Would you trade

[Doc Holiday 0]

Do you watch hockey outside of the Red Wings? I would consider Crosby a top 3 captain in the NHL. He has the drive that leads by example on a daily basis. He may be vocal about certain things in the public eye, but that only attests to how passionate he is about the game.

I guarantee that anyone who talks bad about him would certainly love him within a week of having him on your team.

Did you watch the finals? Game 4? Stuart's game 6 hit?

Those are reasons I don't believe he is a top leader at this stage.

[DatsyukownzU13 1]

Did you watch the finals? Game 4? Stuart's game 6 hit?

Those are reasons I don't believe he is a top leader at this stage.

Be more specific... what about his hit?

[Doc Holiday 0]

Be more specific... what about his hit?

After Crosby got to the bench he sat there throwing his water bottle on the ground and just overall acting pissy because he got hit.

[Shutemdown 23]

Do you watch hockey outside of the Red Wings? I would consider Crosby a top 3 captain in the NHL. He has the drive that leads by example on a daily basis. He may be vocal about certain things in the public eye, but that only attests to how passionate he is about the game.

I guarantee that anyone who talks bad about him would certainly love him within a week of having him on your team.

Do you surgically attach yourself to any other player's nuts, or just Crosby's?

Honestly, I'm sick of hearing this kid is the second-coming of God, himself.

Sure, he deserves praise for the stats he puts up, I just get ruffled when there are fans everywhere with their Crosby-blinders on that think he's God on skates.

He's young, and he's still got alot to learn about the game. Everyone can put the puck in the net, but only some can carry themselves on a higher level. The game and it's inner-workings has more to do with it than just putting up stats.

I'm not jumping on his bandwagon just because I saw him on some Tim Horton's commercials or because Gary Bettman told me to. The kid still has a long way to go before he gets it.

Until then, he does make for some pretty heated debates...

And yeah... I watch as much hockey as I can ( a pretty large amount of my time is spent watching hockey games, doesn't matter what team ), I'm still not drinking the Crybaby kool-aid.

[esteef 2,679]

I wouldn't trade either one for Sid. Dats and Zetts are the best 1-2 punch in the league. Don't need a "Crosby" to come along and mess that up. Hell, we don't even need a "Hossa"! Sid the Kid can play I'll give him that, but I don't want him.

esteef

[robat 13]

Dats and Z for Ovie and Semin

[donfishmaster 62]

I would do it.... would you?

Discuss.

no.

Discuss? You're an idiot for even bringing it up. Next?

[Bertmondi 19]

Fickle Wings Fans.

I'd probably trade you're two top...10 (not top 5) forwards for Sid. And I'd certainly trade either one of them in a heartbeat.

1. Sid

2. Alex

3. Iginla

4. Lecavelier

5. Malkin

Before last season's cup you were practically running your boys out of town.

No doubt Z and D are awesome players but Crosby they are not. They grew up in the Wings culture and they have been mentored and tutored by Yzerman, Shanahan, and Lidstrom in a winning tradtion. They have had a tremendous leg up on Crosby and yet they are still not even the best players on your team.

A few more losses to Toronto and Vancouver and most of you would be all over this deal.

And for those of you scoffing at the 1 for 1 suggestion you really need to consider what you're claiming.

[Heaton 1]

Like others have said, a one for one trade makes sense, but both? Talk about a massive overpayment.

We trade Datsyuk and Zetterberg for Crosby prior to the playoffs last year and we don't win the cup. 'Nuff said.

[esteef 2,679]

Before last season's cup you were practically running your boys out of town.

No doubt Z and D are awesome players but Crosby they are not. They grew up in the Wings culture and they have been mentored and tutored by Yzerman, Shanahan, and Lidstrom in a winning tradtion. They have had a tremendous leg up on Crosby and yet they are still not even the best players on your team.

Running Dats and Zetts "out of town"?

I agree, they DO have a tremendous leg up on Crosby, but who on the Wings is a better forward than Dats and Zetts? Please enlighten us. (And don't give me the 'I said "player", and feed me Lidstrom cause he's a defenseman and that's apples and oranges to the context of this thread).

esteef

[Shutemdown 23]

Fickle Wings Fans.

I'd probably trade you're two top...10 (not top 5) forwards for Sid. And I'd certainly trade either one of them in a heartbeat.

1. Sid

2. Alex

3. Iginla

4. Lecavelier

5. Malkin

Before last season's cup you were practically running your boys out of town.

No doubt Z and D are awesome players but Crosby they are not. They grew up in the Wings culture and they have been mentored and tutored by Yzerman, Shanahan, and Lidstrom in a winning tradtion. They have had a tremendous leg up on Crosby and yet they are still not even the best players on your team.

A few more losses to Toronto and Vancouver and most of you would be all over this deal.

And for those of you scoffing at the 1 for 1 suggestion you really need to consider what you're claiming.

Yikes... where to begin.

The fact that you have Iginla and Lecavelier in your top 5 make me wonder. The fact that you have malkin and Crosby on the list and neither one of Zetterberg and Pav on there confirms it: You may not know what you're talking about.

Next...

They have had a tremendous leg up on Crosby and yet they are still not even the best players on your team.

Please, enlighten me, who are the best players on the Red Wings, then?

No one said they were anywhere NEAR Crosby... the question was simply, "would you trade this guy for these guys, or even Crosby for just one." In either case, I wouldn't.

Having been tutored by the best, Pav and Z have all of the training and role models they need to be great. On top of that, they fit into our system.

Skill-wise, Crosby trumps them, but only in offensive-upside. Defensively, though, I'd take either Pav or Z, hands down.

How'd the kool-aid taste?

[donfishmaster 62]

Fickle Wings Fans.

I'd probably trade you're two top...10 (not top 5) forwards for Sid. And I'd certainly trade either one of them in a heartbeat.

1. Sid

2. Alex

3. Iginla

4. Lecavelier

5. Malkin

Before last season's cup you were practically running your boys out of town.

No doubt Z and D are awesome players but Crosby they are not. They grew up in the Wings culture and they have been mentored and tutored by Yzerman, Shanahan, and Lidstrom in a winning tradtion. They have had a tremendous leg up on Crosby and yet they are still not even the best players on your team.

A few more losses to Toronto and Vancouver and most of you would be all over this deal.

And for those of you scoffing at the 1 for 1 suggestion you really need to consider what you're claiming.

Wow, analysis unhindered by actual thought...Thanks for your addition.

Much like in the movie "Miracle," the best players wouldn't necessarily make for the best team. Stevie Y gets a lot of credit for making sure those superstars coming in during the pre-cap days were PART of the team, not THE team. If Sindy came aboard, it would be all about him...his whining, simpering, crappy penalty-killing, soft-ass self. Sindy would never have accomplished what Hank did during that infamous 5-on-3 during the playoffs because he doesn't feel he needs to, the archtypical "that's not my job, I'm a superstar" philosophy.

So while you accurately assessed that they aren't Crosby and that the system makes them what they are, you fail to take the next logical step and realize that Crosby would never be THEM, nor would he be able/willing to be part of that system.

It's a long season, and the Wings undoubtedly will lose more games. Duh.

Who wouldn't want Ovechkin on their team? Not worth losing the chemistry of a STANLEY CUP CHAMPION, though.

The others aren't worth mentioning.

What an idiot. Trade Conn Smythe/Selke Stanley Cup champs for a Sindy who has won...ummmmm....lets's see........

Well, he gets a lot of press.

You fail.

[Guest CaliWingsNut]

I thought I should add to my previous comment w/ a new post.

Z+ Dats are likely to post around if not more than 200 points this year largely on different lines (pending health etc..). Lets see Crosby do that.

Edited October 17, 2008 by CaliWingsNut

[CenterIce 83]

I would do it.... would you?

Discuss.

No way!

[b.shanafan14 733]

Do you watch hockey outside of the Red Wings? I would consider Crosby a top 3 captain in the NHL. He has the drive that leads by example on a daily basis. He may be vocal about certain things in the public eye, but that only attests to how passionate he is about the game.

I guarantee that anyone who talks bad about him would certainly love him within a week of having him on your team.

Honestly, top 3 captain?? There is plenty more to being a captain than wearing the C and putting up points. Crosby is NO WHERE near top captain in the NHL, no matter how much Bettman and the media would like to think so. The kid has a long way to go, not to say he won't get there, but right now, not a chance. He gets his feathers ruffled so easily and would rather complain then give a stiff upper lip and galvanize his team.

Also, did anyone see how much hype the Caps-Pens game got last night and they talked to Ovechkin and he said he didn't like how they are always compared, and the media guys were like "oh, he's just saying that". I'm sure Ovie is actually quite sick of "oh, you're playing the Pens, are you gonna watch Sid?!". And it seems that Crosby stands alone as Crosby, but bring up Ovechkin and at least 1/4 of the time you instantly get met with a Crosby reference. Personally, I never liked Crosby from day one, I think his skills are ridiculous, but he doesn't carry himself as well as I think a captain should, which will have him as the youngest, but far inferior to others. Its like a really sad, pouty version of Iginla on a bad day when he starts to goon.

Edited October 17, 2008 by b.shanafan14

[wingsfan13 0]

Hell no.

[hokeychik22 17]

Never!

[Bertmondi 19]

Wow, analysis unhindered by actual thought...Thanks for your addition.

Much like in the movie "Miracle," the best players wouldn't necessarily make for the best team. Stevie Y gets a lot of credit for making sure those superstars coming in during the pre-cap days were PART of the team, not THE team. If Sindy came aboard, it would be all about him...his whining, simpering, crappy penalty-killing, soft-ass self. Sindy would never have accomplished what Hank did during that infamous 5-on-3 during the playoffs because he doesn't feel he needs to, the archtypical "that's not my job, I'm a superstar" philosophy.

So while you accurately assessed that they aren't Crosby and that the system makes them what they are, you fail to take the next logical step and realize that Crosby would never be THEM, nor would he be able/willing to be part of that system.

It's a long season, and the Wings undoubtedly will lose more games. Duh.

Who wouldn't want Ovechkin on their team? Not worth losing the chemistry of a STANLEY CUP CHAMPION, though.

The others aren't worth mentioning.

What an idiot. Trade Conn Smythe/Selke Stanley Cup champs for a Sindy who has won...ummmmm....lets's see........

Well, he gets a lot of press.

You fail.

I said player, because I meant player. Nick Lidstrom is one of the best, if not the best player EVER. Ok, maybe not ever. But you get my point. Lidstrom is the straw the stirs your drink there in Detroit.

Vincent Lecavelier has done what...won a cup with a team not NEARLY as stacked as Detroit was last year. Iginla has carried that Flames franchise for a decade. And Malkin...well just wait on him.

What you guys don't understand is that I am looking at this trade from the perspective of the future. Unless you think Datsyuk is like Yzmerman, Sakic and Lemieux he is due to level off sharply in the next couple of seasons. Many players who peak late and perform at a high level from late 20s to early 30s only sustain for a few short years.

This is not to say that you would be better off with Crosby than Z and D this season, but 5 years from now and 10 years from now you are certainly better of with Crosby.

Don't overall value your stars players because you are comfortable with them. Don't assume Crosby wouldn't buy into the Wings machine because he's Syd the Kid. The reality of the situation is Crosby is a student of the game -- and he respects his elders and goes about his business much like Wayne Gretzky. If you think Yzerman, Howe and Lidstrom aren't enough to mold Crosby into what you want him to be (like Z and D?), you're out to lunch.

Just because you might not like Crosby's on ice personality doesn't mean he isn't a fantastic player. Capable of making any team (ANY TEAM) better.

Some of you guys are the one's drinking the cool-aid.

Haha, just kidding. You don't break up a cup winner.

[Holmstrom96Screens 0]

Crosby once said about the dreaded 5 on 3 in the scf something to the effect of

'big deal - lots of players can do that whats so spectacular about that?'

and yes, Doc Holiday I saw the water bottle incident. And honestly I was thinking, Come on, Sid Oh for christs sake, just cause you got hit?

Certainly dats and zett have never put up the points crosby did but they are different types of players. Cosby can hardly play defence if his life depended on it; Zett and Dats are defensive forwards and sometimes while your doing that sometimes a drop in pts can be inevitable. (read Ryder's story of how he was once the habs top scorer for two seasons and then Carbs wanted him to play more defense so he did and his points dropped but he improved his +/-.) Hey, it happens. Zett and Dats are better all around than Crosby. Thats one reason I would say no to taking crosby over them.

The other reason is the leadership ability. and i believe Crosby can't beat them at that. Zett and Dats are guys who can take a few hits without throwing water bottles around. Crosby has a lot more to learn yet before he can really be a good captain for the Pens.

[DaKineMaui 8]

Instead of starting a thread?

Try:

[esteef 2,679]

I said player, because I meant player. Nick Lidstrom is one of the best, if not the best player EVER. Ok, maybe not ever. But you get my point. Lidstrom is the straw the stirs your drink there in Detroit.

Vincent Lecavelier has done what...won a cup with a team not NEARLY as stacked as Detroit was last year. Iginla has carried that Flames franchise for a decade. And Malkin...well just wait on him.

What you guys don't understand is that I am looking at this trade from the perspective of the future. Unless you think Datsyuk is like Yzmerman, Sakic and Lemieux he is due to level off sharply in the next couple of seasons. Many players who peak late and perform at a high level from late 20s to early 30s only sustain for a few short years.

This is not to say that you would be better off with Crosby than Z and D this season, but 5 years from now and 10 years from now you are certainly better of with Crosby.

Don't overall value your stars players because you are comfortable with them. Don't assume Crosby wouldn't buy into the Wings machine because he's Syd the Kid. The reality of the situation is Crosby is a student of the game -- and he respects his elders and goes about his business much like Wayne Gretzky. If you think Yzerman, Howe and Lidstrom aren't enough to mold Crosby into what you want him to be (like Z and D?), you're out to lunch.

Just because you might not like Crosby's on ice personality doesn't mean he isn't a fantastic player. Capable of making any team (ANY TEAM) better.

Some of you guys are the one's drinking the cool-aid.

Haha, just kidding. You don't break up a cup winner.

You're just rambling now. No one said he's not a fantastic player or that he wouldn't make "any team better", so stop sucking Sid's cock long enough to comprehend what you're reading. All they said is they wouldn't trade Dats or Zetts for him. And since you don't like that answer (obviously cause you're all up on Crosby's sack) you start lashing out and bringing up defensemen, etc. How are you so certain that Dats (and Zetts) production will tail off? Just because we won a Cup doesn't make them washed up old news all of the sudden. Datsyuk could stick handle circles around Crosby! We have plenty more years of both of those guys producing not only offensively but defensively as well. And how are you so certain that Sid's gonna turn into this awesome player as he gets older? The answer is, you're not. The whole purpose of your posts have been to slob more of Crosby's knob than to seriously discuss trades.

Good day sir.

esteef

[Holmstrom96Screens 0]

"Vincent Lecavelier has done what...won a cup with a team not NEARLY as stacked as Detroit was last year"

one difference between the Lightning win and the detroit win is that Detroit won the cup in 2008 and thatis not in doubt; while the Tampa Bay win was surrounded with a bit of contraversy. Not nearly as stacked - and contraversy to boot.

[BeeRYCE 2]

I wouldn't trade one of those guys for Crosby let alone both. While Crosby is more able to put up serious points, Datsyuk and Zetterberg's defensive ability combined with their offense is uncanny, not to mention their good sportsmanship.

[Proud 2 B a Wings Fan 0]

Not in a Detroit minute!!!!

[Bertmondi 19]

You're just rambling now. No one said he's not a fantastic player or that he wouldn't make "any team better", so stop sucking Sid's cock long enough to comprehend what you're reading. All they said is they wouldn't trade Dats or Zetts for him. And since you don't like that answer (obviously cause you're all up on Crosby's sack) you start lashing out and bringing up defensemen, etc. How are you so certain that Dats (and Zetts) production will tail off? Just because we won a Cup doesn't make them washed up old news all of the sudden. Datsyuk could stick handle circles around Crosby! We have plenty more years of both of those guys producing not only offensively but defensively as well. And how are you so certain that Sid's gonna turn into this awesome player as he gets older? The answer is, you're not. The whole purpose of your posts have been to slob more of Crosby's knob than to seriously discuss trades.

Good day sir.

esteef

Dude I personally think Crosby is kind of a *****. I just respect his skill as a hockey player. And I'm sure you'll see what I mean in 2010 when he slices up Sweden and Russia on the way to gold.

I don't know if its lost on you or not, but if you're busy in the offensive zone then you don't need a heck of a lot of defensive skills. The other team can't score 200' from the net. Not to mention there are 3rd and 4th line players on most team who all they do is play defensive hockey.

Also, not to mention defensive skills can be taught, offensive flair is pretty much something you cannot coach. Also Sid isn't that brutal in his defensive zone.

THERE IS NOT DOUBT Z AND D ARE FANTASTIC HOCKEY PLAYERS. They are stars in this league and great ones at that, but Crosby is once or twice in a generation type talent. And if you don't believe me, ask Gretzky.

Z and D are good defensively because they are veterans and they know the game of hockey from years of experience. 5 years ago Crosby was in high school. Of course he's still learning the game. But to put up 120+ points before you're 20, just look at all the guys who have done that before him and how they turned out.

I'm not crapping on your stars, god knows I'd pay a lot to have either of those guys on my team.

I'm just saying 2 for 1 is a discussion worth having and 1 for 1 is a done deal. Think about it this way, if you were GM in Pittsburgh would you flip Crosby for Zetterberg?

One thing I will give you dudes credit for (unlike boards elsewhere around the league) is that you've refrained (mostly) from name calling and insulting in order to have a reasonable chat even when you take what I'm saying as offensive.

Well done.

Edited October 17, 2008 by Bertmondi