• Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

Sign in to follow this  
tino59

So who's it gonna be?

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

Lieno

If Holland and Babcock are true to their word and the best players are kept, the ones who performed the best all through training camp, than I don't see how you leave this guy off the roster. In today's game, I'm more concerned with having "skilled" players who can knock people around with their bodies and not take a penalty. Even though Ville won't add much, if anything, to the grit aspect of our team, he appears to battle pretty well along the boards and the last time I checked, we do pretty well in the hits department considering our team's propensity toward puck handlers and play-makers. That said, I wouldn't be disappointed at all if Helm was kept up on the big club instead.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think Downey blew any chance to make the team last night. I don't know if he was instructed not to fight under any circumstance or what, but Peters made Downey look like a scared little b*tch. The think I don't understand is why Downey would turn Peters down like that, because I really don't see him being scared of Peters as he has fought far better enforcers than Peters.I guess I would even be suprised to see Downey up in Detroit again at any point this season. It looks like Detroit will not ice an enforcer this season and will largley be finesse team.

Edited by Skiing - Puck

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kronwall plays finesse hockey?

Stuart plays finesse hockey?

Cleary Plays finesse hockey?

Care to explain this finesse hockey thing to me because apparently I don't get it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Kronwall plays finesse hockey?

Stuart plays finesse hockey?

Cleary Plays finesse hockey?

Care to explain this finesse hockey thing to me because apparently I don't get it?

No, I said that wrong. But, at the same time it is a rare occassion that you will ever see any of those guys stick up for his teammates in the same way that an enforcer would have. Cleary is more of a grinder and Kronwall and Stuart are physical defencive defencemen. I just find it frustrating that by in large this season we will not have anyone who will try to hold opposing player acountable for their actions.

I guess most people here are pleased with the balance of our team. I personally feel that it is important to have an enforcer, others will disagree with me and that is fine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I understand your frustration, but at this point in time Downey is still on the roster as is Lilja.

Also not to bust your balls (or *** to be PC) but this is the Wings we are talking about, does this surprise you at all?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
No, I said that wrong. But, at the same time it is a rare occassion that you will ever see any of those guys stick up for his teammates in the same way that an enforcer would have. Cleary is more of a grinder and Kronwall and Stuart are physical defencive defencemen. I just find it frustrating that by in large this season we will not have anyone who will try to hold opposing player acountable for their actions.

I guess most people here are pleased with the balance of our team. I personally feel that it is important to have an enforcer, others will disagree with me and that is fine.

I agree that the Wings could definitely use an enforcer, I would prefer to have one, but at the same time, are you going to sit someone who can kill penalties, skate well, or has great puck skills for a guy like Downey who will sit all but 5 minutes a night, be a liability when he is on the ice, and still may not even have to fight that night. On nights Downey is going to drop the gloves, he earns his spot, which is only about 25% of the time, MAYBE. Every other time, the Wings are basically only dressing 11 forwards.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I understand your frustration, but at this point in time Downey is still on the roster as is Lilja.

Also not to bust your balls (or *** to be PC) but this is the Wings we are talking about, does this surprise you at all?

I just don't see Downey making the team and all Lilja does when he tries to "fight" is pull his bear hug of doom schtick as the other player punches him in the head. While I agree enforcers are a dying breed, as long as there are those cheap shoting pests in the league they are needed.

Scince this is Detroit we are talking about I am not suprised whatsoever. But, it was nice last season to see someone (Drake, Downey, and Lilja) hold opposition acountable I just hoped that it would continue into this season.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I agree that the Wings could definitely use an enforcer, I would prefer to have one, but at the same time, are you going to sit someone who can kill penalties, skate well, or has great puck skills for a guy like Downey who will sit all but 5 minutes a night, be a liability when he is on the ice, and still may not even have to fight that night. On nights Downey is going to drop the gloves, he earns his spot, which is only about 25% of the time, MAYBE. Every other time, the Wings are basically only dressing 11 forwards.

I would love an enforcer that wasn't so one demensional, but Downey isn't that bad. It is hard to find an enforcer that is more skilled at other aspects of the game, especially one that will play at Downey's salary.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
First you guys act like you don't think we need fighters, and now you're getting on Downey for not fighting. It was a bad move by him but it's just a stupid preseason game.

We don't *need* fighters, but if you on the roster only because you *are* a fighter, you should do it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I just don't see Downey making the team and all Lilja does when he tries to "fight" is pull his bear hug of doom schtick as the other player punches him in the head. While I agree enforcers are a dying breed, as long as there are those cheap shoting pests in the league they are needed.

Scince this is Detroit we are talking about I am not suprised whatsoever. But, it was nice last season to see someone (Drake, Downey, and Lilja) hold opposition acountable I just hoped that it would continue into this season.

It interesting that you ripped Lilja in your first paragraph and then said it was nice to have him in the second. Lilja's still on the team and last I checked Downey can be called up at a moment's notice. This team isn't the toughest in the league but they're still tough and they have enforcers waiting when they're needed.

This isn't directed at you Skiing - Puck, but I'd love to post some of the enforcer lovers posts on this board on the Kings or the Islanders forums, then just sit back and watch them get ripped apart for how spoiled they are. It's not enough that the Wings have won the Cup 4 times in the past 11 years, its not enough that they are the overwhelming favorite going into the season and its not enough that they have enforcers signed to their team for nothing but incredible terms......no, some Wings fans still don't have it enough. Its rough being Bill Gates' kid.....know what I mean?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
No, I said that wrong. But, at the same time it is a rare occassion that you will ever see any of those guys stick up for his teammates in the same way that an enforcer would have. Cleary is more of a grinder and Kronwall and Stuart are physical defencive defencemen. I just find it frustrating that by in large this season we will not have anyone who will try to hold opposing player acountable for their actions.

I guess most people here are pleased with the balance of our team. I personally feel that it is important to have an enforcer, others will disagree with me and that is fine.

Kronwall is a defensive defenseman? Thats news to me..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would like to see them keep Leino up. This kid has impressed me throughout pre-season. I know there's talk about toughness, yada, yada - but if you look, Mac and Downey didn't play for much more than what, 5-8 minutes a game on average last year.

Plus, a lot of our forwards are pretty physical as well. Datsyuk led everyone in the playoffs last year in hits. I would like to see how Leino would do as a true "rookie" in the NHL. Going up against other rookies like Stamkos of TB, etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem with bringing up Leino, in my mind, is that he needs to ideally be in Samuelsson's spot, and it needs to be at the beginning of the season. Otherwise, hes best served in the AHL. My issue with Leino isn't whether or not he has enough talent - he definitely does - but he reminds me a lot of Hudler as a rookie. If he makes a defensive gaff, he doesn't have the skating to get back into position, and he doesn't have the initial defensive presence to prevent the defensive mistakes in the first place.

Because of that, he either needs to develop some defensive awareness in the AHL, or he should be stuck on a line with Filppula from the get-go where he can learn from Filppula every god damn day. I don't want to see Leino in the playoffs if hes only had 4th line duty with the Wings and minimal playing time throughout the season - likely itll be another Hudler scenario and hell either be benched or scratched.

So, if in a perfect world, the experience and defensive awareness of Sameulsson were cut out via trade for the chance to develop Leino into a more complete player, then Id be all for it. But the likelihood that Sammy is traded is slim to none.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Who needs Mac and Downey when we have Datsyuk...all he needs to do is unleash his inner dragon and have him train with Mac and Downey for a bit.

I wonder how many other teams have this problem with trying to figure out who should be sent down...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm going to bump my question really fast: does anyone know how many points Leino ended the season with, and/or where he stood compared to the rest of the team in various statistics?

Also, the only reason I would be concerned with Leino getting the last spot is the fact that he still hasn't played a single official game of nhl hockey. Yeah, he's been doing great in the preseason, so much, in fact that I'm struggling to find reasons why I would want someone else in the lineup besides him, but all the support that I have for him getting the last spot is based entirely on a handful of preseason games.

Granted, our team is stacked as hell and making a risk on who gets the 13th spot probably isn't going to affect the team's outcome, but I still can't decide between having an enforcer to keep our team safe (we're the target this year, after winning the cup), or having four legitimate scoring lines, which would surely make goalies s*** bricks.

Edited by Echolalia

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It interesting that you ripped Lilja in your first paragraph and then said it was nice to have him in the second. Lilja's still on the team and last I checked Downey can be called up at a moment's notice. This team isn't the toughest in the league but they're still tough and they have enforcers waiting when they're needed.

This isn't directed at you Skiing - Puck, but I'd love to post some of the enforcer lovers posts on this board on the Kings or the Islanders forums, then just sit back and watch them get ripped apart for how spoiled they are. It's not enough that the Wings have won the Cup 4 times in the past 11 years, its not enough that they are the overwhelming favorite going into the season and its not enough that they have enforcers signed to their team for nothing but incredible terms......no, some Wings fans still don't have it enough. Its rough being Bill Gates' kid.....know what I mean?

Yeah, I did kinda rip Lilja because it is clear he does't really know what he is doing when his gloves come off. But I do appreciate that he will at least stand up for his teammates on occasion.

I understand your point of veiw, I just feel that we were sucsesful last season and other years when we won the cup were due to balence, not Downey in particular, but having guys like him, Drake, McCarty, etc..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That's why he needs to be on this team. Who else is going to do it? Yeah he backed down tonight, but I doubt he'd act that way all season.

First you guys act like you don't think we need fighters, and now you're getting on Downey for not fighting. It was a bad move by him but it's just a stupid preseason game.

Agree. Downey's smart enough to know when fighting matters, in the regular season. Babs knows what he can do, he doesn't have to prove he can fight in a meaningless pre-season game. Again, much like not fighting when the team is up in points, Downey's just showing he's got a head on his shoulders. All of you doubting Downey's toughness or thinking he's scared of Peters check him out chopping down Parros last year (among others). Downey can and will fight heavies, he was just being smart against Buffalo.

Now that we're SC Champs, teams will be coming even harder this year. Keep Downey and send the rest down. They can come up later if we need them.

esteef

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yeah, I did kinda rip Lilja because it is clear he does't really know what he is doing when his gloves come off. But I do appreciate that he will at least stand up for his teammates on occasion.

I understand your point of veiw, I just feel that we were sucsesful last season and other years when we won the cup were due to balence, not Downey in particular, but having guys like him, Drake, McCarty, etc..

That's a good way of putting it and I would agree that balance helps a team win championships. Team toughness however can be substituted for straight up enforcers at the right time however (as demonstrated during the '08 postseason). I think the hope this year is that Kopecky will try his best to replace what Drake left and that guys like Downey and Mac are simply a phone call away when needed. Due to their contracts Babs has the luxury of bringing them up at his disposal and matching them up correctly against the right teams. Also, the Wings are most certainly not going to go through the regular season without injuries and a couple at a time isn't far-fetched. We're gonna see plenty of Downey and Mac this year regardless of what the opening night roster looks like.

This team is more balanced than people want to admit, its just that some nights the roster won't "resemble" it as much simply due to need.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some of you seem to be forgetting that this is a bottom-of-the-pecking-order fourth-line spot. As such, no one (Sammy) is going to be "replaced" by whoever gets this spot, and whoever gets this spot will likely share it with other contenders in some sort of rotation scheme.

That said, if someone's going to hold down that spot more than other guys, I think I'd like for it to be Leino. He really showed up; he's been very impressive. As NN said, of the guys in contention for this spot, he probably stands to gain the least from playing on the farm. Helm, on the other hand, could really benefit from an expanded role in GR.

McCarty plays before Downey, imo. McCarty's not a fighter at this stage in his career, but he can drop 'em if he feels it's necessary, and he actually has a game beyond scrapping. Downey had a s***ty training camp and preseason. Dress him for games against teams with a goon, but otherwise, give the nod to Leino or Helm. Or Mac.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Drake had an everyday impact yes. But was the 06-07 Red Wing team really that different from the 07-08.

It seems that people are stating that having Drake and Downey (D-mac in a limited role) made a drastic change to the Red Wings success.

Well lets look at the last three seasons with Babs in control

Year Wins Losses Points

07-08 54 21 115

06-07 50 19 113

05-06 58 16 124

The only difference as far as results go in this situation is that the Wings won the cup, all three years they won the division, all three years they were in the battle for the pres trophy until the end.

So the difference showed up in the postseason, when the fighting and cheap shots were no longer in play (for the most part).

So is it a fear the wings will lose or that people don't like the style?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would like it to be Leino, but my guess is that the spot will go to either Mac or Downey. Helm is clearly talented, but it serves him better purpose to play quality minutes in Grand Rapids than being the 13th forward in Detroit.

If it comes down to one of Downey or Mac, I would reluctantly choose Mac. I don't think either player deserves a roster spot TBH, but Downey has been downright awful in the pre-season.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think that IF the wings carry a 13th forward it is going to be McCarty. Helm and Leino need to play, not to be the 13th forward. I could see one of them making it and maltby and kopecky rotating with each other possibly, but not those guys to sit in the press box.

In terms of Downey or McCarty, I chalk it up to straight up my own preference. Downey dug his own grave for me last night when he ran away like a frightened puppy from Peters and got the only penalty. I understand that it was not the right time to fight since the wings had the momentum, but he got involved and backed out, he should have let the thing slide if he had no intention of a throw down, and not cross checked peters two times...

It was a bad play at the end of the last game of the pre-season, and I was not impressed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Downey sucks big time. He refused to fight with that Sabres guy. That is pretty much the only thing he could bring to the team. Leino is MUCH more useful player.

If Downey was refusing to fight, why did he cross check Peters, which is a way of saying "LETS GO"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think that IF the wings carry a 13th forward it is going to be McCarty. Helm and Leino need to play, not to be the 13th forward. I could see one of them making it and maltby and kopecky rotating with each other possibly, but not those guys to sit in the press box.

In terms of Downey or McCarty, I chalk it up to straight up my own preference. Downey dug his own grave for me last night when he ran away like a frightened puppy from Peters and got the only penalty. I understand that it was not the right time to fight since the wings had the momentum, but he got involved and backed out, he should have let the thing slide if he had no intention of a throw down, and not cross checked peters two times...

It was a bad play at the end of the last game of the pre-season, and I was not impressed.

Wow, the game I watched Mickey was making remarks about Peters asking to dance and when Downey responded, Peters wouldnt drop them..... Peters wanted to fight earlier in the game when the Wings didn't need a penalty.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this