Holland's stance on Enforcers: Once and For All

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

The meaning of this thread was to post an article that explains Holland's feelings about enforcers rather than how we all feel about them. A lot of members here like to state the "reason Holland doesn't like enforcers" and this is a nice way of actually hearing the truth from the horse's mouth rather than some people's fabricated reasons about Holland's feelings.

I still think that Holland doesn't like enforcers because he's a card-carrying communist who smokes marijuana and probably got beat up by enforcers when he played hockey as a kid.

[Dabura 12,207]

Hey, remember when we got pummeled in last year's playoffs because we didn't have an enforcer? To think: if we'd only dressed one, we might have won the Cup. Ah, what could've been...

[Doggy 130]

Skill is measured in money is it?

Zetterberg doesnt appear to be very good in that case.

He's kinda saying the opposite of that bro.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

Hey, remember when we got pummeled in last year's playoffs because we didn't have an enforcer? To think: if we'd only dressed one, we might have won the Cup. Ah, what could've been...

Remember what happened the 3 prior years before that? Maybe we could have used a little toughness then, genius.

Don't live in the past so much.

[Dabura 12,207]

Remember what happened the 3 prior years before that?

Don't live in the past so much.

[Doggy 130]

I think he said those things in jest Dabura.

[Dabura 12,207]

It's tough to know where he's coming from when 99% of what he says is inane.

For the record, though: last year is a very good indicator of how many enforcers this team needs, considering it was, you know, a few months ago, and this lineup has barely changed, and none of this team's big foes have gotten considerably tougher.

Bottom line, we only "need" more fighters to appease some hardcore Bruise Brothers fans.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

It's tough to know where he's coming from when 99% of what he says is inane.

For the record, though: last year is a very good indicator of how many enforcers this team needs, considering it was, you know, a few months ago, and this lineup has barely changed, and none of this team's big foes have gotten considerably tougher.

Bottom line, we only "need" more fighters to appease some hardcore Bruise Brothers fans.

Just 99%?

Are you saying there's hope for me yet, Dabura?

[Dabura 12,207]

Nah, I'm just drunk 1% of the time.

[Dabura 12,207]

But I will say this: I hate the "Our PP is our enforcer" attitude. It's chicken-s***.

But with a team like this, you can afford to talk like that and still come out on top.

[Mors 201]

It's tough to know where he's coming from when 99% of what he says is inane.

For the record, though: last year is a very good indicator of how many enforcers this team needs, considering it was, you know, a few months ago, and this lineup has barely changed, and none of this team's big foes have gotten considerably tougher.

Bottom line, we only "need" more fighters to appease some hardcore Bruise Brothers fans.

Wait I haven't been paying attention, which side are you on? Downey played 56 games last season and things seem to have worked out nicely

[Dabura 12,207]

And the regular season would have worked out nicely without him. And he played zero games in the postseason. Which doesn't really support the "We need enforcers" argument. I understand their value -- everyone does. But, like I said, there's no burning need for Holland to stick a fighter or two in the lineup ASAP ZOMG.

[GoWings1905 2,694]

Wait I haven't been paying attention, which side are you on? Downey played 56 games last season and things seem to have worked out nicely

Downey played zero games in the playoffs and that worked out quite nicely too.

[servo 15]

I'd much prefer to see the Wings win Cups than the days of Probert bashing the hell out of people while we all went home after another losing streak.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

The last time our PP was our enforcer, we were out in the 1st round against Edmonton. I dont like that Holland came out and said that, it's 5 games in. When it's 40 games in, people start gunning, and gunning hard. It'll get ugly before it'll be pretty.

But whatever, there going to win the cup hopefully, and my stance on how important an enforcer is wont change anything, so why waste bandwith.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Kopecky makes a million less than Laraque, who also makes more than Hudler, Franzen or Samuelsson. Laraque might be better than Kopecky...but he's not a million dollars better. He's MARGINALLY better if at all. Kopecky is a better skater and a better defensive player, and fits the Wings' system better.

Laraque has been a consistent point getting enforcer. The guy had less then 10 points once, and he's usually always played on the 4th line. Kopecky can barely stand on his skates, he and Laraque and very close when it comes to skating. Defence? Laraque is +12 in his career playing for Edmonton, Phoenix and Pittsburgh. It isnt all about stats, but you'll never hear a bad thing about Laraque as far as defensive play is concerned from his old coaches. Kopecky is +1 playing 4th line, obviously has only started his career, but it isnt saying much. I've watched him the past 3 years, he isnt anything special on defence. How about this, Laraque had 13 points in 71 games last year, and Kopecky had 12 in 77. Laraque is probably the best enforcer in the NHL, because he can contribute. Until Kopecky proves he's better then Laraque, he just aint.

[Skiing - Puck 0]

Cause that happens so often. I'm surprised we have a full lineup with how soft this team plays...

Your right, no Red Wings player has ever been taken out via a cheap shot or unneccisary hit. Seems to mee that that player in your sig and avatar was a recipient of one or two of those cheap shots in the 06-07 season. This happend about two weeks after another wing being hauled off the ice.

I am not saying that things like that happen often, but they do happen.

It is clear that the pro-enforcer crowd and the anti-enforcer crowd will ever agree on this issue. Both sides keep recycling the same old arguments (Downey did soooo much in the post season last year, Enforcers improve team moral and act as a deterent) it is starting to get kind of annoying, and I admit that I am part of the problem. It is kind of stupid to keep arguing this when it is clear that no ones mind will ever get changed.

[Guest Crymson]

The last time our PP was our enforcer, we were out in the 1st round against Edmonton. I dont like that Holland came out and said that, it's 5 games in. When it's 40 games in, people start gunning, and gunning hard. It'll get ugly before it'll be pretty.

But whatever, there going to win the cup hopefully, and my stance on how important an enforcer is wont change anything, so why waste bandwith.

I think you've forgotten '06-'07, in which things were basically the same.

Edited October 22, 2008 by Crymson

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

I'd much prefer to see the Wings win Cups than the days of Probert bashing the hell out of people while we all went home after another losing streak.

In Probert's prime bashing days, like '87 and '88 the Wings made it to the conference finals and both times lost to the eventual Cup champion Edmonton Oilers.

[Guest Crymson]

In Probert's prime bashing days, like '87 and '88 the Wings made it to the conference finals and both times lost to the eventual Cup champion Edmonton Oilers.

Probert was also scoring back then---- 13g/11a in '86-'87 and 29g/33p in '87-'88. As such, I don't think he's a good example to be using in this discussion.

Edited October 22, 2008 by Crymson

[vangvace 12]

I believe that it's just magnified this season because of all the talent the team has. Last year the Wings were fine with Downey playing regularly and then signing McCarty at the end of the year. This season is a special season, this is a one year window and I feel that just the mere fact of Downey and McCarty being resigned reaffirms my belief that Holland cares about the players being protected but I guess he's not as proactive as many would like.

After this season there's going to be changes, there's going to be more room for different types of players to make an impact but for the time being, with the Wings cap room, and the players who are currently in the lineup there's not enough of a justification to have that insurance policy out there. Once the season gets going a little bit I'm sure we'll see a lot more callups.

We all know during the playoffs the Wings play a more in your face brand of hockey and I think this lineup is more conducive to the playoffs than any other year I can think of.

On a side note, I'd be shocked if the Wings didn't bring in another hungry veteran for the playoff grind, just for extra motivation.

I tried really hard to find something to bicker about in this post... but the best I can come up with is the org can be loyal to a fault. Sums up the current situation pretty well.

Holland made me die a little inside again. Maybe because Holland was a goalie he has a this PP is our enforcer stick.

I find it funny that they can find all the 7th round uber-skill diamonds but the last successful pick that fought was... Fisher?

This will be fun to talk about next offseason when things might be able to change a little. Or next week, whichever

[HenryMalredo 2]

I don't see what the big deal is. Its not like McCarty and Downey are gone from the team. If they are needed, they are around. Lets face it, they're liabilities more often than not.

[vangvace 12]

I don't see what the big deal is. Its not like McCarty and Downey are gone from the team. If they are needed, they are around. Lets face it, they're liabilities more often than not.

So is most of the fourth line, the third pair, and goaltenders...

[Aussie_Wing 354]

Thanks Mac for posting, it's great to hear from Holland and I completely agree with him. Playing Downey would leave us as a 3 line team, what for, so he can start a fight for the sake of it? They're most likely going to start fights just because Downey is in the line-up anyway...

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

I think you've forgotten '06-'07, in which things were basically the same.

I meant the last time we actually called our powerplay our enforcer. In 06-07 we tried Norton, didnt work out well And who could forget Lilja's enforcerness at the end of the year. Plus, in the playoffs Maltby-Draper-Cleary were machines out there, and then the soft card was out the window.