A case for #91 in the rafters?

[egroen 384]

Toward the bottom of the page.

http://blog.mlive.com/snapshots/2008/03/bl...xing_fedor.html

Again, it's a safe assumption to suggest that, had Babcock been the only one to object to the trade, he would have been asked to reconsider. There was apparently some sort of consensus in the room that several people had major concerns about bringing Fedorov back to Detroit, and in all likelihood, the concerns were related to both Fedorov's on-ice performance and the substantial off-ice distractions that Fedorov faced during his later years as a Wing.

Fedorov's 91 shouldn't be raised to the rafters.

Wow, so the players were in the room with Wings management during the trade deadline?

That (your quote), of course, is in reference to the Wings scouts and brain trust... not the players, and it is pure conjecture of the reasoning behind that as well. I heard the same interview with Holland this comment was based on, and I got more of the sense that Columbus was simply asking more than what the Red Wings were willing to trade at the deadline for Fedorov (at a high premium, considering it was within the division). It sounded like Holland was still considering, but other members of management and the scouts were against it.

Even if we accept Fedorov was a "distraction" his last few years here... it obviously did not hinder them much when he was amongst the playoff leaders in points and the Wings won the Cup in 2002.

Edited October 18, 2008 by egroen

[auxlepli 17]

Do you really think the players would go on record? They wouldn't. That's close enough for me though.

[egroen 384]

Do you really think the players would go on record? They wouldn't. That's close enough for me though.

You are literally making up things at this point.

I heard once Yzerman said Lidstrom was overrated, but of course he would not go on the record...

[auxlepli 17]

No I'm not. I'm believing that it could be true that players could be part of the braintrust and that others could have had said they didn't want Fedorov back. Certainly seems reasonable to me. Fedorov sat out most of 97-98. This and other Fedorov actions like it I'm sure didn't endure him to his fellow players.

[egroen 384]

I'm believing that it could be true...

Exactly.

[auxlepli 17]

Numbers shouldn't be retired anymore either. The only franchise that has it right is Toronto. That's the way to do it.

[Anomalously 0]

If I have anything to add to this feud, I will say that Holland confers with Lidstrom AFTER deals are made. Holland said the first thing he did after agreeing to terms with Hossa was calling Lidstrom and Z.

He also said during negotiations with Hossa that he would have to call Lidstrom for Hossa to go over the "Lidstrom cap." That's a far cry from soliciting advice on deadline day.

If "the players" didn't think it was a good idea for Fedorov to return, the guys that would even have an opinion would be (in order of pecking order): Lidstrom, Draper, Maltby, Osgood, and Holmstrom. If anybody, they asked Lidstrom and Draper and kept it quiet (as in, I can't see Lidstrom and Draper leaking this to the press).

My guess is the only former teammate who got consulted was Yzerman, who is clearly in the inner circle. Babcock, too, since he coached Fedorov in Anaheim. I doubt they had to go any further down the line than a former teammate, a former coach, and a former GM.

[auxlepli 17]

Exactly.

Oh, and it's no less valid than your belief that just because Lindsay and Fedorov had similar numbers and both left under bad terms that Fedorov's number will someday be retired by the Red Wings organization.

[egroen 384]

Oh, and it's no less valid than your belief that just because Lindsay and Fedorov had similar numbers and both left under bad terms that Fedorov's number will someday be retired by the Red Wings organization.

Now be fair! I went a little further beyond, "I believe (with nothing to back it up), therefore it is..."

[norrisnick 1]

Toward the bottom of the page.

http://blog.mlive.com/snapshots/2008/03/bl...xing_fedor.html

Again, it's a safe assumption to suggest that, had Babcock been the only one to object to the trade, he would have been asked to reconsider. There was apparently some sort of consensus in the room that several people had major concerns about bringing Fedorov back to Detroit, and in all likelihood, the concerns were related to both Fedorov's on-ice performance and the substantial off-ice distractions that Fedorov faced during his later years as a Wing.

Fedorov's 91 shouldn't be raised to the rafters.

The room in question was not the lockerroom but the room containing Holland, Devellano, Bowman, Nill, Yzerman, and Babcock. And Kenny did make an offer for Fedorov. Holland just didn't agree to go all the way up to what Columbus was asking from the Wings.

If Fedorov's number shouldn't be in the rafters, take everyone but Howe and Stevie down.

[Dabura 12,207]

egroen, 91 won't be raised to the rafters. At this point, you're arguing that people are basing their counterarguments on nothing -- but at the same time, your argument basically rests on stats, and we all know the issue goes beyond stats and personal accolades. Also, you're talking about logic, but you seem quick to dismiss the idea that certain players could have provided input about a possible Feds return -- all because *zomg!* they weren't quoted. Which may not be illogical, per se, but is not exactly objective.

[norrisnick 1]

egroen, 91 won't be raised to the rafters. At this point, you're arguing that people are basing their counterarguments on nothing -- but at the same time, your argument basically rests on stats, and we all know the issue goes beyond stats and personal accolades. Also, you're talking about logic, but you seem quick to dismiss the idea that certain players could have provided input about a possible Feds return -- all because *zomg!* they weren't quoted. Which may not be illogical, per se, but is not exactly objective.

So being at worst the 2nd or 3rd most important player of a Red Wing era that won 3 Cups and was the most successful NHL franchise for over a decade. And that era is being continued to this day. Without the work that Fedorov put into this franchise, the Wings aren't where they are today. That isn't enough?

Stevie, Nick, and Sergei are the three pillars (along with Bowman) that put the Wings at the elite tier of the NHL. Not honoring that would just be petty.

[soultrain 43]

he left to be a star. i didn't forget about that. shanny left because he thought new york was the next team to come up. i grew up loving federov, and shanny...all of the early and mid ninties red wings. there was so many great players that should be honored in detroit. the next one to get his number retired should be #5. i don't think feds should be up there unless he signed on for a year...playing for the griffens.

[Nev 1,085]

shanny left because he thought new york was the next team to come up

No he didn't. He left because he wanted to get his foot in the door with the NHL and the TV companies. And his wife liked going to shows on Broadway.

Stevie, Nick, and Sergei are the three pillars (along with Bowman) that put the Wings at the elite tier of the NHL. Not honoring that would just be petty.

Give that man a cookie. FFS, the guy had 163 points in 162 playoff games. Not bad for a lazy player who only cared about money.

[DaKineMaui 8]

So being at worst the 2nd or 3rd most important player of a Red Wing era that won 3 Cups and was the most successful NHL franchise for over a decade. And that era is being continued to this day. Without the work that Fedorov put into this franchise, the Wings aren't where they are today. That isn't enough?

Stevie, Nick, and Sergei are the three pillars (along with Bowman) that put the Wings at the elite tier of the NHL. Not honoring that would just be petty.

Petty and selfish.

I am both.

I'm also biased against European NHLers. I am a bad person.

Sergei can have the HOF, a new car, whatever - Hell, I'll buy him dinner - not the rafter spot.

For whatever reason, he left a winning team......and I dunno - that whole thing with Carolina just irked me. And no - that wasn't all his fault - still irked me though.

[vangvace 12]

What is not "truly extraordinary" about Fedorov's time in Detroit?

The many shifts he took off...

His primadonna attitude...

The drama that always seems to follow him...

His twice attempted, once successful departure...

maybe in 30 years when these memories fade and only the highlight reels remain, if an Iilitch isn't still running the show.

There is a huge difference in how primadonorov left and Shanny left... can't compare. (and no Shanny isn't rafter worthy here either)

Side: I'd like to see the believe patch permanently in the rafters over a jersey retirement. (Possibly on the 1998 cup banner)

Stevie, Nick, and Sergei are the three pillars (along with Bowman) that put the Wings at the elite tier of the NHL. Not honoring that would just be petty.

Well it is the NHL so...

[Dabura 12,207]

So being at worst the 2nd or 3rd most important player of a Red Wing era that won 3 Cups and was the most successful NHL franchise for over a decade. And that era is being continued to this day. Without the work that Fedorov put into this franchise, the Wings aren't where they are today. That isn't enough?

No, it's not -- because, like I said, he burned his bridges here. He never liked the fact that he played second fiddle to Stevie, and he made it known. He butted heads with management. He created tension in the locker room. He let his personal life (i.e. his problems with Anna) shape his decisions and play at times.

As I also said, he was, in fact, a phenomenal player, and he was, in fact, an important part of the Wings' success starting in the 90s. But this is an organization that likes to pride itself on a sense of familial loyalty and togetherness -- things which, for better or for worse, Feds was never very big on. Would I be shocked if his number gets raised? No. Do I see it happening? No. Call it "petty" if you want, but that's the way I see it.

Edited October 18, 2008 by Dabura