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A case for #91 in the rafters?


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#1 egroen

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 12:21 PM

Few will argue Lindsay does not deserve to have his number retired by the Wings, but many will say Fedorov does not deserve the same honor because of the "way he left"...

Ironically, Fedorov was simply exercising his right to free agency that Ted Lindsay fought so hard to give the players (by creating a palyers' union). Ultimately, for challenging the powers that be in the NHL at the time, Lindsay was stripped of his captaincy and traded to the bottom-of-the-barrel Chicago Blackhawks. Lindsay was a leading player in the NHL and Jack Adams was so irate at him that he actually planted false rumours about Ted and false defamatory comments by Ted against his old team in the press, and showed a fake contract to the press, showing an inflated annual salary. It is hard to imagine a worse seperation than between Lindsay and the Red Wings.

Time and perspective obviously change things. Fedorov was upset at the time of contracts being offered and pulled with little notice and said some inflamatory comments about the Red Wings organization (comparing leaving the Red Wings to leaving communist Russia), but his tone has definitely changed over the years and you would be hard pressed to find nothing but positive comments from Fedorov about the Wings. He is still active in the Detroit community and involved in charities as well. Even Ted Lindsay and the Red Wings were able to bury the hatchet. Ted was able to come back and finish his career as a Wing (once Adams was out, and Abel was in), and even was the NHL Executive of the Year once as general manager for the Wings. His number is now retired and he is an "Honored Member" of the Detroit Red Wings Alumni Association.

Let's compare the numbers and awards (while both were Red Wings):

GP Gls Ass Pts Regular Season
862 335 393 728 Lindsay
908 398 543 941 Fedorov

GP Gls Ass Pts Playoffs
123 44 44.. 88 Lindsay
162 50 113 164 Fedorov

Awards:

Stanley Cups
4 Lindsay
3 Fedorov

Art Ross - Lindsay
1st Team All Star X 8 - Lindsay
2nd Team All Star - Lindsay
1st Team All Star - Fedorov
Pearson - Fedorov
Hart - Fedorov
Selke X 2 - Fedorov

Feodorv is fourth all-time in nearly every offensive category in Red Wings history behind Gordie Howe, Steve Yzerman, and Alex Delvecchio. Only Howe, Yzerman, Delvecchio, and Nicklas Lidström have played more games as a Red Wing.

My comparison to Lindsay is not to say Fedorov was "better" than Lindsay (he isn't), but only that here you have two great, integral players during thier tenure with the Wings, and both left on pretty bad terms.

So I do think Fedorov's number will be retired by the Red Wings and it will be deserved.... but not before #4, #5 and #6!!!

Edited by egroen, 15 October 2008 - 04:26 PM.

Red Kelly #4 and Larry Aurie #6 belong in the rafters!!!

"For my game, I don't need to score the goal," Konstantinov once explained. "I need someone to start thinking about me and forgetting about scoring goals."

#2 betterREDthandead

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 12:24 PM

As I always say when this stuff comes up....

If you have to "make a case" then the answer is NO!

And why #4? For the absolute best dogsledder in Wings history?
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#3 AtomicPunk

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 12:26 PM

#16 needs to go up next. Let's retire his number while the fans still remember how great he was, not 30 years later like some of the numbers of the past.
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#4 egroen

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 12:26 PM

QUOTE
As I always say when this stuff comes up....

If you have to "make a case" then the answer is NO!

And why #4? For the absolute best dogsledder in Wings history?

Ever heard of Red Kelly? He has more of a "case" than Delvecchio and Abel, but also left on bad terms with Jack Adams.

I am sure a "case" had to be made for every retired number outside of Howe and Yzerman. Do you think those should be the only two numbers in the rafters?

Edited by egroen, 15 October 2008 - 12:27 PM.

Red Kelly #4 and Larry Aurie #6 belong in the rafters!!!

"For my game, I don't need to score the goal," Konstantinov once explained. "I need someone to start thinking about me and forgetting about scoring goals."

#5 Crymson

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 12:33 PM

Fedorov neither played his whole career here nor carried this team on his back nor made it what it is today, and he was an enormous prima donna at times along the way. No reason to retire his jersey.

#6 egroen

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 12:37 PM

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Fedorov neither played his whole career here nor carried this team on his back nor made it what it is today, and he was an enormous prima donna at times along the way. No reason to retire his jersey.

Not even Howe played his entire career with the Wings.

Do you think #19 is the only one that deserves to be in the rafters?

Red Kelly #4 and Larry Aurie #6 belong in the rafters!!!

"For my game, I don't need to score the goal," Konstantinov once explained. "I need someone to start thinking about me and forgetting about scoring goals."

#7 mannysBETTER3434

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 12:40 PM

He was a really great player when he was here, but see no reason to retire #91. Kind of like #14

Great research though!!

Edited by mannysBETTER3434, 15 October 2008 - 12:41 PM.


#8 superstarsingh

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 12:43 PM

Fedorov does not deserve to be in such exclusive company.

#9 JayUp88

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 12:51 PM

This comes up all the time.

He was/is a great player but he moved on. We have to let him move on too. There are many players that deserve to have their numbers retired.
Vladdy
Ozzie
Feds
Kelly
Chelli

lets not forget that Chris has played more years here then in the hawks or canadians

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#10 Shaman

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 12:51 PM

Id say no if only because the Wings have had so many great players come through their system youd need to start giving out 1/2 and 2/5 for numbers soon, Lids in the next number to be raised and after that maybe dats or zetts.
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#11 Chunkylover

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 12:54 PM

Eventually 14, 91, and maybe even 16, 24, and 30 will end up in the rafters. Illitch won't be around forever and the Wings could hit a low point and need things like retirement ceremonies to get interest.

All these players will have had a positive impact on the team and while they aren't instant inductions like 5, 9, and 19 a solid argument can clearly be made for all of them.

Additionally all of them except Vladdy will be Hall of Famers.

#12 Duck Guy

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 12:55 PM

QUOTE (JayUp88 @ October 15, 2008 - 12:51PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This comes up all the time.

He was/is a great player but he moved on. We have to let him move on too. There are many players that deserve to have their numbers retired.
Vladdy
Ozzie
Feds
Kelly
Chelli

lets not forget that Chris has played more years here then in the hawks or canadians

i dont think Cheli will get his # retired in DET.. it will either be in Chicago or MTL that is just what i think

Edited by Duck Guy, 15 October 2008 - 12:56 PM.

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#13 donfishmaster

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 12:56 PM

QUOTE (JayUp88 @ October 15, 2008 - 01:51PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This comes up all the time.

He was/is a great player but he moved on. We have to let him move on too. There are many players that deserve to have their numbers retired.
Vladdy
Ozzie
Feds
Kelly
Chelli

lets not forget that Chris has played more years here then in the hawks or canadians


Number 5 should be retired next. No questions asked. Period. THE END.

#14 sagnam

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 12:59 PM

QUOTE (JayUp88 @ October 15, 2008 - 01:51PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
lets not forget that Chris has played more years here then in the hawks or canadians


Yes, but he didn't play his best years here.

I'm on the fence. Federov was a great player in Detroit but I do see the box that retiring his number would open.

Of the guys you listed I think Federov is the most deserving.

As for Vladimir, I like the unofficial retirement of his number, similar to #6.

#15 RainingBlood

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 01:03 PM

how about when Budd Lynch retires they put his name on a banner and a microphone where the number would go, and then the years he was the pa announcer.

#16 egroen

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 01:05 PM

QUOTE (mannysBETTER3434 @ October 15, 2008 - 01:40PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
He was a really great player when he was here, but see no reason to retire #91. Kind of like #14

Great research though!!

Thanks, but I think #91 is on a much higher level than #14.

Chelios' accomplishments as a Wing pale in comparison to his accomplishments with Chicago and even Montreal.

QUOTE
Number 5 should be retired next. No questions asked. Period. THE END.

I vote for #4 and then finally re-retire #6 (which is just shameful, if you ask me)... Lidstrom is not even retired yet.

Osgood at the very least needs another Cup and to beat more of Sawchuk's records to even be considered. Sawchuk is currently the only goalie up there and is ten times the goalie Osgood ever has been.

Based on a lot of the poster's criteria here for not inducting Fedorov, all of Abel, Lindsay, Sawchuk and Delvecchio would not be in the rafters today.

QUOTE
I'm on the fence. Federov was a great player in Detroit but I do see the box that retiring his number would open.

What box would it open? Who comes even close to accomplishing what Fedorov accomplished as a Red Wing and is not already up there? Kelly? Yes, and he should already be up there.

Edited by egroen, 15 October 2008 - 01:07 PM.

Red Kelly #4 and Larry Aurie #6 belong in the rafters!!!

"For my game, I don't need to score the goal," Konstantinov once explained. "I need someone to start thinking about me and forgetting about scoring goals."

#17 PROBIE4PREZ

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 01:10 PM

Vlad's # will always be unofficial retired but will never hang from the rafters
Chelios will get niether
Osgood will have to wait till he retires a Wing then look at the credentials
Fedorov's # needs to be up there .. no discussion needed
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#18 HenryMalredo

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 01:19 PM

I don't see why Chelios' name even enters teh conversation. A great player and a future HHoFer, who's played a long time with the Wings, but he was rarely an impact player during his time with Detroit.

#19 russianswede919293

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 01:21 PM

To me I would love that for Feds, but I don't see it happening. I just dont think the relationship from team to player and player to team is there.


As for Ozzie, He is #2 in every career statistic behind Sawchuk, and he will most likely pass him in others...would have had he not been behind Legace and Hasek for three years, which shows loyalty as well as talent and success...that is a man who deserves eternal glory in the Wings rafters.

#20 egroen

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 01:24 PM

5 players from the 50s dynasty are currently in the rafters:
Howe, Sawchuk, Lindsay, Abel and Delvecchio

Certainly well deserved, but this was not the only period of great success in the Red Wings history, and this fact should be represented in the rafters.

Edited by egroen, 15 October 2008 - 01:25 PM.

Red Kelly #4 and Larry Aurie #6 belong in the rafters!!!

"For my game, I don't need to score the goal," Konstantinov once explained. "I need someone to start thinking about me and forgetting about scoring goals."





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