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The Great Brett Favre Kerfuffle of 2008


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#41 Packer487

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Posted 16 July 2008 - 02:35 AM

QUOTE (betterREDthandead @ July 15, 2008 - 06:59PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You can't claim that the depth chart would consist of one guy and then call Rodgers-Brohm-Flynn "pretty solid."


Uhh...why not? I don't see what one quote has to do with the other. I suppose I could see objecting to me saying that R-B-F is "pretty solid" but I also acknowledged it's a lot of unproven talent.

QUOTE
If Favre retires in March and then doesn't come back, your starting quarterback is Aaron Rodgers and you have a rookie backing him up.
If Favre comes back in March then calls it quits just before preseason, your starting quarterback is Aaron Rodgers and you have a rookie backing him up.


True on both parts, but in the second part, instead of a guy that was thought of as the top player in the draft heading into his senior season, we'd likely have a 7th round draft pick or a street free agent. I suppose it's possible they would have taken Brohm anyway (if they were truly doing BPA), but I wouldn't consider it likely that they'd burn a 2nd round pick on a 3rd string QB when they only carried 2 last year.

QUOTE
And then you probably run out and get someone like Chris Simms, who is not a bad insurance policy. So you're set.


Still, the quarterback group would be downgraded. The Packers have chosen to go with their rookies over every vet on the market, which leads me to believe they think Brohm (inexperience and all) is better than the guys out there.

At least this way, there's a chance (slight as it may be) that we get Favre back, if not there's a chance (decent) that we'll get a very good draft pick out of this (Montana went for a 1st and a player, I believe, and he wasn't coming off a year like Favre had), and Rodgers has gone through the offseason as the starter and they've been able to tweak the offense slightly to him. None of of those benefits exist in the other scenario, our QB position is downgraded, and we probably have to trade a pick to acquire a decent backup QB.

QUOTE
This way, Favre does wrong by every single quarterback on the roster and causes a media circus besides.


How so? I can see how he'd somewhat be doing wrong by Rodgers by coming back, but no one would have blinked if Favre had just announced he was returning, so really, what's the difference? Some disappointment? Please.

Brohm probably doesn't get drafted by Green Bay if Favre announces a return in March, so he's made money off Favre's retirement and the worst-case scenario is he's 3rd string instead of 2nd this year, which would actually probably be a good thing.

Flynn probably gets cut if Favre returns, so you could make a case that Favre would be doing wrong by him. Then again, Green Bay only carried two QBs last year, so it wouldn't be a shocker if he doesn't make the team anyway. It's probably more likely than not he ends up on the practice squad this year, which would probably be the case if Favre returns as well.

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Which they wouldn't have done if he could ever make up his mind. For two or three years now, maybe even longer, we've gone through this question with Favre: will he retire, or won't he? And each year all he ever had to was say, "Look fellas, I still want to play football." Instead every year he waffles.


He waffled so much that last year he announced he was coming back before the Super Bowl. The year before they were coming off a 4-12 season and there was a new coach coming in. Pretty reasonable to take some time to figure out if you want to keep playing after that, no?

You think there aren't these same issues with a lot of older players? The difference is that Favre is more visible than everyone else in this position and--to his detriment--he'll talk to the media about his situation. He doesn't give the canned quotes lots of other guys do.

Can I point out that after the Broncos won their first Super Bowl, John Elway didn't announce he was returning until June 1st. Then he didn't decide he was retiring until mid-April the following year (It was announced May 2nd).

Steve Young also didn't retire until mid-June.

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Can you blame the organization for getting tired of it?


In some ways yes and in some ways no. It would be nice to have had him commit to play 2 or 3 more years, but what player would actually do that? It's not unique for an older player to reevaluate his situation after each season. I think Favre legitimately thought he was done after 2006, but that last winning streak made him believe there might be something to this team. Then there was a very emotional end to this past season...I have no doubts it's hard to think about going through all that preparation again.

I know at the end of seasons I, as a fan, sometimes wonder why I invest so much into games that don't really mean anything in the grand scheme. I wonder why I care so much about the regular season when it means nothing as long as you make the playoffs. Then, come the draft, I can't wait for things to get going again. And that's just me being a FAN.

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The draft is too important to be in a position of not knowing what your marquee player is gonna do.


But...but...we would've been just fine (and not just fine, better off) if Favre had announced he was coming back and then retired at the last moment, right? So I'm not sure how you make that argument.

And the Broncos sure didn't push Elway to make his decision...he didn't announce a comeback until June, well after the Draft. That's the proper thing to do with your legendary quarterback. At least, if you want him back.

QUOTE
I doubt the Packers pressured him to retire. But I absolutely believe the Packers pressured him to make up his mind.


I don't think they pressured him to retire either. But there ya go. They pressured him to make up his mind. He did the responsible thing and retired since he wasn't 100% committed to playing again. Now he realizes he made the wrong choice. To me, if you've got a guy that has a hard time making up his mind, the LAST thing you want to do is pressure him into making a decision quickly. We're supposed to be surprised that this ended up happening?

From MannysBetter:
QUOTE
I will use a Packer comeback here, and say "Why would the Packers pressure the starting QB of a team 1 play away from the Super Bowl to retire?"


I never said the Packers pressured him to retire. Just that they pressured him to make up his mind and subsequently, he did the responsible thing and called it quits, since he wasn't 100% sure.

In hindsight, he should've said, "I need more time to make up my mind," but then the same jagoffs who are calling him a selfish prick would be talking about how he was "holding the team hostage". The only way Favre wins is to make a decision that he can stick with. And telling him "Make it quick" isn't the best way to go about that.

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I still question why Favre "retired" when he has said he never feels like playing at that time of year. It doesn't make sense to me. Now, the Packers are faced with a dilemma between loyalty, and a business move.


It makes perfect sense to me. Green Bay wanted an answer, so he gave them one. He wasn't 100% committed to returning, so he couldn't say he was coming back.

It's an ugly situation and it could've been avoided by simply saying, "Brett, take your time, don't think about football for awhile, and let us know when you decide. We'd appreciate hearing from you before the Draft, but take the time you need to make a good decision that you'll stick with."

Edited by Packer487, 16 July 2008 - 02:36 AM.


#42 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 16 July 2008 - 10:21 AM

QUOTE
After retiring in early March, Favre told the Packers he was having second thoughts and was ready to return a few weeks later. General manager Ted Thompson and coach Mike McCarthy had made plans to take a private plane to Mississippi to seal the deal on Favre's comeback, only to have him change his mind again and stay retired.


http://sports.espn.g...tory?id=3490792

I've always been a Favre fan, but I have to admit this is getting a little ridiculous, and is reflecting poorly on him. I was pretty hard on Niedermayer for his antics, and as much as I like Favre, he's doing a pretty similar thing.


Edited by haroldsnepsts, 16 July 2008 - 10:21 AM.


#43 Packer487

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Posted 16 July 2008 - 01:01 PM

QUOTE (haroldsnepsts @ July 16, 2008 - 10:21AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
http://sports.espn.g...tory?id=3490792

I've always been a Favre fan, but I have to admit this is getting a little ridiculous, and is reflecting poorly on him. I was pretty hard on Niedermayer for his antics, and as much as I like Favre, he's doing a pretty similar thing.


Yeah, ESPN/AP keeps running with that quote. Based on the stuff in the local papers, the interview with Favre, the Packers timeline, and the quotes from TT and MM, I don't believe he ever actually told them "I'm coming back" in March. I think he told them he was having second thoughts, they were going to go talk to him about it, they asked if he was 100% committed and he said no, so they called it off.

I still don't see what's so wrong about changing your mind before training camp even starts. It's not like he's asking to come back Week 12 of the regular season (Niedermayer) or for the start of the playoffs (Forsberg).

They didn't give him the time he needed to make up his mind. He screwed up by not telling them "I need more time". (But then he'd come across as the jag who was "holding the team hostage".) It's not unprecedented for teams to give their QB until the start of training camp to make up their mind. Elway got until June and it disrupted their offseason plans so much that they went out and won the Super Bowl. Young had until mid-June. He's not a QB, but Strahan didn't even come in until after the preseason last year. Gilbert Brown used to take until at least the start of training camp to announce if he was coming back because he hated the offseason stuff.

I wish Favre had handled things differently, but the team could have done a lot of things differently as well. He'll be in town for Frank Winters and Gilbert Brown's Packer Hall of Fame induction this weekend. I imagine there will be a sit-down with TT and MM at some point. Hopefully they can put their differences aside, but I'm not counting on it.

#44 dallas27

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Posted 16 July 2008 - 07:50 PM

He's clearly doing this so he can drop his new movie coming out, There's Something About Mary 2.


It's a Festivus miracle!!!

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#45 timothy1997

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Posted 16 July 2008 - 10:11 PM

QUOTE (Packer487 @ July 16, 2008 - 02:01PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I still don't see what's so wrong about changing your mind before training camp even starts. It's not like he's asking to come back Week 12 of the regular season (Niedermayer) or for the start of the playoffs (Forsberg).

They didn't give him the time he needed to make up his mind. He screwed up by not telling them "I need more time". (But then he'd come across as the jag who was "holding the team hostage".) It's not unprecedented for teams to give their QB until the start of training camp to make up their mind. Elway got until June and it disrupted their offseason plans so much that they went out and won the Super Bowl. Young had until mid-June. He's not a QB, but Strahan didn't even come in until after the preseason last year. Gilbert Brown used to take until at least the start of training camp to announce if he was coming back because he hated the offseason stuff.


That maybe but #4 has tranished his legacy by flip flopping and coming across as an attention *****. And the Packers have hurt their organization by not having a clear cut plan on what to do with #4. To say that they are set with Rodgers as their starter and dont need #4, even if he was available and wanted to play for GB, is absurd. #4 has earned the right to be the GB starting QB, regardless who is next in line. And if the Packers dont want him back, then let #4 get whatever he wants, including his unconditional release.

Shame on #4! Shame on the Packers!! Hope everything gets straighten out quickly. Someday soon, they will have to recongize #4's accomplishment, ie retiring #4, NFL HOF.

#46 mannysBETTER3434

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Posted 16 July 2008 - 10:12 PM

QUOTE (Packer487 @ July 16, 2008 - 01:35AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
From MannysBetter:


I never said the Packers pressured him to retire. Just that they pressured him to make up his mind and subsequently, he did the responsible thing and called it quits, since he wasn't 100% sure.


I never said you did, I was just replying to BRTD. I will admit, you have almost pushed a few times through out this thread to jump on the other side of the fence with you because of your passion for Favre...I cannot disrespect that.

But I'm going to try and stop posting about this because neither side can change what happened. Both sides probably should have done things a little different, but overall I am just getting annoyed big time by this when I watch TV, or read the paper.

#47 Packer487

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Posted 17 July 2008 - 12:24 AM

QUOTE (timothy1997 @ July 16, 2008 - 10:11PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
That maybe but #4 has tranished his legacy by flip flopping and coming across as an attention *****. And the Packers have hurt their organization by not having a clear cut plan on what to do with #4. To say that they are set with Rodgers as their starter and dont need #4, even if he was available and wanted to play for GB, is absurd. #4 has earned the right to be the GB starting QB, regardless who is next in line. And if the Packers dont want him back, then let #4 get whatever he wants, including his unconditional release.


He hasn't hurt his legacy. Short-term, maybe. Long-term, no one will remember or care. The only way it would be more than a footnote on his career is if he took a team to the Super Bowl.

Playing for Washington in no way has hurt Jordan's legacy.
Playing for Carolina didn't hurt Reggie. Hell, I'm as big of a Packer fan as there is an I barely remember that that happened.
Coaching Washington didn't hurt how Lombardi is revered in Green Bay (even though he retired and then came out of retirement to take over the Redskins).
The only reason people will remember that Bourque played for the Avs is that he won a Cup. He'll be a Bruin forever.
Namath made an ill-advised decision to play for the Rams...no one mentions that now.

Plenty of guys have flip-flopped on retirement. Pretty much everyone (the Packers included) expected this at some point. That act in it of itself isn't attention whoring (though I do think Brett does some of that--if nothing else, he's just way too honest with the media), it's the life of a high-profile athlete faced with the prospects of walking away for good.

QUOTE
I never said you did, I was just replying to BRTD. I will admit, you have almost pushed a few times through out this thread to jump on the other side of the fence with you because of your passion for Favre...I cannot disrespect that.


Ah ok, misunderstood what you meant by "a Packer comeback".

I appreciate what you said, though.

Picking between the Packers and Favre would be like asking a parent to pick between their kids. I don't want to have to do it this season.

#48 timothy1997

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Posted 17 July 2008 - 07:20 AM

QUOTE (Packer487 @ July 17, 2008 - 01:24AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
He hasn't hurt his legacy. Short-term, maybe. Long-term, no one will remember or care. The only way it would be more than a footnote on his career is if he took a team to the Super Bowl.


Think again. Barry Sanders was beloved in this town. WAS is the key word because with his sudden retirement, there are some people that still have ill will towards him. You dont think it will hurt his legacy now, but it will once everything is settled.

The other comparisons are BS because they all left and returned in good terms. This is not on good terms.

Oh and the better NFL comparison isnt reggie white, but emmitt smith. Reggie to me, is best known as an Eagle...not a Packer.



#49 Packer487

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Posted 17 July 2008 - 12:22 PM

QUOTE (timothy1997 @ July 17, 2008 - 07:20AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Think again. Barry Sanders was beloved in this town. WAS is the key word because with his sudden retirement, there are some people that still have ill will towards him. You dont think it will hurt his legacy now, but it will once everything is settled.

The other comparisons are BS because they all left and returned in good terms. This is not on good terms.

Oh and the better NFL comparison isnt reggie white, but emmitt smith. Reggie to me, is best known as an Eagle...not a Packer.


Barry retired on the eve of training camp and completely screwed the team over the process. If he had up and retired at the start of the offseason, people would have been like, "Yeah, can't blame him. The Lions suck!"

Favre has done nothing wrong.

No one is going to remember this 20 years from now, especially if he doesn't end up playing for another team. But even if he does, in the long run, no one is going to care.

You want to bring up Emmitt Smith, fine. Does anyone really remember--or care--about him ending his career as a Cardinal? Honest-to-God, I forgot about it until someone posted a picture of him in a Cardinals uniform on another board.

I'm not going to argue with you if you personally remember Reggie as an Eagle. He was a 7-time Pro Bowler with the Eagles and a 6-time Pro Bowler with the Packers. He was certainly more dominant in Philly, but he had some amazing years with the Packers as well. In terms of what team he'll be remembered with, I give the edge to Green Bay because I'm biased because of the Super Bowl win and the images of him walking off the field holding the trophy high in the air.

#50 betterREDthandead

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Posted 17 July 2008 - 07:33 PM

QUOTE (Packer487 @ July 17, 2008 - 01:22PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Favre has done nothing wrong.

Nonsense.

You make a strong case for Favre - I'm finding it mostly not worth arguing about because ultimately I don't like either party. I have a hard time "picking sides" because of my deep and abiding dislike for the Packers and most everything associated.

(And now that the Vikings have been dragged into it with tampering charges: wheeee! I hope they lose draft picks. Just because.)

BUT....."Favre has done nothing wrong".....NO. Favre has not handled this well at all and has been wrong ever since he put the Packers in this position. Gene Wojceoiergjerfheruohfkowski on ESPN says Favre has earned the right to act this way because of how good he is. No. Favre has earned the right to walk out of the game on his own terms, which he did. He now wants back on his own terms. This isn't similar to the Barry Sanders retirement, it's more like the 2nd Hasek-go-round with Cujo.
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#51 Packer487

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Posted 18 July 2008 - 01:50 AM

QUOTE (betterREDthandead @ July 17, 2008 - 07:33PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Nonsense.


Let me rephrase. Favre has done nothing wrong by deciding that he wants to play football again. I agree that he could have handled things differently, as could the Packers. It seems there's been a major lack of communication between the parties throughout this situation, which has made it a lot worse than it should have been.

The biggest breakdown was that if the Packers truly would have been open to him taking until training camp to make up his mind, they should have communicated that to Brett.

I'm really interested to see how this tampering thing plays out...To see who called who and when. The "when" is the biggie for me.

#52 timothy1997

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Posted 18 July 2008 - 10:00 AM

QUOTE (Packer487 @ July 18, 2008 - 02:50AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm really interested to see how this tampering thing plays out...To see who called who and when. The "when" is the biggie for me.

that is the biggest nonsense of them all. Vikes QB coach is #4's friend. It's not tampering for two buddies to call and "shoot the bull" like #4 says.

#53 betterREDthandead

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Posted 18 July 2008 - 10:20 AM

QUOTE (timothy1997 @ July 18, 2008 - 11:00AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
that is the biggest nonsense of them all. Vikes QB coach is #4's friend. It's not tampering for two buddies to call and "shoot the bull" like #4 says.

That's probably true, but I don't care: I hate the Vikings too, and if they lose a draft pick or two because the league finds they tampered, I'm not gonna shed any tears.
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#54 Packer487

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Posted 18 July 2008 - 11:47 AM

QUOTE (timothy1997 @ July 18, 2008 - 10:00AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
that is the biggest nonsense of them all. Vikes QB coach is #4's friend. It's not tampering for two buddies to call and "shoot the bull" like #4 says.


Again, we just don't know what "evidence" the Packers have. If Favre and Bevell had some conversations, it's absolutely nothing. If Favre talked to Brad Childress? Probably more than nothing.

I'm not on Thompson's side in this situation, but the tampering charge was absolutely brilliant. It makes it look like Favre was trying an end-around on the Packers and dealing with one of their biggest rivals, plus it pretty much kills any shot he'd ever end up in Minnesota, plus he causes some internal strife in Minnesota, since they've been trying to put on a brave face and pump up Tarvaris Jackson publicly.

Our GM may be a complete prick, but he's playing this game perfectly. Damn him.

#55 Icteria virens

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Posted 20 July 2008 - 08:43 PM

QUOTE (F.Michael @ July 15, 2008 - 09:08AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm probably 1 of the very few (in the state of Wisconsin) who isn't a fan of the guy, & my beef with Favre is that he was contemplating retirement for quite some time before he finally did "retire" this past spring - mind you after what was a damn fine season.

IMO both sides are looking a bit suspicious with their intentions; hard to judge from the media as to who's the "good guy", & who's the "bad guy" in this mess.


I've never been a fan of the guy either, that makes 2 of us. I bet we're about the only ones in the state though. the sad thing is he knows he can pull this crap because everybody in the state is so Packer-crazy that they'll fall on a sword defending him no matter what. It's been that way through his whole career. No matter how many times he chucks the ball up into triple coverage people will always make excuses for him. This isn't LA or New York. GB is more like Lincoln, NE or Iowa City, IA.

here's a time line of events.

He's pulled this "will I , won't I retire" for the last 3-4 years. He's been a QB in the NFL for 17 years and by now knows what it entails to go through all the motions that come with it. This year especially he's had trouble deciding if he wants to come back to a 13-3 team that was a few points from going to the Super Bowl. Hard decision?

Over the last 3-4 years during the offseason Packers management has made annual trips down to talk with him and convince him to come back the next year. They have also regularly called him to keep in touch. Maybe the Packers management didn't go down enough times to kiss his robe this year or just got sick of doing it. Either way he feels "unimportant" and "not needed". I'm not sure what happened to him as a boy but somebody didn't love him enough.

He decides to retire and has a press conference on March 3rd saying he's "just got nothing left to give" and his heart isn't in it anymore.

In late March, only about 3 weeks later, he calls up Packer management and says he's had a change of heart and wants to come back. Packers management say "OK" and charter a private jet to go to MS for the press conference. Sidenote: to all the conspiracy theorists out there about how Ted Thompson (GM) and the Packers Management etc. don't want him anymore and are trying to run him out of town please explain this.
Just 2 days, yes 2 days, later he calls up the Packers and says he's changed his mind again and wants to stay retired.

Mid-April the NFL Draft comes and the GB Packers are moving ahead and draft accordingly.

OTA's and mini camps (which Favre, in the later stages of his carreer, never wanted to attend and had to be told to attend by coach McCarthy) are undertaken by current Packer players with new plays & formations put in and practised with Aaron Rodgers as QB.

July 20th. Brett Favre calls up coach Mike McCarthy and says he's thinking of coming back. Mike McCarthy asks Brett if he's 100% committed to that and Brett Favre answers "No". This is in his own words BTW from part 1 of the Greta Van Sustren interview.

Brett's brother and mother start talking to the media about him and how he wants to come back. Certain statements are leaked to friendly MS press and rumours start flying. This causes alot of panic and talk here in WI among his many long-time fans. The only 'response' by Brett to all this for days on end is a 3 word text message to a friendly reporter in MS "It's all rumour". Thanks #4 for all the help in clearing this all up (sarcasm) Don't the fans deserve more?

His agent James "bus" Cook asks the Packers to unconditionaly release him. This would be the worst thing the Packers could do and refuse.
The Packers ask Bus Cook for a list of teams he'd like to play for - Brett Favre and his agent have yet to supply the Packers with this list.

His wife DeAnna emails Greta van Sustren of Fox News and Brett appears on her show over 3 nights July 14-16th. He admits he still doesn't know if he'll play or if he'll reapply for reinstatement. On the 3rd show (outtakes of things edited out of the first 2 programs) he admits to telling management that they should've signed Randy Moss, not let 2 OL go to other teams and that the Packers should've interviewed his personal friend Steve Mariucci for the head coaching position 2 years ago. Sounds to me like he thinks he's also the GM.

The GB Packers file tampering charges against the Minnesota Vikings near the end of this week. There is said to have been not only phone calls between Brett Favre and Favre's friend Darren Bevell of Minn. but between Favre and head coach Brad Childress. There is also suppossedly conversation between Minn. Viking personnel and a staffer for the Packers. There is said to be valid evidence of tampering. In fact, some have suggested that the interest that Minn. has shown in Favre has prompted him to seriously think about playing again as they are thought to strongly desired his services.

There is also a report of Brett Favre having dinner with the Tampa Bay Bucs GM, one of the teams he's been linked with. Brett Favre states to a Tampa area newspaper that he's not "too hot" on Tampa Bay as a team of destination as he "prefers a cool climate". Was this last comment made to seem like he doesn't want out of cold Green Bay? Did anybody see his face during the Chicago game this past season? Do you realise that during the first 30 games of his career where the temp was under 30 degrees he lost only a few of those games and over the last 30 games where the temp is below 30degrees he's 8-22?

As of today he is yet to apply for reinstatement and doesn't know if he will. Well,,,,,,,, then what was all this "4" anyway?

He is not bigger than the team, no player ever has been. We've had alot of great players wear the green and gold: Hutson, Hinkle, Canadeo, Blood McNally, Hubbard, Michalske, Herber, Starr, Ringo, Taylor, Davis, Thurston, Nitschke, Wood, Hornung, Gregg, Adderly, Jordon, Lofton, White.



#56 Packer487

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Posted 21 July 2008 - 12:00 AM

QUOTE (Icteria virens @ July 20, 2008 - 08:43PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
There is also a report of Brett Favre having dinner with the Tampa Bay Bucs GM, one of the teams he's been linked with. Brett Favre states to a Tampa area newspaper that he's not "too hot" on Tampa Bay as a team of destination as he "prefers a cool climate". Was this last comment made to seem like he doesn't want out of cold Green Bay? Did anybody see his face during the Chicago game this past season? Do you realise that during the first 30 games of his career where the temp was under 30 degrees he lost only a few of those games and over the last 30 games where the temp is below 30degrees he's 8-22?


There are a few things in this post that I don't really agree with, but I've gone through it all before, so that's cool...

I believe the thing about him having dinner with the Tampa GM has been debunked. It would've come out by now if the Packers had given him permission for that, and if the Bucs were trying to do it secretly, I highly doubt they would've taken one of the most high-profile athletes in the world out to dinner at a busy restaurant. This story has made the rounds, so I'm guessing if it was true, Minnesota wouldn't be the only club to have tampering charges filed against them.

As for the <30 degrees stat, there's absolutely no way that's correct--or even close to correct. The New York Post has his all-time <34 degree stat at 42-11 (It'd be 42-12 after the Giants game).

According to his official site, he's 40-5 at home in the cold. I don't know when that was last updated, but there's no way he's played that many cold-weather road games (especially with Detroit and Minnesota having domes).

#57 F.Michael

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Posted 21 July 2008 - 12:18 AM

QUOTE (Icteria virens @ July 20, 2008 - 08:43PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I've never been a fan of the guy either, that makes 2 of us. I bet we're about the only ones in the state though. the sad thing is he knows he can pull this crap because everybody in the state is so Packer-crazy that they'll fall on a sword defending him no matter what. It's been that way through his whole career. No matter how many times he chucks the ball up into triple coverage people will always make excuses for him. This isn't LA or New York. GB is more like Lincoln, NE or Iowa City, IA.

I've always looked @ Favre as a guy with a million dollar arm, but it's being controlled by a 10 cent brain.

'Evolution' created by Offsides

#58 Hiei

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Posted 28 July 2008 - 12:26 AM

Favre + Detroit's #1 pick WRs over the last few years = 60-70 pts a game. Might rival the Pistons in scoring.

Sorry, I'll take my BEARS any day of the week.

I don't care if they go 2-14...so long as the 2 are over the PACKERS!

"Hit em with your purse, ya *****!" - Random Wings fans shouting at Franziska


#59 wingsdiehard13

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Posted 28 July 2008 - 11:25 AM

QUOTE (Packer487 @ July 18, 2008 - 02:50AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Let me rephrase. Favre has done nothing wrong by deciding that he wants to play football again. I agree that he could have handled things differently, as could the Packers. It seems there's been a major lack of communication between the parties throughout this situation, which has made it a lot worse than it should have been.

The biggest breakdown was that if the Packers truly would have been open to him taking until training camp to make up his mind, they should have communicated that to Brett.

I'm really interested to see how this tampering thing plays out...To see who called who and when. The "when" is the biggie for me.

It wasn't tampering for one. And two, if it was a Packers issued cell phone, that's against the CBA

**Thanks Offsides**
**Thanks TeeMan**

#60 Icteria virens

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Posted 31 July 2008 - 03:10 PM

Brett Fahhvvv raahhhh is overrated................................. he's not even the best QB to ever play for the Packers. .......


Yes, Favre played long enough to throw the most touchdown passes and collect the most wins by an NFL quarterback. But let's examine the second half of No. 4's career. The truth is, Favre did little over the past decade to earn the gushing praise heaped upon him by our fawning brethren in the media.

After beating the San Francisco 49ers in the 1997 NFC Championship Game, Favre won just three of his last 10 playoff games. Eli Manning had more postseason wins in a 29-day span this past season than Favre had in his last decade with the Green Bay Packers.

Yes, Favre won a Super Bowl -- 11 years ago! But as his career arc spiraled downward, the blind adulation only got worse.

Favre's passer rating in his last 12 postseason games was a pedestrian 77.8. In his last five wild-card games, he went 2-3 with more interceptions (nine) than touchdown passes (seven). In his last three divisional playoff games, he went 1-2 with seven TDs and seven interceptions. That's a 3-5 record with 14 touchdown passes and 16 picks.

In two of his last four postseason appearances, Favre threw two of the most unthinkable playoff interceptions in NFL history, both in overtime -- to Brian Dawkins of the Philadelphia Eagles in 2003 and to Corey Webster of the New York Giants in January. In fact, Favre is the only quarterback in NFL history to throw overtime interceptions in two playoff games. In his last nine playoff games, Favre threw 18 interceptions.

Brett Favre's career playoff record was 12-10. Fellow Packer star quarterback Bart Starr, above, was 9-1.
In the first 81 years of the Green Bay franchise, the most hallowed in all of pro football, the Packers were 13-0 at home in the postseason. But since 2002, the Packers have gone 2-3 in playoff games at Lambeau Field, with Favre losing to three not-quite Hall of Fame quarterbacks: Michael Vick, Daunte Culpepper and Manning.

If Manning had a decade like that, he'd be run out of New York. If Philip Rivers kept chucking ridiculous overtime interceptions in the postseason, he would be branded a first-round bust. If Drew Brees came up short in three out of five home playoff games, he'd be mocked.

But no matter how many dumb passes he threw and how many playoff games he lost, Favre remains immune to criticism.

Favre isn't even the greatest quarterback in the history of the Packers. It's not even close. Bart Starr won five NFL championships -- four more than Favre -- and retired as the NFL's most accurate passer.

Oh, you say Starr was surrounded by a Hall of Fame roster with a legendary coach. But Starr still is the NFL record holder with a 104.8 career playoff passer rating, nearly 20 points higher than Favre's. That wasn't Vince Lombardi or Ray Nitschke throwing those passes for Starr, whose career postseason passer rating, by the way, is 38 points higher than Johnny Unitas'.

Favre's career playoff record was 12-10. Starr's was 9-1 -- without the benefit of wild-card games. Favre threw 28 interceptions in 22 playoff games. Starr threw three in 10. Think about that -- just three picks in 213 postseason attempts.

But Bart Starr gets the Ringo Starr treatment -- underappreciated and overlooked. Favre gets put on a pedestal. Yes, he had a Pro Bowl season in 2007 with the youngest roster in the NFL. But his final moment on Lambeau Field was a wildly errant pass that turned into the NFC title for the Giants.

Indeed, a decade after his last moments of glory, the football hype machine continues to paint Favre as a hallowed icon of Americana, a symbol of all that is right with sports, a Wild West gun-slinging good ol' boy. There's Brett on the farm! There's Brett with his family! There's Brett on the cover of Sports Illustrated! There's Brett throwing another overtime interception!

Favre was among the best in the game, once upon a time. Those days are long gone. Only the idolatry remains.

This is adapted from the best-selling book "The Paolantonio Report: The Most Overrated and Underrated Players, Teams, Coaches and Moments in NFL History" by Sal Paolantonio with Reuben Frank, which is available in local bookstores and at Amazon.com.





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