Hossa gives his opinion...

[FunkedUp 29]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puck_dadd...?urn=nhl,110751

http://www.canada.com/windsorstar/news/sto...14-cd32cfc16f11

In the past six months, the speedy winger has had the opportunity to play with arguably the two most creative centres in hockey in Pittsburgh's Sidney Crosby and his new pivot man in Detroit Pavel Datsyuk "They're different players," Hossa said in comparing the two. "Sidney is more a skater and Pavel is more a playmaker."

Hossa has also found Datsyuk the more unpredictable of the two. The 29-year-old Slovak star admits he's quickly learned not to try and anticipate, just be ready to react when riding shotgun with Datsyuk.

"He's a great passer," Hossa said. "He always gets the puck to you. You just have to make sure you get open. ... You don't even have to say anything, he sees you even when you're behind him. "Basically, you just get ready for the shot."

I think this could bring up some good discussion, anyone care to post this on the Pens board?

[rage 24]

Probably a little early for real comparisons.

Let's play so regular season games first then ask him.

[19Hockeytown5 0]

That Penguins fan, "Richard Gnida, is taking some completely unacceptable and outrageous shots at Konstantinov. What an absolute ass.

[DatsyukownzU13 1]

Crosby, offensively, is in a different league than Datsyuk. Datsyuk is more fun to watch but statistically they don't compare. That kid is still only 21 years old, he's still a couple years out of his prime. 21 years old and already 2 seasons with 100 points (and would have had 3 for 3 if not for his injury). Pretty insane.

[MacK_Attack 108]

Crosby, offensively, is in a different league than Datsyuk. Datsyuk is more fun to watch but statistically they don't compare. That kid is still only 21 years old, he's still a couple years out of his prime. 21 years old and already 2 seasons with 100 points (and would have had 3 for 3 if not for his injury). Pretty insane.

Exactly. People treat Crosby like he's already in his prime, but he's still getting better.

[dereklai 0]

 .

Edited August 22, 2017 by dereklai

[MacK_Attack 108]

i'm sure pav could put up even better numbers, but the fact is, we play a team game.

And Pittsburgh doesn't? I wasn't aware that Crosby plays 60 minutes a game.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

i'm sure pav could put up even better numbers, but the fact is, we play a team game.

Dats probably could put up better numbers if he was on a less defensively-minded team, but I don't think he could put up Crosby numbers. Crosby is the more natural scorer, but *right now* Dats is the more complete player. Take that as you will.

[MississippiWing 14]

Dats probably could put up better numbers if he was on a less defensively-minded team, but I don't think he could put up Crosby numbers. Crosby is the more natural scorer, but *right now* Dats is the more complete player. Take that as you will.

+1. I think the Yahoo thing about being a better leader is bulls***. It's hard to measure Dats leadership with Lidstrom leading the team. I do understand that Crosby is still young, but as an overall better player I'll take Dats. Now if my team is s***e defensively like the Pens are I would take Crosby in a heartbeat with the hope of outscoring the team.

[toby91_ca 620]

I think Hossa's comments are a bit of a cop out, but completely expected from most hockey players. He obviously respects both players, so he isn't going to clearly say who he thinks is better. "They are different players" is a cut and paste comment you'll hear all the time. Crosby is a better skater, so stating that really doesn't mean much. Interesting the way he put it though, Crosby is a skater and Datsyuk is a playmaker. He probably means that Crosby creates the plays he does with his superior skating ability, while Datsyuk uses creativity. Not sure I'd totally agree with that as I have seen some pretty incredible plays from Crosby that have nothing to do with skating.

I guess the other thing is that it's tough to compare a 30 year old to a 21 year old. I think Crosby makes some plays at the wrong time (behind the back, etc.) rather than making the simple play, but I think he'll actually get more effective as he matures into the league.

Datsyuk is an amazing player, but I do think Crosby is on a different level, even at such a young age.

[toby91_ca 620]

Agreed.

Will be interesting to see if Crosby is capable of hitting 150 pts.

In reading a lot of preview magazines out now, Crosby is pegged to be the scoring leader in pretty much all of them (Ovechkin is normally #2) with his point total ranging anywhere from 112 or so, to 127 or so. The 112, which I read earlier today, assumed he only plays 75 games. Another one I read the other day suggested he had a top end potential for "this year" of 145.

He was on pace for close to 150 at times during the 2006-07 year.

Edited September 26, 2008 by toby91_ca

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Crosby, offensively, is in a different league than Datsyuk. Datsyuk is more fun to watch but statistically they don't compare. That kid is still only 21 years old, he's still a couple years out of his prime. 21 years old and already 2 seasons with 100 points (and would have had 3 for 3 if not for his injury). Pretty insane.

Agreed.

I can see comparing players as they are right now, but I think it is important to keep in mind that Crosby is 9 years younger than Datsyuk and this will only be his 4th year in the NHL. When Datsyuk was 21 he wasn't even in the NHL.

[GoalieManPat 1,007]

Agreed.

Will be interesting to see if Crosby is capable of hitting 150 pts.

Unless the game is changed I cant see anyone hitting that number.

[Dabura 12,207]

I think Hossa's comments are a bit of a cop out

Uh, he was asked to compare playing with the two of them and he pointed to Datsyuk's playmaking abilities (which are second-to-none) as the key difference he's picked up on so far. I'd say that's fair.

Also, why is everyone suddenly talking about the forward position as if it's only about putting the puck in the net?

Edited September 26, 2008 by Dabura

[ben_usmc 253]

Not that I'm Crosby isn't amazing nor will become amazing, but it's not like it's a for sure thing he'll get better then what he is now.

[MacK_Attack 108]

Not that I'm Crosby isn't amazing nor will become amazing, but it's not like it's a for sure thing he'll get better then what he is now.

He's 21....his physical prime is still about 5 years away. Nothing is guaranteed, but he should continue to improve for the next several years.

[Shutemdown 23]

Uh, he was asked to compare playing with the two of them and he pointed to Datsyuk's playmaking abilities (which are second-to-none) as the key difference he's picked up on so far. I'd say that's fair.

Also, why is everyone suddenly talking about the forward position as if it's only about putting the puck in the net?

Exactly. In terms of scoring and point-production, Crosby would, in most cases, get the nod.

However, it's hard to overlook Datsyuk's assists every year and also, his take-away ability.

His ability to strip the puck is second-to-none... no one even comes close to comparing.

Crosby is offensively a powerhouse, but Datsyuk is the better of the two when it comes to being defensively-minded.

[kegacide 0]

i dont think you can compare the two... they are completely different style players... Datsyuk will create for others more so than Crosby... while Crosby will create for his own shot...

a better comparison would be Zetterberg and Crosby... but even still Crosby is still growing, and hes probably already a better offensive player than both of them...

[norrisnick 1]

Agreed.

I can see comparing players as they are right now, but I think it is important to keep in mind that Crosby is 9 years younger than Datsyuk and this will only be his 4th year in the NHL. When Datsyuk was 21 he wasn't even in the NHL.

Players don't progress at the same pace. What set Sid apart from his peers is that he's matured as a player far earlier than most. But that doesn't mean there will be a relative progression from where Sid is at 21 and where he is in his late 20s. He simply doesn't have much room for improvement left. There's no way in hell his development takes the exponential leaps that Pavel's has taken from age 21 to where is now. He'd have to score well beyond 200 pts and that simply isn't going to happen.

Take Wayne for example. For all intents and purposes he peaked at 21 when he put up 212 points. His career high was a couple seasons later at 215 but he never hit another plateau. If people would have wanted to apply say... Esposito's development curve on Wayne he'd have put up 500+ points in his late 20s.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Players don't progress at the same pace. What set Sid apart from his peers is that he's matured as a player far earlier than most. But that doesn't mean there will be a relative progression from where Sid is at 21 and where he is in his late 20s. He simply doesn't have much room for improvement left. There's no way in hell his development takes the exponential leaps that Pavel's has taken from age 21 to where is now. He'd have to score well beyond 200 pts and that simply isn't going to happen.

Take Wayne for example. For all intents and purposes he peaked at 21 when he put up 212 points. His career high was a couple seasons later at 215 but he never hit another plateau. If people would have wanted to apply say... Esposito's development curve on Wayne he'd have put up 500+ points in his late 20s.

You don't think Crosby can do that...or Pavel for that matter?

[dereklai 0]

NeverForgetMac25 said:

 

Edited August 22, 2017 by dereklai

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

*ahem* i didn't mean he could put up crosby numbers, but ones better than he has the past few seasons.

I wasn't stating that you were. Just piggy-backing your thoughts with how they relate to mine.

[EuroTwin 240]

Ugh, that Yahoo article left a foul taste of condescension in my mouth.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Players don't progress at the same pace. What set Sid apart from his peers is that he's matured as a player far earlier than most. But that doesn't mean there will be a relative progression from where Sid is at 21 and where he is in his late 20s. He simply doesn't have much room for improvement left. There's no way in hell his development takes the exponential leaps that Pavel's has taken from age 21 to where is now. He'd have to score well beyond 200 pts and that simply isn't going to happen.

Take Wayne for example. For all intents and purposes he peaked at 21 when he put up 212 points. His career high was a couple seasons later at 215 but he never hit another plateau. If people would have wanted to apply say... Esposito's development curve on Wayne he'd have put up 500+ points in his late 20s.

I swear NNick, I think sometimes you analyze my posts just to find something to debate with me about.

Where exactly was I applying Datsyuk's development curve to Crosby? Where did I say his development would take the exponential leaps that Datsyuk's had? People were commenting on how right now Dats is the more complete player of the two, which he is. I was calling attention to the age difference and difference in NHL experience to highlight that Crosby still has plenty of time to become more complete. That's not the same as saying, "Datsyuk was at point x when he was 21 and look at where he is at 30, so we'll take Crosby's performance as a 21 yr old, multiply it by the Datyuk-performance-factor, and by age 30 he will be...."

Remove Datsyuk from the equation. Crosby is 21 years old and going into his 4th NHL season. So for starters he's barely matured physically. And with only three NHL seasons under his belt, there's still plenty left for Sid to figure out in the NHL.

Even offensively, more experience at this elite level is only going to make Crosby better as he becomes more savvy about the game. Right now he's relying mostly on his speed and his raw talent. As he gets older he'll be able to pick his spots more and make the players around him even better.

His defensive game is probably the best example where he can improve. We saw very clearly in this playoffs what a detriment it is to his team that he's not on the PK. And what an asset it is to have Z and Dats out there on ours. Right now taking a penalty is double punishment for the Pens. They're shorthanded and it keeps their best player off the ice too. He has plenty of room to improve in his two-way play. Sure his point totals might suffer a bit, but it'll make him even harder to play against and ultimately help the team.

He can improve on his faceoffs. He was 49% in the postseason, and barely above 50% in the regular season. The ideal is for him to become a key faceoff guy so they don't have to throw someone on the ice other than him to take key draws and screw up line combos.

He has room to improve on the intangibles. Team leadership, dealing with officials, dealing with the extra abuse he takes on the ice as a star player.

Crosby is already one of the elite players in the league, but I disagree that he doesn't have much room for improvement left.

[Dabura 12,207]

He has plenty of room to improve in his two-way play. Sure his point totals might suffer a bit, but it'll make him even harder to play against and ultimately help the team.

Not to talk for NN, but...

I don't think the argument is that Sidney has no room for improvement and won't improve, but rather, that people seem to be assuming that Sid will grow in the ways they're projecting. He will improve, there's no question about that. But how much, how fast -- those answers aren't set in stone, aren't a sure thing.