The Elephant in the Room

[b.shanafan14 733]

I was thinking tonite that our 3rd line needs to pick it up a lot, Cleary especially. But thats the extent of it.

This is silly.

[Nev 1,085]

To be fair Cleary hasn't been the same since he took that puck to the face - all that weight loss and vision problems in one eye has obviously affected his play. Before that point he was an absolute WARRIOR for this team. I said going into last years playoffs that we needed 18 Dan Clearys.

The fact that you said you have never liked DC and never will makes your whole argument invalid because it shows that you lack reason and objectivity.

[IrishWing19 6]

Blueliner - I will respectfully disagree with you.

As to my observation about Hossa not getting the hat trick. You are right Hossa did pass it up to Cleary - but since when are Dan Cleary and Marion Hossa on the same line? Why else would Hossa be out there? Don't forget - Hockey is the entertainment business - and their is nothing fans love more than fighting and hat tricks. Hossa was on the ice to get the hat trick - and as he is the one that actually got the puck out the zone and up to Cleary - it might have been nice for Cleary to give it back to him.

It was selfish by Cleary - plain and simple - there was no other reason for Hossa to be on the ice with him.

Detroit #1 Fan - I hope you are right and Cleary isn't returning to his old ways.

Hossa was on the ice with Cleary becuase they are quality defensive forwards and the Wings were trying to hold onto a one goal lead. If you actually paid attention to the game after Hossa threw the pass to Cleary, Hossa was never in a position to receive a drop for the hat tirck, he wasn't even in the zone.

In fact, you can see that Hossa stops skating, if you want to give out about any player on that play it should be Hossa, he should have been hustling into a position to defend a possible turnover.

[Cern 0]

Good God you guys, I've heard of biting troll bait before but sometimes this forum is absolutely mind-boggling to witness. And I browse 4chan.

I've watched the highlight clip of Cleary's empty net goal, I don't see Hossa anywhere remotely close to him, let alone begging for the puck. Besides, someone could just as easily argue that Hossa would be selfish for demanding the hat trick on a silver platter in the first place.

All I can say is kudos to this moron for having the dedication not only to actually spend his weekend writing that TL;DR garbage, but also to make a second account just to aritifically pad his argument with MORE TL;DR garbage. Try going outside sometime, maybe?

Edited November 9, 2008 by Cern

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Well, I have been holding back here for a number of weeks, but no more. I am sick and tired of DAN CLEARY. Why is he on the first power play unit with Zetterberg tonight against New Jersey? He single handedly destroyed our 5 on 3 by staying on the ice for 1:15 out of 1:49 with the two man advantage. The guy is the weakest link on the team by far(even worse than Lijia). Why does he ever play with Zetterberg? He drags the guy down and renders any line that he is on ultimately ineffective. I ussually have had a lot of respect for Babcock and the way he has managed this team, but his insistence on playing Cleary on the power play tonight was the last straw. Is Babcock trying to lose? What gives? He has done a terrible job coaching this team this year - regardless if they are 9-2-2. Each game has been way too close and the only real challenge (San Jose) we had - we failed against. I have been holding back but my frustration is beyond belief. The cause of this has obviously been a lack of attention to detail on the defensive side of the game - notably Lilja is just a complete disaster - why we gave up Kyle Quincy and kept him is mind boggling - but mostly by the lack of contribution by a certain forward - DAN CLEARY.

I have been compiling some examples of Cleary's selfish "me first" play for the last 12 games. I challenge others to pay attention to what I have been seeing by keeping an eye out for the following selfish tendencies by Mr. Cleary when he is on the ice.

1st - When the puck is deep in our end - Cleary hangs out at the blue line and expects his teammates to dig the puck out - even when they're out manned 4-3 or 4-2 in the corners. This has occured several times throughout the season - even tonight against New Jersey. This has resulted in several goals - with Cleary standing 60 feet away from the play waiting for his teammates to pay the price.

2nd - A very disturbing trend - though it only happened twice tonight - is when Dan Cleary gets the puck, he never looks to pass off - he is always going to shoot - even from the worst angle. If you watch - other teams have scouted this tendency as well as even tonight New Jersey waited until Cleary got the puck and instead of covering the lanes, they just collapsed on him as he was trying to shoot and got him to cough the puck up.

3rd - The guy can't finish. Tonight was another perfect example - 2 on 1 with Zetterberg. Zetterberg does all the work and feeds it out in front for the open tap in by Cleary - but his stick is NOT on the ice and with one-hand on his stick, he fans on what should have been an easy goal. Stick on the ice - one of the first things they teach you in Mini-Mites and here is a professional who still can't seem to get the concept.

4th - October 24th with 36 seconds left in the 3rd period against Atlanta - Detroit is up 4-3 and Atlanta has pulled their goalie. Marion Hossa, who already has two goals, is put on the ice to go for a hat trick in front of the home crowd. Atlanta is buzzing and Hossa pinches up against Ron Hainese on the boards and jars the puck free from him past the Atlanta defense. Cleary is up ahead cherry-picking as usual, Hossa jumps up and waits for the drop pass so he can bury it for his first hat trick at the JLA - what happens? Cleary ignores Hossa tapping for the puck and skates down and buries it. One of the most selfish acts I have ever seen by a player, and the one that cemented in my mind that Dan Cleary is the everything that a player on the Detroit Red Wings SHOULD NOT BE.

I could go on an on, but it still isn't going to change the fact that he has a no-trade clause in his contract. We are stuck with him and we way over-paid. Second worst move ever by Holland (Uwe Krupp is still the worst). The only thing I hope is that Babcock cuts his ice time to less than 10 minutes a game and keeps him on the 4th line always. Hopefully he won't play him with Fillppula either - he's gonna ruin the guys development with his piss-poor example of what it means to be a team player.

I am fed up with DAN CLEARY!!!!!

Cleary is one of the hardest working Wings on the team, and is capable of switching from a more defensive-forward role to one where he has to focus on offense in a heartbeat. Not a lot of guys on the Wings, other than the superstars, have the capability to do that. He basically has said if he doesn't bust his rear end off, his game suffers greatly. I fail to see how he is being "selfish", and before you respond back to me with something like, "Have you been watching the games?!", yes I have.

[edicius 3,269]

The guy is the weakest link on the team by far(even worse than Lijia).

I stopped reading after this sentence. Lilja has been one of the best defensemen on the roster this season. Did he have a gaffe last night? Sure. But over the course of the season, he's been fantastic, especially considering his line positioning and his pay grade.

I'm seriously beginning to think that all these Lilja bashers haven't really watched a game this season.

[edicius 3,269]

You joined about 15 minutes before you made this post, and five minutes after this thread was created. I sense that you're a secondary account of whomever it was who posted the first anti-Cleary thread. Hi there, 4051RedWings1393.

Sounds like a banning to me.

[shoe 165]

its the visor he is still getting used to

[Guest TheRedWingsFanboy]

You joined about 15 minutes before you made this post, and five minutes after this thread was created. I sense that you're a secondary account of whomever it was who posted the first anti-Cleary thread. Hi there, 4051RedWings1393.

Dan isn't playing great hockey now, right. But everyone slumps, and you try playing with impaired vision and see if it goes OK---alright? Also, he's awesome on the PK.

I joined yesterday because of this topic. I've been a frequent reader of these forums and caught a topic that pointed out my main concerns about Dan Cleary. You can assume I'm that guy all you want, it doesn't affect me at all.

[CrossoverThrash 0]

If im not mistaken CLeary has had an eye problem bothering him all season.

[CopenhagenWing 38]

You joined about 15 minutes before you made this post, and five minutes after this thread was created. I sense that you're a secondary account of whomever it was who posted the first anti-Cleary thread. Hi there, 4051RedWings1393.

Well done, Sir.

[Guest Four]

I've actually thought Lilja has been pretty solid this year for a THIRD pairing defenseman. You can't expect Norris caliber on all lines. And Cleary is trying a new approach, less grinding, more goal scoring. Is it working? No.

I would like to see Cleary go back to grinding and providing energy, but it's not up to us, is it?

[lfd250 1]

Yet another player bashing thread. Perfect. It's hard to ***** about a player at home in front of your computer while drinking beer. Even if you play hockey it's not at the level of the NHL if you did, you wouldn't be here. Yes they are pro's, and yet they have to be perfect every game in order for people not to *****. Agreed they are getting payed A LOT of money to play a game, don't you think they know they are playing "off". It's every right as a fan to ***** at their TV. I yell at mine all the time. But to come in here and complain is pointless. It just starts the back and forth that you are seeing. So to keep the count going.

Cleary

Lebda

McCarty

Osgood

Maltby

Ralfi

Please let me know who it will be after next game so I can add them to the list.

[Guest Crymson]

4th - October 24th with 36 seconds left in the 3rd period against Atlanta - Detroit is up 4-3 and Atlanta has pulled their goalie. Marion Hossa, who already has two goals, is put on the ice to go for a hat trick in front of the home crowd. Atlanta is buzzing and Hossa pinches up against Ron Hainese on the boards and jars the puck free from him past the Atlanta defense. Cleary is up ahead cherry-picking as usual, Hossa jumps up and waits for the drop pass so he can bury it for his first hat trick at the JLA - what happens? Cleary ignores Hossa tapping for the puck and skates down and buries it. One of the most selfish acts I have ever seen by a player, and the one that cemented in my mind that Dan Cleary is the everything that a player on the Detroit Red Wings SHOULD NOT BE.

Cleary's job---like that of everyone else on the team---is to produce, and if Hossa was expecting Cleary to give up a wide-open net in order to pad Hossa's stats, then it would have been Hossa who was being unconscionably selfish (and I seriously doubt that he's like that). If a player of any team has a shot at an empty net, it's his duty to take that shot. The team's job is to win.

A player is selfish for scoring into an wide-open empty net rather than passing it? Are you on crack? Honestly, this comment of yours was mind-boggling.

Edited November 9, 2008 by Crymson

[DYags 0]

Blueliner - I will respectfully disagree with you.

As to my observation about Hossa not getting the hat trick. You are right Hossa did pass it up to Cleary - but since when are Dan Cleary and Marion Hossa on the same line? Why else would Hossa be out there? Don't forget - Hockey is the entertainment business - and their is nothing fans love more than fighting and hat tricks. Hossa was on the ice to get the hat trick - and as he is the one that actually got the puck out the zone and up to Cleary - it might have been nice for Cleary to give it back to him.

It was selfish by Cleary - plain and simple - there was no other reason for Hossa to be on the ice with him.

Detroit #1 Fan - I hope you are right and Cleary isn't returning to his old ways.

This post is completely ignorant

..more so than your other posts

[Wiser19 0]

Well this does it. I have lost all respect for this site.

I am a fan of the Red Wings, I like the players that I like and want to see every member of the Red Wings succeed. However, It is players like Drapper, Maltby, MaCarty and Holmstrom that has brought this team success in the past. Cleary is a great example of what the Red Wings stand for and the work ethic everyone should have.

I hate fans that will rip on a player for a few bad games.

I now hate this site and can not read anymore of this garbage.

[j.hoop 64]

weekly thread of this type

[j.hoop 64]

Well this does it. I have lost all respect for this site.

I am a fan of the Red Wings, I like the players that I like and want to see every member of the Red Wings succeed. However, It is players like Drapper, Maltby, MaCarty and Holmstrom that has brought this team success in the past. Cleary is a great example of what the Red Wings stand for and the work ethic everyone should have.

I hate fans that will rip on a player for a few bad games.

I now hate this site and can not read anymore of this garbage.

i guess if you cant sit back and just laugh at this, we dont need ya here!!

[j.hoop 64]

Rafalski. Stuart. Kronwall. Datsyuk. Holmstrom. All of those players took shots while Hossa was on the ice after he scored his second goal in the Atlanta game. Why aren't you berating those guys for their selfish acts of ignoring Hossa's chance for a hat trick?

Zetterberg also had 2 goals that night. Kronwall, Sammy, and Rafalski all took shots with Z on the ice, while he was sitting on 2 goals for the night. Same story, were they attempting to rob Z of a potential hat trick?

In for a penny, in for a pound, I say... Raf, Kronner, Dats, Homer, Sammy, Stuart... They're all selfish players. After all, it shouldn't be about which TEAM ends up on top at the end of 60 minutes, it's about which player gets the coveted hat trick...

actually hossa had a few chances to take a good shot but instead passed to keep the play going/increase scoring chances. hes very unselfish in play. another reason that i love him here.

[ArcticWing 0]

Yet another player bashing thread. Perfect. It's hard to ***** about a player at home in front of your computer while drinking beer. Even if you play hockey it's not at the level of the NHL if you did, you wouldn't be here. Yes they are pro's, and yet they have to be perfect every game in order for people not to *****. Agreed they are getting payed A LOT of money to play a game, don't you think they know they are playing "off". It's every right as a fan to ***** at their TV. I yell at mine all the time. But to come in here and complain is pointless. It just starts the back and forth that you are seeing. So to keep the count going.

Cleary

Lebda

McCarty

Osgood

Maltby

Ralfi

Sammy

Lilja

whole team

Please let me know who it will be after next game so I can add them to the list.

Small fix

[chrisdetroit 189]

Well, I have been holding back here for a number of weeks, but no more. I am sick and tired of DAN CLEARY. Why is he on the first power play unit with Zetterberg tonight against New Jersey? He single handedly destroyed our 5 on 3 by staying on the ice for 1:15 out of 1:49 with the two man advantage. The guy is the weakest link on the team by far(even worse than Lijia). Why does he ever play with Zetterberg? He drags the guy down and renders any line that he is on ultimately ineffective. I ussually have had a lot of respect for Babcock and the way he has managed this team, but his insistence on playing Cleary on the power play tonight was the last straw. Is Babcock trying to lose? What gives? He has done a terrible job coaching this team this year - regardless if they are 9-2-2. Each game has been way too close and the only real challenge (San Jose) we had - we failed against. I have been holding back but my frustration is beyond belief. The cause of this has obviously been a lack of attention to detail on the defensive side of the game - notably Lilja is just a complete disaster - why we gave up Kyle Quincy and kept him is mind boggling - but mostly by the lack of contribution by a certain forward - DAN CLEARY.

I have been compiling some examples of Cleary's selfish "me first" play for the last 12 games. I challenge others to pay attention to what I have been seeing by keeping an eye out for the following selfish tendencies by Mr. Cleary when he is on the ice.

1st - When the puck is deep in our end - Cleary hangs out at the blue line and expects his teammates to dig the puck out - even when they're out manned 4-3 or 4-2 in the corners. This has occured several times throughout the season - even tonight against New Jersey. This has resulted in several goals - with Cleary standing 60 feet away from the play waiting for his teammates to pay the price.

2nd - A very disturbing trend - though it only happened twice tonight - is when Dan Cleary gets the puck, he never looks to pass off - he is always going to shoot - even from the worst angle. If you watch - other teams have scouted this tendency as well as even tonight New Jersey waited until Cleary got the puck and instead of covering the lanes, they just collapsed on him as he was trying to shoot and got him to cough the puck up.

3rd - The guy can't finish. Tonight was another perfect example - 2 on 1 with Zetterberg. Zetterberg does all the work and feeds it out in front for the open tap in by Cleary - but his stick is NOT on the ice and with one-hand on his stick, he fans on what should have been an easy goal. Stick on the ice - one of the first things they teach you in Mini-Mites and here is a professional who still can't seem to get the concept.

4th - October 24th with 36 seconds left in the 3rd period against Atlanta - Detroit is up 4-3 and Atlanta has pulled their goalie. Marion Hossa, who already has two goals, is put on the ice to go for a hat trick in front of the home crowd. Atlanta is buzzing and Hossa pinches up against Ron Hainese on the boards and jars the puck free from him past the Atlanta defense. Cleary is up ahead cherry-picking as usual, Hossa jumps up and waits for the drop pass so he can bury it for his first hat trick at the JLA - what happens? Cleary ignores Hossa tapping for the puck and skates down and buries it. One of the most selfish acts I have ever seen by a player, and the one that cemented in my mind that Dan Cleary is the everything that a player on the Detroit Red Wings SHOULD NOT BE.

I could go on an on, but it still isn't going to change the fact that he has a no-trade clause in his contract. We are stuck with him and we way over-paid. Second worst move ever by Holland (Uwe Krupp is still the worst). The only thing I hope is that Babcock cuts his ice time to less than 10 minutes a game and keeps him on the 4th line always. Hopefully he won't play him with Fillppula either - he's gonna ruin the guys development with his piss-poor example of what it means to be a team player.

I am fed up with DAN CLEARY!!!!!

You are either being sarcastic or you are a troll.....

[chrisdetroit 189]

Good God you guys, I've heard of biting troll bait before but sometimes this forum is absolutely mind-boggling to witness. And I browse 4chan.

I've watched the highlight clip of Cleary's empty net goal, I don't see Hossa anywhere remotely close to him, let alone begging for the puck. Besides, someone could just as easily argue that Hossa would be selfish for demanding the hat trick on a silver platter in the first place.

All I can say is kudos to this moron for having the dedication not only to actually spend his weekend writing that TL;DR garbage, but also to make a second account just to aritifically pad his argument with MORE TL;DR garbage. Try going outside sometime, maybe?

Well said. I am shocked at the effort put forth to argue with this troll. Dan Cleary sucks?...yea right

[rage 24]

Well this does it. I have lost all respect for this site.

I am a fan of the Red Wings, I like the players that I like and want to see every member of the Red Wings succeed. However, It is players like Drapper, Maltby, MaCarty and Holmstrom that has brought this team success in the past. Cleary is a great example of what the Red Wings stand for and the work ethic everyone should have.

I hate fans that will rip on a player for a few bad games.

I now hate this site and can not read anymore of this garbage.

I wouldn't go that far.

Plus there is an ignore button that might come in handy.

[Yzerfan1999 81]

you are a fool

[Matt 1,048]

All I want to know, redbird2008, is what to actually call you here:

- redbird2008

- TheRedWingsFanboy

- Screenbird

- 4051RedWings1393

- red_wings_girl

- RedinTexas

I would ask you to clarify that for me, but judging by the previous accounts your only goal is to spam the forums blasting various players under a different alias. Have fun finding another forum to pull the little act on -- the run here is over.