmgren deactivated the only backup defensive end on the roster, and when Gabe Wilkens begged out of the game after he got dinged up, due to fear that he'd make things worse and lose out on a chance to cash in, they had to go with a DT on the edge. Denver ran to that side the entire game.

The Packers lost because of 30/157/3 (in three quarters). Plain and simple.

The fact that you'd call Favre "absent" in that game means that you either didn't watch it, don't know anything about it, or are incapable of seeing anything Brett Favre has done in a positive light. I've blocked that game out almost entirely and I still remember that Favre was amazing. He would've been the MVP of SB XXXII if the defense had come close to doing its job.

Where was he in the PO's against St Louis? was that 5 or 6 playoff INT's he threw, in a SINGLE PLAYOFF GAME? I can't remember.

Yup, we've been through that one already. At first it was 4 or 5. You've been corrected on it and you still "can't remember". It was six. Bill Schroeder cost him at least three by setting the football like it was a volleyball. But it didn't matter, the Packers were completely over-matched. They weren't winning that game anyway.

Where was he in Dallas like 8 times? Nowhere to be found except chucking picks on the "artificially highly crowned middle of the Cowboys field" as John Madden and Favre apologist likes to call it. Bottom line: when the pressure's on - he can't deliver.

Except that Super Bowl title, the upset of the defending champs on the road in 95, the near-perfect performance against Denver that wasn't quite good enough thanks to the defense, etc.

Yeah, he's played long enough to get the stats, like I said, I knew all along he'd come back 2 years ago even they were 3-13 because he was so close to all those records his ego wouldn't let it happen otherwise. But he's got a tough time deciding if he'll come back to a 13-3 team? After the 3-13 season he was able to make his quickest decision b/c he knew he needed to get those records. And he says how he doesn't care about the records but yet after he threw 421 he went running around like a little 4 year old at Chucky Cheese's but the records "dont matter". I haven't seen him so excited since 1997.

Yeah, he had no reason to celebrate breaking one of the most storied records in football. I think records meant more to him than he let on, but I don't think that's the reason he came back. I think he was set to retire until the team came on late in that season and ripped off four wins in a row heading into the offseason.

Now I suppose you'll say that he's coming back because Manning is within striking distance of his records and he wants to put them another season out of reach.

Edited August 5, 2008 by Packer487

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

you can't say teams are more likely to win a championship b/c there's fewer teams in the league and then say it counts just as much as any other as a way to save face, you can't have it both ways, if it was easier to win a championship back then those championships mustn't count as much as they were easier to obtain. If it was so easy to win where were the Hawks and Bruins all those years? Did you ever consider the fact that the league wasn't as watered down then? if you didn't fight every day to keep your job there was always some farm kid from Saskatchewan or Nova Scotia ready to take your place.

Marino was a much better QB than Favre, early on Favre could scramble but that's his only advantage. I know you're getting at how he never won a super bowl but Favre's got as many as Trent Dilfer and Dilfer isn't better than Marino. Like I said before, that 96 team was stacked, the defense gave up 12 more points all year than the 85 Bears. They had a ton a free agents that were on that team only because Reggie White went there. Sorry, but Black NFL free agents in the 1970-90's didn't go to Green Bay before that. They mostly didn't even consider it. I mean, the Black Packers of that time literally had to go down to Milwaukee to get proper haircuts b/c nobody in GB knew how to cut their hair. They were a franchise in freefall since the early 70's.

Desmond Howard was the SB31 MVP. FAvre is lucky to have gotten his one, not to mention next year, SB32 ranks still as one of the biggest choke jobs ever in SB history. Denver was what, 14 point dogs, the second biggest underdog all time and they won. where was brett then? Same place as he was against Phila in the Divisional and against the Giants at Lambeau in the cold - absent. Where was he in the PO's against St Louis? was that 5 or 6 playoff INT's he threw, in a SINGLE PLAYOFF GAME? I can't remember. Where was he in Dallas like 8 times? Nowhere to be found except chucking picks on the "artificially highly crowned middle of the Cowboys field" as John Madden and Favre apologist likes to call it. Bottom line: when the pressure's on - he can't deliver.

Yeah, he's played long enough to get the stats, like I said, I knew all along he'd come back 2 years ago even they were 3-13 because he was so close to all those records his ego wouldn't let it happen otherwise. But he's got a tough time deciding if he'll come back to a 13-3 team? After the 3-13 season he was able to make his quickest decision b/c he knew he needed to get those records. And he says how he doesn't care about the records but yet after he threw 421 he went running around like a little 4 year old at Chucky Cheese's but the records "dont matter". I haven't seen him so excited since 1997.

I'm not trying to save face one bit. I'm stating mathematical statistics in regards to teams being more likely to win when there are less teams in the league. It's not about having it both ways, its about math.

As for you hating Favre....we get it. I don't see eye to eye with you and I'm not about to pick apart the novels you've written because not only has Packer487 done a fine job of that, but you're obviously unwavering in your disdain for Favre so whats the point in arguing?

[timothy1997 0]

ESPN has turned into FavrESPN. The latest....the have Dr. Joy Browne talking about the relationship between #4 & the Packers. it basically went like this.

Favre = the woman

The Packers = the dad

Packer fans = the children

Rodgers = the "other" woman

Tampa Bay = the rebound

Edited August 6, 2008 by timothy1997

[betterREDthandead 58]

ESPN has turned into FavrESPN. The latest....the have Dr. Joy Browne talking about the relationship between #4 & the Packers. it basically went like this.

Favre = the woman

The Packers = the dad

Packer fans = the children

Rodgers = the "other" woman

Tampa Bay = the rebound

Did they really? That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard of ever.

And it's complete bulls*** as Favre was the one "cheating" in the first place. Where do the Vikings come into all this? Are they the mailman?

[timothy1997 0]

Did they really? That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard of ever.

And it's complete bulls*** as Favre was the one "cheating" in the first place. Where do the Vikings come into all this? Are they the mailman?

yup. it was on first take. i turned the tv off after that. I had enough.

I wondered where the Lions where in all of this. are the the idiot neighbors down the block. what about Deanna Favre? If Favre is a woman, then is Deanna a lesbian??

[3chrisosgood0 7]

i figured this deserved its own thread

but finally hes traded to the jets

still havent heard on what the jets gave up

but i assume pennington and a pick or two

the jets look better now

not great but better than 4 wins

i still woulda liked to see him in minnasota

that woulda been interesting

im a lions fan so it woulda been a big loss twice but cmon its the lions its another 7-9 season at best im expecting 5 or 6 wins tho lol

[Saran 1]

i wish he spent his whole career with green bay (other than the short time in atlanta)

Edited August 7, 2008 by Saran

[#19=Legend 29]

i wanted him in minnessota too. they could win a superbowl with favre.

[redwings1914 18]

He would have been better than Kitna

[3chrisosgood0 7]

He would have been better than Kitna

well thats not exactly too hard to do lol

hell the liosn should just throw stanton in there for the hell of it

i mean its not like the lions are expcted to do anything but rack up anotehr high draft pick

lol

i was hopein favre would come to detroit

but it was a dream that would never come true

[octopusonice 0]

Interesting that there's a 'poison pill' provision to discourage the Jets from trading him to Minnesota. If they did, they have to give up three first rounders:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d8...mp;confirm=true

(4th paragraph)

Edited August 7, 2008 by octopusonice

[timothy1997 0]

i figured this deserved its own thread

but finally hes traded to the jets

still havent heard on what the jets gave up

but i assume pennington and a pick or two

the jets look better now

not great but better than 4 wins

i still woulda liked to see him in minnasota

that woulda been interesting

im a lions fan so it woulda been a big loss twice but cmon its the lions its another 7-9 season at best im expecting 5 or 6 wins tho lol

Jets released Pennington.

Pack get a 4th round draft pick and if Favre does well in NY, the Pack get more(better) draft picks.

To me, I dont see the Jets as that good of a team and I dont think he can turn that team around. The only thing they have going for them is the Bills and Dolphins are terrible. Its not gonna take much for the Jets to finish 2nd in the divison behind the Pats.

[The Noodle 39 14]

well thats not exactly too hard to do lol

hell the liosn should just throw stanton in there for the hell of it

i mean its not like the lions are expcted to do anything but rack up anotehr high draft pick

lol

i was hopein favre would come to detroit

but it was a dream that would never come true

The Lions spend money on a great player? Has this ever happened? Were owned by the ford family and thus we will forever be cursed with draft picks and hope they turn us into super bowl champions....

Anyways Favre is my fav football player of all time and is the last of a dieing breed i wish him all the best and i will never watch a packer game again! Go Jets Go! Also Go Lions until week whatever when we are officially eliminated from the playoffs!

[3chrisosgood0 7]

Jets released Pennington.

Pack get a 4th round draft pick and if Favre does well in NY, the Pack get more(better) draft picks.

To me, I dont see the Jets as that good of a team and I dont think he can turn that team around. The only thing they have going for them is the Bills and Dolphins are terrible. Its not gonna take much for the Jets to finish 2nd in the divison behind the Pats.

i dont undestand why the pack wouldnt want pennignton as a vetran back up

the jes obviously didnt want him so it doesnt make great sense for the pack to not just say hey toss pennington in the deal along wit the pick

but it looks like itll be at least a 3rd rounder maybe a 2nd

but i dont see it as a first i dont think the jets can beat out the chargers or pats for a SB bid

[omnipotent_hudler 0]

[betterREDthandead 58]

And so it begins again. I knew it. I knew it'd be foolish to believe this guy when he claims he's retired - for the fifth friggin' time. I used to have respect for Favre. Maybe he was this way all the time, or maybe he's taken a few too many knocks to the head, but this ******* is clearly as big a spoiled prima donna as Chad Johnson and Terrell Owens. Seriously. Go the f*** away.

[timothy1997 0]

cover should say enough.