Franzen vs. Hossa

[LeftWinger 4,953]

Why should it even be a question of Franzen vs. Hossa? Why not Hossa vs. Another expendable player? Franzen was valuable to us when we needed him the most.

Samuelsson vs. Hossa?

McCarty vs. Hossa?

...now, we're talking! Why does it have to be "The Franz?"

...I'd galdly give up Sammy's, Hudler's and Lilja's salary in order to keep Hossa, then just let the kids play. Abs and Helm are more than ready to come up! Sammy and Lilja won't get you much, but Huds might garner a nice draft pick or two!

[BlakChamber 8]

And Hossa totally has. Even more so, his decision to come to the wings show how massively he only cares about money.

Um, didn't Pitt offer more money to Hossa and for more years? I don't remember exactly how much the Pens offered Hossa, but it was at least what the Wings are paying him and I'm pretty sure it was more. And it was a mutli-year deal. Turning down more guaranteed money doesn't sound like the mark of someone who's only in it for the money.

And I can't believe this is a serious debate. Hossa is one of the 15 best, probably 10 best players in the world. Franzen is not. Not even close. I agree with Eva's assessment of anyone who would take Franzen over Hossa.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Hudler if he has a great year is maybe 2 mil. That's almost double his contract. As I said before Franzen is 3 mill maybe 3.5. 3.5 + 2 = 5.3. Hossa is 7.5 minimum. So you are NOT talking about Franzen and Hudler versus Hossa. You are talking about Franzen + Hudler + Sammy versus Hossa.

After we get part way through the season, Kenny will have to decided if Hossa is so great that he is better than Franzen, Hudler and Sammy COMBINED. I wouldn't bet on it though.

You honestly think if Franzen has a comparable season to last year in any way shape or form that hes going to sign for 3M? Right. Thats just like the Free Press saying Stuart is going to have to sign for around 3M if he wants to stay with the Wings. Holland may be a great GM, but hes not that great. And Franzen is not going to take 3M when he could be making some 5M on the open market, especially with another productive playoffs. He was the talk of the league for a while, and with anything in the realm of 30 goals, 60 points, he'll be heralded as the newest Ryan Smyth and possibly paid like it from a desperate team under a ~60M cap.

As for Hudler, you're way off on the 2M mark as well, under your conditions. Hudler already had a good year. And it equated to 42 points with limited ice time and a great post-season performance. If he were to have a great season, he'd easily nab upwards of 50 points, at the age of 25. You think players like that are going to settle for 2M? Hudler will be off to the races at arbitration with at least 3M in his pocket, as hes arbitration eligible.

[Rice 42]

I'll take Hossa ten times out of ten. I love Franzen, but come on. There isn't much disparity between Hossa and Datsyuk or Zetterberg. Would you rather have Franzen or Datsyuk? Franzen or Zetterberg?

Hossa, Datsyuk, and Zetterberg are all world-class players. Franzen is great but he's not on the other guys' level.

[ozzie4life 0]

IF I have to choose between the two, I'd take Franzen. I think he has real talent and he won't demand as much money as Hossa will. But I would much rather keep them both and get rid of Samuelsson and/or Lilja.

[19Hockeytown5 0]

It's not Mule vs Hossa if you are realistic about it. It will be Mule+huds+Sammy vs Hossa. He is a better player than each of them individually, but I do not want to sacrifice depth for him.

Really, I'm just ready for the season. We have a great 1 year window for a repeat, due to Hossa's sacrafice. At the end of the day, if he helps us repeat and THEN we lock up everyone except Hossa, we STILL have the same team (which just won us a cup this season)to go for the threepeat (I STILL like our chances). Hossa is just an addition that worked for this year, I don't think it's worth losing a bunch of players for him after this next season.

I hope that makes sense

Edited September 14, 2008 by 19Hockeytown5

[Yzerfan1999 81]

If we can keep Hossa and only lose Franzen, the choice is Hossa. Hossa is better offensively, better defensively, and while he may not be a big bruising forward, he's pretty strong and able to use it.

If it ultimately comes down to 'Hossa or Franzen' as the choice...anyone who doesn't choose Hossa is an idiot, a homer, or both.

I love these kind of posts - 'If you don't agree with me you are automatically an idiot because I am the authority on everything hockey'.

In uncapped league, yes I would take Hossa, but the reality is that after this season keeping Franzen at 4 or 5 million and adding another depth player or saving the cash for someone else is probably going to be the Wings best option. If you think Hossa is going to resign for the same money, you're 'an idiot, homer, or both'. He is going to look for 8-9 million somewhere else after this year.

I'd love to keep them both, but Hossa will be going for the long-term big bucks after winning a cup this year .

[GoWings1905 2,694]

I am honestly stunned. If we are basing this decision solely on the player and not any salary cap implications, how could anyone seriously pick Franzen over Hossa? Hossa is one of the top forwards in the game. Franzen put up huge numbers from March into the playoffs, but he still only has 49 career goals. I hope Mule continues to be the post-March goal scorer, but that's far from a guarantee. Hossa is approaching 300 career goals, and could very easily put up 100 points this season.

Choosing Franzen over Hossa is straight-up insane.

[chrisdetroit 189]

I am honestly stunned. If we are basing this decision solely on the player and not any salary cap implications, how could anyone seriously pick Franzen over Hossa? Hossa is one of the top forwards in the game. Franzen put up huge numbers from March into the playoffs, but he still only has 49 career goals. I hope Mule continues to be the post-March goal scorer, but that's far from a guarantee. Hossa is approaching 300 career goals, and could very easily put up 100 points this season.

Choosing Franzen over Hossa is straight-up insane.

Agreed. Hossa vs Mule straight up with no salary cap, of course you pick Hossa but Hossa at 7 or 8 mil versus Mule at 3 or 4 mil and the obvious salary cap issues makes it a completely different decision.

I can't see Holland giving up Mule and Hudler and possibly a Sammy to keep Hossa when we already have 2 guys that play similar roles in Z and Pavs. Franzen is destined to fill Homer's role in a couple of years when he retires. I don't think that he is going anywhere.

Here's hoping for a monster salary cap increase.

[chrisdetroit 189]

It's not Mule vs Hossa if you are realistic about it. It will be Mule+huds+Sammy vs Hossa. He is a better player than each of them individually, but I do not want to sacrifice depth for him.

Really, I'm just ready for the season. We have a great 1 year window for a repeat, due to Hossa's sacrafice. At the end of the day, if he helps us repeat and THEN we lock up everyone except Hossa, we STILL have the same team (which just won us a cup this season)to go for the threepeat (I STILL like our chances). Hossa is just an addition that worked for this year, I don't think it's worth losing a bunch of players for him after this next season.

I hope that makes sense

perfect sense. I agree

[chrisdetroit 189]

You honestly think if Franzen has a comparable season to last year in any way shape or form that hes going to sign for 3M? Right. Thats just like the Free Press saying Stuart is going to have to sign for around 3M if he wants to stay with the Wings. Holland may be a great GM, but hes not that great. And Franzen is not going to take 3M when he could be making some 5M on the open market, especially with another productive playoffs. He was the talk of the league for a while, and with anything in the realm of 30 goals, 60 points, he'll be heralded as the newest Ryan Smyth and possibly paid like it from a desperate team under a ~60M cap.

As for Hudler, you're way off on the 2M mark as well, under your conditions. Hudler already had a good year. And it equated to 42 points with limited ice time and a great post-season performance. If he were to have a great season, he'd easily nab upwards of 50 points, at the age of 25. You think players like that are going to settle for 2M? Hudler will be off to the races at arbitration with at least 3M in his pocket, as hes arbitration eligible.

You are ignoring the fact that both Mule and Rex may be willing to take a discount to stay in Detroit. But as I said earlier, this all comes down to how they play this year - Rex, Mule, Sammy, and your boy Hossa.

To form an opinion now before we see how it plays out, you'd have to be an id.... well, you get the picture.

I'm taking a wait and see attitude

[Seraph 240]

No one is arguing with anyone about whether Hossa is a better player than Franzen. We're talking about what's the smartest thing to do as a GM.

[b.shanafan14 733]

Like I said before, Hossa is a greater talent than Franzen right now, but as others are saying Hossa and Franzen "bang-for-your-buck" in the salary cap world are different.

Hossa signed for what in the free market is considered a "discount", making him tied for the highest paid player on the Wings, and thats after doing mediocre in Atlanta before going to Pitt and getting back into the groove. The cap has gone up roughly $6 mil a season since the lockout. Assuming that doesn't slow, which it very well may, the means we will have roughly $21mil to sign Zetterberg, Hossa, Franzen, Hudler, Samuelsson, Kopecky, possibly Chelios, possibly another goaltender, possibly Leino. Minus the guaranteed raise of Zetterberg to around $7.45mil if we're lucky, and Hossa staying the same, again if we're lucky, than we have roughly $6mil to resign Franzen, Hudler, Samuelsson and more, all looking for a raise above their current $1.2 mil, and thats not counting the other question marks. We can't cut up our team for a single player who made our already championship calibur team better.

Whether that makes me an "idiot" or a "homer" is free for interpretation I guess...

Edited September 14, 2008 by b.shanafan14

[Copenhagen848 58]

That's a cop-out answer.

Ok

Yeah, lets compare Hossa and Franzen and who we'd rather keep before the season even starts.....

Sorry for the "cop-out".

[jawbreaker 0]

If Flip got 3M, then Hudler will demand at least the same amount. If Franzen scores about 60 points, then he will demand even more. Franzen's price will be about 5M. I would rather keep Hossa for 7M, than Mule for 5M,

[Yzerfan1999 81]

I am honestly stunned. If we are basing this decision solely on the player and not any salary cap implications, how could anyone seriously pick Franzen over Hossa? Hossa is one of the top forwards in the game. Franzen put up huge numbers from March into the playoffs, but he still only has 49 career goals. I hope Mule continues to be the post-March goal scorer, but that's far from a guarantee. Hossa is approaching 300 career goals, and could very easily put up 100 points this season.

Choosing Franzen over Hossa is straight-up insane.

I don't think thats the case. I was under the impression this is a realistic question. No one in the world would say Franzen is a better hockey player then Hossa, but based on the salary cap and the superstars this team already has, its quite reasonable for people think that Franzen should stay long term at 4-5 million over Hossa at 8 or 9.

[dallas27 7]

Ok

Yeah, lets compare Hossa and Franzen and who we'd rather keep before the season even starts.....

Sorry for the "cop-out".

If Mule has more points than Hossa at the end of the season I will give you whatever is in my bank account. I'll give you 1000000000 to 1 odds as well.

*edit* And as I've said before, the only people in the world that take Mule over Hossa is letsgowings.com

Edited September 14, 2008 by dallas27

[chrisdetroit 189]

I love these kind of posts - 'If you don't agree with me you are automatically an idiot because I am the authority on everything hockey'.

In uncapped league, yes I would take Hossa, but the reality is that after this season keeping Franzen at 4 or 5 million and adding another depth player or saving the cash for someone else is probably going to be the Wings best option. If you think Hossa is going to resign for the same money, you're 'an idiot, homer, or both'. He is going to look for 8-9 million somewhere else after this year.

I'd love to keep them both, but Hossa will be going for the long-term big bucks after winning a cup this year .

Thank you. I hate it when people start hurling insults because somebody doesn't agree with them. I guess their moma didn't teach them any manners.

[Doc Holiday 0]

If Mule has more points than Hossa at the end of the season I will give you whatever is in my bank account. I'll give you 1000000000 to 1 odds as well.

*edit* And as I've said before, the only people in the world that take Mule over Hossa is letsgowings.com

I don't think points are the only thing in question. Did you forget SALARY and the CAP? Those are variables which can affect what can work for Detroit. Either way I doubt getting Hossa back for another season with the players we already have is incredibly plausible.

[Dabura 12,207]

The choice all depends on how the 2 players play this year. Hossa has had several poor playoff performers and has been a mercinary the last 3 or 4 years.

Like I said in our other Hossa discussion, stop pulling s*** out of your ass.

Hossa's postseason track record is right on par with Datsyuk's, in terms of point production. Moreover, he's been traded. A "mercenary" in a hockey context is a free agent who, more often than not, chases money above all else. That's not Hossa.

Hossa's infinitely more valuable and proven than Franzen. Mule plays a good game in front of the net. Hossa is a better goal-scorer, has a better two-way game, is just as fast, is only one inch shorter, etc.

[Nero 20]

By the way, we won the cup with Franzen. We'll see how it plays out this season.

[dallas27 7]

I don't think points are the only thing in question. Did you forget SALARY and the CAP? Those are variables which can affect what can work for Detroit. Either way I doubt getting Hossa back for another season with the players we already have is incredibly plausible.

The question at hand is who would you rather have. The answer is easy and should be unanimous; Hossa. For reasons that have been discussed to as why Hossa is such a damn good hockey player for months and months.

If you don't have to worry about giving Mule a raise and you cut some SALARY fitting Hossa on the team probably wouldn't be that difficult for Mr. Holland, and that isn't counting a CAP raise either.

[dallas27 7]

By the way, we won the cup with Franzen. We'll see how it plays out this season.

We won the cup with Osgood playing lights out. Is he going to repeat and have a career year again?

That point is moot.

(Hossa was TIED with Hank for the most points in the playoffs btw)

[Dabura 12,207]

By the way, we won the cup with Franzen. We'll see how it plays out this season.

Don't forget Dom!!

[b.shanafan14 733]

We won the cup with Osgood playing lights out. Is he going to repeat and have a career year again?

That point is moot.

(Hossa was TIED with Hank for the most points in the playoffs btw)

Actually, if you want to split hairs, Hossa had 26 points, Zetterberg had 27 I believe