Lidstrom

[Gnredwing 10]

I am always arguing with my friends as to who is the best player in the league. Most will say either Crosby or Ovechkin, although I think Zetterberg is better than Crosby. Anyway I am always the only one who thinks Lidstrom is the NHL's best player. I think just because Lidstrom is a defensemen people rule him out of being the best player in the league, since most people think about offense first. Does anyone agree with me that Lidstrom really is the best player in the league?

[Rice 42]

Does anyone agree with me that Lidstrom really is the best player in the league?

Yup.

[GMRwings1983 8,793]

Yes, and has been for at least the last 5 years.

[RedWingedKitten 9]

I agree with you man. But you have to understand the average hockey fan watching Lidstrom will have a lot more fun watching Ovechkin and Crosby. Lidstroms game is a lot more deep than theres, and a lot more impressive if you watch it for many years.

Edited September 4, 2008 by RedWingedKitten

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Is Lidstrom one of the best overall players in the league? Yes. But like similar debates or sports listings or whatever else, it is entirely subjective. Another guy can make a case that some player is the best reasons because of reasons A, B, and C. Another could say Lidstrom is the best because of three other reasons completely different than A/B/C. And other person could make the same claim in a legit fashion for another player with entirely different reasons as well. It just depends what subjective mode of thinking you want to believe more. But all of the opinions probably aren't significantly better or worse than another if somebody can make a legitmate claim for the player.

[rage 24]

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[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

I am always arguing with my friends as to who is the best player in the league. Most will say either Crosby or Ovechkin, although I think Zetterberg is better than Crosby. Anyway I am always the only one who thinks Lidstrom is the NHL's best player. I think just because Lidstrom is a defensemen people rule him out of being the best player in the league, since most people think about offense first. Does anyone agree with me that Lidstrom really is the best player in the league?

No

Ovechkin is the best player in the league.

[Duck Guy 86]

always has and always will depend who you ask... do i think Lids is the best player in the NHL? no. But I am sure that countless of people on and off these boards agree and disagree so that is just one of those mystery's of life...

[BeeRYCE 2]

Lidstrom is the most dominant at his position. Meaning it's unanimous that he's the best defenseman in the NHL, whereas goaltenders many would debate Luongo, Brodeur, Kipper, etc... For forwards many would debate Crosby or Ovechkin, where Lidstrom being the best defenseman is the easiest statement to make. It's tough to say he's the best, but it's debatable.

There really is no sport where there is a best anything. Football we have Brady, Tomlinson, Manning, and then a wide list of defensive standouts. In basketball we have Lebron James, Kevin Garnett, Kobe Bryant, etc. In baseball we could make arguments for sluggers, pitchers, defensive standouts once again. None of the 4 major sports are there any players in leagues of their own, all hold their own value in equal portions.

The only 3 guys in leagues of their own are Tiger Woods, Michael Phelps, and Usain Bolt.

[Idoit40fans 0]

He is easily the best defenceman, and definitely belongs in any conversation about best overall. I'd say he was best a few years ago, but Crosby and Ovechkin are definitely right there. Its completely pointless to compare goalies to skaters, so I wont.

[Reilly 24]

Most important, but not the best.

That titles goes to Datysuk.

[ZETTERBERGPWN 2]

hes the best defenseman in the league imo ..

but for me the best players are zata dats and ovy

[zata40 3]

To me their is no "best in the league". Their is the best defenseman, the best offensive player, and the best goalie.

Because of the different player positions, you cannot just pick one. I break it down into three

Defence: lidstrom

Offence: Ovy

Goalie: brodeur

[Guest mindfly]

To me their is no "best in the league". Their is the best defenseman, the best offensive player, and the best goalie.

Because of the different player positions, you cannot just pick one. I break it down into three

Defence: lidstrom

Offence: Ovy

Goalie: brodeur

Have to agree on those three

[Doggy 130]

Yes, and has been for at least the last 5 years.

Such a generic statement. Maximum 3 years if you actually think about what you're saying.

[IrishWing19 6]

I'd agree that he's the best player in the league simply because his play has been at such a high level for many, many years. His level of consistency sets him apart from pretty much everyone, I'm not doubting that Crosby and Ovechkin are fantastic players and I can easily see why people would pick them as the best but my opinion is that they haven't done it for long enough to be better than Lidstom.

Also, on a nightly basis Lidstrom makes the best players in the league look ordinary, but its a rare occassion when he has an off night and those same best players make him look like he should be on the 3rd defensive paring.

[drw16 0]

No

Ovechkin is the best player in the league.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

For those of you that claim AO is the best player in the game, give me reasoning *aside* from his 62 goals last season.

I am always arguing with my friends as to who is the best player in the league. Most will say either Crosby or Ovechkin, although I think Zetterberg is better than Crosby. Anyway I am always the only one who thinks Lidstrom is the NHL's best player. I think just because Lidstrom is a defensemen people rule him out of being the best player in the league, since most people think about offense first. Does anyone agree with me that Lidstrom really is the best player in the league?

I do.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

For those of you that claim AO is the best player in the game, give me reasoning *aside* from his 62 goals last season.

I do.

Nice way to gloss over that statistic Mac. 62 goals is freakish. That'd be like Nick bagging 100pts. It's a monster number. And that's all AO has done since coming into the league. He puts up monster numbers.

He's a near impossible offensive force. He has proven he can carry a team on his shoulders. A team not near as good as the Wings with not near as good a supporting cast.

It's easy to just tag Nick as the best defensive player in the league. Well, frankly AO is the best offensive player in the league. Which is more important?

In today's NHL can anybody say what wins you more games? Is it offense or defense?

Like I said in the other thread. Given the current nature of the game with increased offense, more restriction on goalies and defenseman I am going with the guy who provides more offense than any other player in the league. Is arguably one of the best 1 on 1 players in the league. Is clearly the league's best goal scorer.

If I start a team today and it isn't chock full of superstars and I only get 1 top 10 player. I take AO over Nick.

[egroen 384]

If I start a team today and it isn't chock full of superstars and I only get 1 top 10 player. I take AO over Nick.

I would love to see a coach's poll on who everyone would pick first. It would be interesting where the votes would go. I'm sure we would see Luongo, Brodeur, Lidstrom, Crosby, Ocechkin and maybe some Iginla, Thornton.

But I bet Lidstrom would be the only defender.

[Doc Holiday 0]

Nice way to gloss over that statistic Mac. 62 goals is freakish. That'd be like Nick bagging 100pts. It's a monster number. And that's all AO has done since coming into the league. He puts up monster numbers.

He's a near impossible offensive force. He has proven he can carry a team on his shoulders. A team not near as good as the Wings with not near as good a supporting cast.

It's easy to just tag Nick as the best defensive player in the league. Well, frankly AO is the best offensive player in the league. Which is more important?

In today's NHL can anybody say what wins you more games? Is it offense or defense?

Like I said in the other thread. Given the current nature of the game with increased offense, more restriction on goalies and defenseman I am going with the guy who provides more offense than any other player in the league. Is arguably one of the best 1 on 1 players in the league. Is clearly the league's best goal scorer.

If I start a team today and it isn't chock full of superstars and I only get 1 top 10 player. I take AO over Nick.

How many all star defensemen are in the league today? Now how many all star forwards are there? Lidstrom is a very very rare breed, and Ovenchkin is essentially a much better form of today's power forward. I'd take the rare breed. And considering in today's NHL an stacked Pittsburgh's offense was completely shut down by a stacked Detroit defense I really don't get what basis you have for that assertion.

Offense wins games, defense wins championships.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

I would love to see a coach's poll on who everyone would pick first. It would be interesting where the votes would go. I'm sure we would see Luongo, Brodeur, Lidstrom, Crosby, Ocechkin and maybe some Iginla, Thornton.

But I bet Lidstrom would be the only defender.

You'd be absolutely right about that. It's a funny thing to, you poll coaches and coaches always preach defense. That's what wins you championships. HA! The Devils, Baltimore Ravens, those teams are the exceptions to the rules. Offense wins you championships. Defense is how you keep players in a system, keep them in line, etc....

I'm a lifelong defenseman who couldn't score on an empty net breakaway for pete's sake. The one thing I have learned over 31 years of playing and watching is that while strong defensive play is a must. Championships are not won by teams constantly scoring 1 or 2 goals per game and holding the opponent to none or 1 goals per game. Offense brings home the bacon.

And this league, the way its moving is back to a more offensive league. Hence my pick. Frankly, picking defense as the most important thing has always baffled me. Coaches always do it so they must know something I don't.

Ever watch games from the 1980's thru early 90's. OFFENSE is what got it done. It sure as hell wasn't defense b/c there was no ******* defense. I wonder if Nick played in the 80's, would he be picked the most or would an offensive guy like Gretz?

[Doc Holiday 0]

You'd be absolutely right about that. It's a funny thing to, you poll coaches and coaches always preach defense. That's what wins you championships. HA! The Devils, Baltimore Ravens, those teams are the exceptions to the rules. Offense wins you championships. Defense is how you keep players in a system, keep them in line, etc....

I'm a lifelong defenseman who couldn't score on an empty net breakaway for pete's sake. The one thing I have learned over 31 years of playing and watching is that while strong defensive play is a must. Championships are not won by teams constantly scoring 1 or 2 goals per game and holding the opponent to none or 1 goals per game. Offense brings home the bacon.

And this league, the way its moving is back to a more offensive league. Hence my pick. Frankly, picking defense as the most important thing has always baffled me. Coaches always do it so they must know something I don't.

Ever watch games from the 1980's thru early 90's. OFFENSE is what got it done. It sure as hell wasn't defense b/c there was no ******* defense. I wonder if Nick played in the 80's, would he be picked the most or would an offensive guy like Gretz?

So wait, you say in the 80s and 90s the NHL was purely offense, but now the new NHL is becoming more offense? When was it defense, and why for the past two years have the offensively minded teams been defeated where it counted (Ottawa and Pittsburgh). And I also find it odd that the huge reason for Detroit's success was due to their forwards not only playing offense but defense, and that the MVP was not picked only for his offense, but largely for his defense (see 5 on 3 where AO's offense wouldn't help).

Yes, Ovenchkin has the ability to carry a team on his shoulders to the playoffs, but Lidstrom's defensive play has shut down the top players in the league on a consistent basis.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

So wait, you say in the 80s and 90s the NHL was purely offense, but now the new NHL is becoming more offense? When was it defense, and why for the past two years have the offensively minded teams been defeated where it counted (Ottawa and Pittsburgh). And I also find it odd that the huge reason for Detroit's success was due to their forwards not only playing offense but defense, and that the MVP was not picked only for his offense, but largely for his defense (see 5 on 3 where AO's offense wouldn't help).

Yes, Ovenchkin has the ability to carry a team on his shoulders to the playoffs, but Lidstrom's defensive play has shut down the top players in the league on a consistent basis.

Did you completely miss like a decade of hockey or something? When was the league defense? Have you missed all of the meetings the past years covering goalie movement, goalie pad restrictions, the removal of the two-line pass, more offense, less obstruction, etc..... Were you in hibernation or something?

The league was dead offensively for years. I'm sure you can google it and get up to speed.

You say offensively minded teams have been defeated. Well the flip side of that coin will show you that so have the defensively minded ones the past few years. You see New Jersey or Minnesota hoisting the Cup lately? I don't think so.

Detroit has 2 of the most offensively prolific guys on offense in Dats and Z. 2 of the most offensive D men in Nick and Rafs. Another in Kronner. Fantastic 2nd and 3rd line offensive support in Homer, Franzen, Clearly, Hudler, Flip, Samuellson. Yes, these players play into Babcock's system of strong individual and team defense. But stop kidding yourselves. These guys are offensive weapons. The Wings just happen to be good at both ends of the rink. But they are always one of the top offensive teams in the league.

How can anybody gloss over the fact that the wings usually finish 1st, 2nd or 3rd in offense every single year? All this weight is placed upon Nick's defense being the key and defense, defense, defense wins it for you.

That argument would be more suitable if Nick played for New Jersey. The Wings are an offensive juggernaut. Don't forget that. Without Dats, Z and Rafs. The Wings would be a 2nd tier team with the best Dman on the planet. They wouldn't win championships and Nick wouldn't have the numbers he does. Never forget how much OFFENSE plays a gigantic role in us winning.

[GMRwings1983 8,793]

Such a generic statement. Maximum 3 years if you actually think about what you're saying.

He became the best player in the league in my book around 2002 or so. His stats went down in 2003, but not his overall playing ability.

It wasn't really a generic statement, unless you're willing to concede that the whole topic is generic, which it probably is.