When considering the final forward spots....

[hckypete96 3]

I have just been thinkin about those final roster spots and I'm trying to decide who's job is safe. Will Holland and Babcock stick with loyalty or will they choose the best players to make the squad?

Maltby- Has really lost a step in the past few years, PK skills have decreased and there isn't as much of a need for him anymore. We could really drop him and replace him with a much cheaper and younger player. However, he does have vetran leadership and he has won 4 cups with this team, but is that enough to keep him around?

Kopecky- The guy is extremely injury prone and from what I've seen i haven't been that impressed. He shows signs of offensive brilliance, but not very often. I like his size, but that's about it.

McCarty-Hometown favorite, but IMO there's no way he makes this squad. Took too many dumb penalties because he's too slow, and is no longer an elite fighter. His comeback story was great, but our deep is too deep and talented to keep him around. Will his history with the organization get him a roster spot?

Sammy-Shoots way too much and often at the goalies boobies. However, he is cheap but still it's a roster spot. He makes boneheads plays defensively as well. Does he have a guranteed roster spot?

Leino- I must say he is the player I am most intrigued about. Aside from seeing blurry YouTube videos, I've never seen him play, and I can't see the Red Wings going out and signing him if they didn't want him on the team. IMO by the time the halfway point for the season rolls around, Leino will be on second line. Thats just a prediction, but from what I have read, he seems greaet.

Helm-Showed a lot of promise in the playoffs, and has some wheels. But would he be better off playing another year in GR? I don't think so, but what do Babs and Holland think?

Downey- Great team player, great enforcer, terrible skater, below average hockey player. Does he make this squad based on his fighting skilsl alone?

My prediction

4th line.

Leino Draper Helm

Maltby

[Shutemdown 23]

I've been following up on Ville Leino ever since Fabian Brunstrom went to Dallas. I was psyched about that guy until he signed with Dallas, so I began researching other prospects, and Leino has been on my watch list ever since. He seems to be a great player and a great fit for the team. However, he faces ALOT of competition if he's going to make the team. Either way, he's already stated that he REALLY wants to play for Detroit and is willing to do what it takes to make the squad, knowing full-well it might not be this season. He's also been quoted saying that even if he DOES go back overseas, he will still tryout for a spot on the Wings. He'll be around... I just wish he could play this year. He's probably my most anticipated player at this point. Whenever he gets his chance, we'll see what he's got.

Helm was my favorite and most-surprising player last season. He came into the club without very many expectations and blew people away. He gave %110 every time he touched the ice. He played hard, skated hard, drew penalties, and even put in a BEAUTIFUL goal. IMO he should already be in the line-up, no questions asked. In my eyes, his training camp was last post-season and he definately made the grade.

I'm crossing my fingers to see both of these guys on the roster this year...

[HockeytownRules19 902]

My prediction

4th line.

Leino Draper Helm

Maltby

I disagree with 2 of the 3, i think Maltby deserves to start and be a part of the 4th line, and I think Kopecky should be on the line too, his potential is through the roof.

Plus i think Sammy is for sure going to be on the 3rd line with Cleary and Flip.

Edited September 22, 2008 by HockeytownRules19

[Wings_Fan_In_Exile 3]

Some very good points. Especially since the championship winning team is nearly identical. (replaced the 'win it for Drake' with 'win it for Hossa'. Does the "don't fix if it isn't broken" come into play? Or do you need to be dynamic and change with the times. Or does the leaderhsip/chemistry in the locker room count for more than youth, speed and energy?

Yeah, I have NO answers. haha.

[hckypete96 3]

how is kopeckys potential through the roof? he's been on the team for 3 years now and hasn't done anything. he's extremely injury prone and he's 26.... he should be entering his prime.. not rotting on 4th line.

[HockeytownRules19 902]

how is kopeckys potential through the roof? he's been on the team for 3 years now and hasn't done anything. he's extremely injury prone and he's 26.... he should be entering his prime.. not rotting on 4th line.

Maybe I'm just an idiot, but I saw him improve greatly from 2 years ago to last year before he got hurt. Do I think he can be a 30 goal scorer... heck no, but do I think he can be a solid 3rd or 4th forward who plays with skill and intensity, plus he is very physical which is always a plus.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Sammy-Shoots way too much and often at the goalies boobies. However, he is cheap but still it's a roster spot. He makes boneheads plays defensively as well. Does he have a guranteed roster spot?

Sammy does shoot too much at the goalies chest, but please tell me about these bonehead plays defensively that he supposedly makes. Sammy is a phenomenal defensive player that makes less mistakes defensively than all but a couple forwards on the roster. He plays the point on the second PP unit for a reason. On top of that, he makes practically nothing and is good for chipping in roughly 40 points a season.

Where's the problem?

[jerm8352 3]

Ville Leino was good at moving the puck yesterday at training camp. However, the problem is that losing Drake is losing a lot of physicality in the forward positions. Hossa basically replaces him in the lineup. Now, while Hossa is definitely an upgrade for the team offensively, we now have a physical deficiency. That's why hopefully someone who hits gets the roster spot. Leino is just more of the same in terms of players that we already have.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

I disagree with 2 of the 3, i think Maltby deserves to start and be a part of the 4th line, and I think Kopecky should be on the line too, his potential is through the roof.

Plus i think Sammy is for sure going to be on the 3rd line with Cleary and Flip.

Sammy does shoot too much at the goalies chest, but please tell me about these bonehead plays defensively that he supposedly makes. Sammy is a phenomenal defensive player that makes less mistakes defensively than all but a couple forwards on the roster. He plays the point on the second PP unit for a reason. On top of that, he makes practically nothing and is good for chipping in roughly 40 points a season.

Where's the problem?

Wow, guys, this must be a popular day for ridiculous overstatements.

[HockeytownRules19 902]

Wow, guys, this must be a popular day for ridiculous overstatements.

Sorry I got a little too excited lol... hockey season is here!

[hckypete96 3]

Sammy does shoot too much at the goalies chest, but please tell me about these bonehead plays defensively that he supposedly makes. Sammy is a phenomenal defensive player that makes less mistakes defensively than all but a couple forwards on the roster. He plays the point on the second PP unit for a reason. On top of that, he makes practically nothing and is good for chipping in roughly 40 points a season.

Are you out of your mind? He plays point on 2nd PP on the power play because he has a heavy shot... thats it. He's awful on the point IMO and is a liability for the otehr team to score shorthanded goals. I woudl MUCH rather have Stewie back there because he too has a heavy shot.

Sammy does not make much money, but he makes enough to keep us over the cap. He is also taking up a roster space. I really don't have that big of a problem with the guy, just feel that there are cheaper replacements.

edit: forgot to use quotes whoops.

Edited September 22, 2008 by hckypete96

[Dabura 12,207]

he makes enough to keep us over the cap.

That Sammy! Some nerve!

He is also taking up a roster space.

"Osammy Bin Laden"!

there are cheaper replacements.

There aren't. The guy makes peanuts relative to the kind of play and production Babs has squeezed out of him. He's a third-line checker who's been called upon to serve as a top-6 scorer, and he's risen to the occasion. The stats are there. Now he's being asked to play a role he's much more comfortable with, as he showed this past postseason when he played the best hockey of his Wings career on a line with Drake and Draper.

It's amazing how much pure B.S. people can pull out of their asses when talking about this guy. It boggles the mind.

[Opie 308]

Are you out of your mind? He plays point on 2nd PP on the power play because he has a heavy shot... thats it.

He's awful on the point IMO and is a liability for the otehr team to score shorthanded goals.

I woudl MUCH rather have Stewie back there because he too has a heavy shot.

Sammy does not make much money, but he makes enough to keep us over the cap.

He is also taking up a roster space. I really don't have that big of a problem with the guy, just feel that there are cheaper replacements.

edit: forgot to use quotes whoops.

Seeing as he is so awful and is such a liability back there you must be able to point to one maybe two times he let up a shorty in the years he has been on the pp2 point?

Right I mean if his mistakes are that bad you must have a s***load of proof, otherwise you just pulled that statement out of your ass, which one?

HE makes enough to keep "US" over cap, I am sorry that is it, everyone on the team making more than $1.2 mil needs to be off of the team to make salary room!

EDIT: We have been over this 8,000 times on this board, Babs likes the lefty righty combo on his PP points, he also likes the way Sammy plays back there, thus Sammy is at the point.

When you want to start critiquing that decision show me your coaching resume and when it is close to Babs I will take your opinion over his.

Edited September 22, 2008 by Opie

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Wow, guys, this must be a popular day for ridiculous overstatements.

BS. Explain how he isn't a phenomenal defensive forward. Offensive forward is a whole other story, but it really isn't for his price tag.

[jawbreaker 0]

Sammy is a lock on the 3rd line. Guy wins for us Game 1, and he is useless? Sammy is a very good player, unless you put him on the 2nd line.

[toby91_ca 620]

Sammy does not make much money, but he makes enough to keep us over the cap. He is also taking up a roster space. I really don't have that big of a problem with the guy, just feel that there are cheaper replacements.

How many guys do you think are out there that make less than $1.2 million and put up 40-50pts a year?

[hckypete96 3]

I didn't mean to turn this into a Sammy debate. I'm not sayin the guy is worthless. All I'm sayin is that there are cheaper replacements and we are currently over the cap. Leino and Helm could do what sammy can do and thats 2 players for the price of one. Anyhow this isn't about sammy only so quit turning this into a Sammy bashing and or praising thread it was not the purpose of the thread.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

I didn't mean to turn this into a Sammy debate. I'm not sayin the guy is worthless. All I'm sayin is that there are cheaper replacements and we are currently over the cap. Leino and Helm could do what sammy can do and thats 2 players for the price of one. Anyhow this isn't about sammy only so quit turning this into a Sammy bashing and or praising thread it was not the purpose of the thread.

No, there aren't cheaper replacements for Sammy. Name one.

Leino and Helm *currently* couldn't do/bring what Sammy does. If you truly believe that I question how closely you've watched Samuelsson play (or Leino and Helm for that matter).

I didn't mean to turn this into a Sammy debate. I'm not sayin the guy is worthless. All I'm sayin is that there are cheaper replacements and we are currently over the cap. Leino and Helm could do what sammy can do and thats 2 players for the price of one. Anyhow this isn't about sammy only so quit turning this into a Sammy bashing and or praising thread it was not the purpose of the thread.

I thought this thread was about the final forward spots. You're the one who put Sammy in that category so gofigure that people would respond to your comment.

[Konnan511 1,736]

How many guys do you think are out there that make less than $1.2 million and put up 40-50pts a year?

First round draft choices on entry level contracts.

[Superman54 91]

Sometimes i think people just insult Sammy to "fit" in. The guy is hardly as bad as people make him out to be, and is great for a third line player. For the fourth line I have been optomistic whether to keep Maltby in the lineup if other players are above value then his playing. As much as I love Helm I dont mind seeing him succeed another year in GR. It comes down if Babs wants a offensively skilled 4th line or a in your face kind of one.

[norrisnick 1]

First round draft choices on entry level contracts.

Nope. They almost always get bonuses which count against the cap this season. Stamkos' cap hit, for one, is nearly $4M.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

BS. Explain how he isn't a phenomenal defensive forward. Offensive forward is a whole other story, but it really isn't for his price tag.

There's a difference between decent and phenomenal. Phenomenal would be someone like Jere Lehtinen or Guy Carbonneau.

Since you used that word, maybe you should explain how he's "phenomenal" as opposed to just average or even good defensively.

[Booster313 138]

Ville Leino was good at moving the puck yesterday at training camp. However, the problem is that losing Drake is losing a lot of physicality in the forward positions. Hossa basically replaces him in the lineup. Now, while Hossa is definitely an upgrade for the team offensively, we now have a physical deficiency. That's why hopefully someone who hits gets the roster spot. Leino is just more of the same in terms of players that we already have.

Hossa isn't as hard of a hitter but he plays a strong game and has great size.

[Dominator2005 558]

Don't know why - but I have a feeling that we are going to see Leino on the 2nd unit this season (instead of Hudler)... There is no way to keep him on the 4th line. We need energy line like Maltby-Draper-McCart/Downey. I would keep Helm in GR - let him play big minutes there. Sammy on the 3rd line - I have no problem with it.

[norrisnick 1]

Don't know why - but I have a feeling that we are going to see Leino on the 2nd unit this season (instead of Hudler)... There is no way to keep him on the 4th line. We need energy line like Maltby-Draper-McCart/Downey. I would keep Helm in GR - let him play big minutes there. Sammy on the 3rd line - I have no problem with it.

I would say the chances of Leino kicking Hudler off his perch are somewhere between none and zero. The only somewhat remote possibility is Sammy becoming the cap casualty and Ville joins Fil and Cleary on the 3rd line. And the only way Sammy becomes a cap casualty is if Lilly and Ericsson are the clear cut winners of the defenseman battle. Moving Lebda, Meech, or Quincey don't clear enough cap space for a 3rd pairing that adds up to $2.15M/yr.