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Why not Hossa on the point?


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#1 Pavel Hossyukstrom

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Posted 20 October 2008 - 11:09 PM

Ok I like Sammy's D as a forward but why is he still on the point this year? Since we have Hossa now. If I were Babs I would keep the lines the way they are with Z and D split but the power play would be this:

Z-D-Holmstrom

Lids-Rafalski


then

Huds-Flip-Franzen

Kronwall-Hossa

or even

Hossa-Flip-Franzen

Kronwall-Stu



Get Flip some power play time at least

Edited by Pavel Hossyukstrom, 20 October 2008 - 11:11 PM.

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#2 norrisnick

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Posted 21 October 2008 - 04:22 AM

You do realize the one and only reason that Samuelsson is on the point to begin with is because he's a right-handed shot, right?

Apparently that disqualifies everyone but Mikael, Maltby, and Chelios. Meech should be using all this extra practice time working on becoming ambidextrous.

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#3 b.shanafan14

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Posted 21 October 2008 - 08:28 AM

Samuelsson on the point during PP continues to be the worst idea I've seen linger. The guy has an uncontrolable shot, half the time can't hold the zone and all this is better than the instances when he all of a sudden believes he is Gretzky and can just walk around the opposition on his way to the net like a kid playing NHL 09, thus vacating the point for an easy clear or short-handed chance when he inevitably coughs up the puck. I personally don't think there is a forward I would want on the point that wouldn't be better served to work the puck down low.

#4 GMRwings1983

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Posted 21 October 2008 - 08:57 AM

Who cares if Sammy is right-handed. We already have one right-handed point-man in Rafalski, and as other teams have shown, you don't need any more than that. Heck, some teams only have guys who shoot left-handed on the point, and it seems to work out fine.

The only problem with Hossa on the point is that he's more of a set-up man in the slot and in front of the net, rather than a guy with a booming shot.

In my opinion, Ericsson should replace Lebda and become our other point-man on the PP. He's got a great shot, and he will complement Kronwall well, I think.
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#5 NeverForgetMac25

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Posted 21 October 2008 - 09:03 AM

QUOTE (GMRwings1983 @ October 21, 2008 - 08:57AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Who cares if Sammy is right-handed. We already have one right-handed point-man in Rafalski, and as other teams have shown, you don't need any more than that. Heck, some teams only have guys who shoot left-handed on the point, and it seems to work out fine.

The only problem with Hossa on the point is that he's more of a set-up man in the slot and in front of the net, rather than a guy with a booming shot.

Do you seriously not understand the benefit of having a LH/RH tandem on the blueline for a PP?

QUOTE (GMRwings1983 @ October 21, 2008 - 08:57AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
In my opinion, Ericsson should replace Lebda and become our other point-man on the PP. He's got a great shot, and he will complement Kronwall well, I think.

The Wings already have enough of a Cap space issue and Ericsson only amplifies that. We all know how "great" it would be to have Ericsson up, but its not just about that. We've all discussed this already.
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#6 GMRwings1983

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Posted 21 October 2008 - 09:14 AM

QUOTE (NeverForgetMac25 @ October 21, 2008 - 09:03AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Do you seriously not understand the benefit of having a LH/RH tandem on the blueline for a PP?


The Wings already have enough of a Cap space issue and Ericsson only amplifies that. We all know how "great" it would be to have Ericsson up, but its not just about that. We've all discussed this already.


Do you seriously not understand that Sammy provides no benefit the way that Rafalski does? There's nothing wrong with having two left-handed point-men on our second PP unit.

Believe me, Sammy's absence on the PP would not makes us any worse.
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#7 Heaton

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Posted 21 October 2008 - 09:26 AM

QUOTE (GMRwings1983 @ October 21, 2008 - 10:14AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Do you seriously not understand that Sammy provides no benefit the way that Rafalski does? There's nothing wrong with having two left-handed point-men on our second PP unit.

Believe me, Sammy's absence on the PP would not makes us any worse.


While teams have shown you can have all lefties and be successful, the Wings always showed during the playoffs against Pittsburgh that all lefties can be a detriment because it turns into a half ice game with only one-timers on one side.
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#8 GMRwings1983

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Posted 21 October 2008 - 09:30 AM

QUOTE (Heaton @ October 21, 2008 - 09:26AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
While teams have shown you can have all lefties and be successful, the Wings always showed during the playoffs against Pittsburgh that all lefties can be a detriment because it turns into a half ice game with only one-timers on one side.


That's not true because most of our forwards on the PP are left handed, yet it doesn't slow us down. Rafalski is the only real right-handed threat we have.

The Wings don't rely on one-timers as much as they used to when Fedorov, Shanahan and Hull were here. We don't have forwards anymore that possess a booming one-time shot.
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#9 Shutemdown

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Posted 21 October 2008 - 09:39 AM

QUOTE (GMRwings1983 @ October 21, 2008 - 10:30AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
We don't have forwards anymore that possess a booming one-time shot.


Technically Hossa fills that void. He proved to everyone time and again that he has one hell of a one-timer. He has a very hard shot that is not only accurate but extremely quick.

I think Hossa would make a great point man. Fast, solid defensively, quick, hard shot...


#10 Heaton

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Posted 21 October 2008 - 09:42 AM

No. Hossa's strength is down low since there's few defensemen who can contain him. Putting him on the point takes away a lot of his effectiveness.
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#11 NeverForgetMac25

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Posted 21 October 2008 - 09:53 AM

QUOTE (GMRwings1983 @ October 21, 2008 - 09:30AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
That's not true because most of our forwards on the PP are left handed, yet it doesn't slow us down. Rafalski is the only real right-handed threat we have.

The Wings don't rely on one-timers as much as they used to when Fedorov, Shanahan and Hull were here. We don't have forwards anymore that possess a booming one-time shot.

So if the booming one-time shot isn't there for the Wings, why is it that Raf brings *so* much more to the first unit than Sammy does to the second? It's not about having a booming shot, its about being able to move the puck and holding the zone with more ease. So yes, Sammy *does* provide some of the benefits that Rafalski brings.

Lets just call a spade a spade....those that want Sammy off the 2nd PP unit feel that way because he's the LGW whipping boy.
It's amazing how much clarity comes when you care more about the Red Wings than any individual player.


"They are the best team in the world. They are a team that can just take over when they want to," Chicago's Patrick Kane said (of the Detroit Red Wings).

#12 CenterIce

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Posted 21 October 2008 - 11:30 AM

My biggest thing is that only a few forwards are really good at the point, because if they have to drop back defensively, they have issues. I really think they need another defenseman back there.

#13 NeverForgetMac25

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Posted 21 October 2008 - 11:36 AM

QUOTE (CenterIce @ October 21, 2008 - 11:30AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
My biggest thing is that only a few forwards are really good at the point, because if they have to drop back defensively, they have issues. I really think they need another defenseman back there.

That can be true, but Sammy is good at dropping back defensively if need be.
It's amazing how much clarity comes when you care more about the Red Wings than any individual player.


"They are the best team in the world. They are a team that can just take over when they want to," Chicago's Patrick Kane said (of the Detroit Red Wings).

#14 HadThomasVokounOnFortSt

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Posted 21 October 2008 - 11:47 AM

Why you see more forwards on defense is because of there shots. Also if a forward is on the point it also depends on what handed they are.
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#15 norrisnick

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Posted 21 October 2008 - 03:50 PM

QUOTE (NeverForgetMac25 @ October 21, 2008 - 09:53AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So if the booming one-time shot isn't there for the Wings, why is it that Raf brings *so* much more to the first unit than Sammy does to the second? It's not about having a booming shot, its about being able to move the puck and holding the zone with more ease. So yes, Sammy *does* provide some of the benefits that Rafalski brings.

Lets just call a spade a spade....those that want Sammy off the 2nd PP unit feel that way because he's the LGW whipping boy.


And it is precisely those elements and Sammy's inability to function at even a basic level providing those elements that have made him the whipping boy. He's a trainwreck with the puck on his stick.

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#16 NeverForgetMac25

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Posted 21 October 2008 - 04:00 PM

QUOTE (norrisnick @ October 21, 2008 - 03:50PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And it is precisely those elements and Sammy's inability to function at even a basic level providing those elements that have made him the whipping boy. He's a trainwreck with the puck on his stick.

This is a gross overstatement NN. Seriously, if Samuelsson had no ability to function at even a basic level providing those elements, why does Babcock continue to put him out there? There are 8 other players not used on the first or second PP units. Surely if Sammy was so poor, Babs could find a reason to put any one of those 8 out there rather than Samuelsson.

The fact is Sammy is the best option (with the remaining players) back there due to his defensive responsibility and the fact that he's a RH shot. If he was so incompetent at everything else, Babs wouldn't be so "blind" as to continue putting him out there.
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"They are the best team in the world. They are a team that can just take over when they want to," Chicago's Patrick Kane said (of the Detroit Red Wings).

#17 norrisnick

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Posted 21 October 2008 - 04:46 PM

QUOTE (NeverForgetMac25 @ October 21, 2008 - 04:00PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This is a gross overstatement NN. Seriously, if Samuelsson had no ability to function at even a basic level providing those elements, why does Babcock continue to put him out there? There are 8 other players not used on the first or second PP units. Surely if Sammy was so poor, Babs could find a reason to put any one of those 8 out there rather than Samuelsson.

The fact is Sammy is the best option (with the remaining players) back there due to his defensive responsibility and the fact that he's a RH shot. If he was so incompetent at everything else, Babs wouldn't be so "blind" as to continue putting him out there.


You would think, but if you honestly watch what he does out there on a nightly basis you can't excuse it. He's a righty with better puck skills than Maltby or Chelios. Good job being better than Maltby and Chelios but you can't tell me that putting a guy like Stuart on that point will be a detriment. Hell, with Z and Franzen up front I'd rather have Sammy and Hudler switch positions. Hudler ran GR's PP from the point in '06 when he had his monster season. Better puck skills, decision making, etc... Sammy is better chasing down a guy should a PKer get by him, but Hudler would be better at preventing a turnover heading the other way to begin with.

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#18 NeverForgetMac25

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Posted 21 October 2008 - 05:02 PM

QUOTE (norrisnick @ October 21, 2008 - 04:46PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You would think, but if you honestly watch what he does out there on a nightly basis you can't excuse it. He's a righty with better puck skills than Maltby or Chelios. Good job being better than Maltby and Chelios but you can't tell me that putting a guy like Stuart on that point will be a detriment

Never once did I say or imply that. I simply stated that Babs likes having the LH/RH combination on the point and for obvious reasons. Stuart absolutely wouldn't be a detriment on the blue line, but obviously Babs isn't just looking for who wouldn't be a detriment, he's looking for assets and he must find Sammy's defensive responsibility and RH'ed shot to be more appealing than any of the LH'ed options.

Sidnote: No one is congratulating Sammy for being the best option of Maltby and Cheli (that's not much of a compliment), but obviously Babs sees enough in him that it makes more sense for him back there rather than another LH'er.

QUOTE (norrisnick @ October 21, 2008 - 04:46PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hell, with Z and Franzen up front I'd rather have Sammy and Hudler switch positions. Hudler ran GR's PP from the point in '06 when he had his monster season. Better puck skills, decision making, etc... Sammy is better chasing down a guy should a PKer get by him, but Hudler would be better at preventing a turnover heading the other way to begin with.

That' sounds great NN, and I'd be on board for that as well. However, Babs continues to stick Sammy back there thus it doesn't seem like much of an option. While Hudler most certainly has better vision/hockey sense, Babs definitely seems more interested in the fact that Sammy is better defensively and an RH.
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"They are the best team in the world. They are a team that can just take over when they want to," Chicago's Patrick Kane said (of the Detroit Red Wings).

#19 Heaton

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Posted 21 October 2008 - 05:07 PM

Stuart's puckhandling skills are right there with Samuelsson.

Just trade Lebda and put Meech there.
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#20 GoWings1905

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Posted 21 October 2008 - 06:50 PM

QUOTE (Heaton @ October 21, 2008 - 06:07PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Stuart's puckhandling skills are right there with Samuelsson.

Just trade Lebda and put Meech there.


^ This is by far the best option mentioned.

Good call Heaton.
 
 
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