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RedWingAbner

Strachan: Detroit may lose team

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Thats a very good point. A lot of people tend to blame a number of factors on the downfall of Detroit, such as foreign competition or the UAW. It is true those factors have a serious effect.

But I think the biggest reason Detroit's automakers have struggled is this perception that American cars are inferior. 60% of new car buyers automatically think Detroit's cars are inferior to Japanese/South Korean imports. In the past, this claim was probably true, but Detroit's cars have pulled even with everyone as far as quality. The problem now is convincing people. Freep.com has a great article on this, check it out -

http://www.freep.com/article/20081109/BUSI...1/1002/BUSINESS

Before anyone thinks I work for these companies, I'll stop you right there. I'm actually a third-year law student who goes to school in Detroit. I want so much for these companies to succeed. I really hope the perception changes. I think cars like the Volt will go a long way to change the image of Detroit's cars. Look at Ford, for example, their quality now is equal with Toyota. They just have to get in the minds of American car buyers.

I seriously doubt they move the arena out to a burb. The Palace is the last one you'll see out in a burb. I think Illitch already has land picked out for the new arena over by Fox Theatre across I-75, I just think they're holding off to wait for the economy to rebound.

Retiree overhead has alot to do with Detroitauto running in the red as well. You have to cut costs somewhere and for most of the 80s and 90s it was in their cars. Couple that to the fact that SUVs and trucks became their bread and butter during that time...

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How did a hockey team ever make it through the Great Depression? Seems the entire Western World is running around with its head cut off.

The teams that survived did so by getting the elite to buy tickets, or already had financially stable owners. Teams in Montreal, Ottawa, St. Louis, Pittsburgh & Philly weren't so lucky.

The Toronto Maple Leafs survived by Conn Smythe making his hockey events into galas of sort (and you could say that never really changed).

The Montreal Canadiens nearly folded in 1935.

Edited by MacK_Attack

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Retiree overhead has alot to do with Detroitauto running in the red as well. You have to cut costs somewhere and for most of the 80s and 90s it was in their cars. Couple that to the fact that SUVs and trucks became their bread and butter during that time...

These are all generalizations. SOME American cars are better or equal in quality to SOME Asia cars. Detroit still makes come garbage cars (Chryslers are the worst) and the Asians make some crap too (stay away from Suzukis) but if you average everything out, more Asian cars are btter than American nameplates. Check out Consumers Reports.

Lastly, many "American" cars are loaded with Chinese made parts. In fact the Detroit 3 have goals to use more imported parts because they are cheaper so before we fall for the "Buy American" slogans, make sure you understand that those "American" companies are hypocritical.

I'd rather by a high quality Honda car made in Ohio that is made by American workers and made with 50% American parts than a piece of crap Chrysler made in Michigan that is also made with only 50% American parts.

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Talk about taking things out of context! That is not what he said. It was more like "there's a ronour that if GM went out of business that the Wings wouldn't last a year because Detroit would be a ghost town"

Did you also work for the Obama campaign?

Actually what the OP said and what you just posted sound pretty similar to me.

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It will never happen.

same has been said about current financial crysis.

yes, it can happen. GM is huge but so were a lot of companies in US or Europe

who either needed government help or partial buy out. this is still far from happening

but it's pretty bold to claim GM will never fold right now when oil prices and crysis

make car sales dive like crazy.

without GM Michigan economy is down and Wings attendance will get low. maybe not

to Nashville level but still low - most certainly for JLA standards.

I can't see Ilitches taking the team out of Detroit but I'm sure they would face

huge financial problems and would need serious consideration as to which businesses

in Detroit to keep

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What they are saying is that if GM closes, a lot of people will lose their jobs, therefore they can't come to the games, therefore there will be more empty seats in the JLA, therefore the Ilitch family has to take it to another place where people can afford to the games.

So guys, when you are looking for your next car, buy American! :colorbounce:

Going bankrupt and going out of business are two totally different things.

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These are all generalizations. SOME American cars are better or equal in quality to SOME Asia cars. Detroit still makes come garbage cars (Chryslers are the worst) and the Asians make some crap too (stay away from Suzukis) but if you average everything out, more Asian cars are btter than American nameplates. Check out Consumers Reports.

Lastly, many "American" cars are loaded with Chinese made parts. In fact the Detroit 3 have goals to use more imported parts because they are cheaper so before we fall for the "Buy American" slogans, make sure you understand that those "American" companies are hypocritical.

I'd rather by a high quality Honda car made in Ohio that is made by American workers and made with 50% American parts than a piece of crap Chrysler made in Michigan that is also made with only 50% American parts.

I will say you also make some good points. Both Asian and American companies make some good cars and some not-so-good cars. But what you're saying is ALSO a horrible generalization. The Japanese may make some of their cars in the US, but they are still engineered in Japan and the profits also go to Japan. So, spare me the cop-out that buying an Accord or Civic made in Ohio is so American. Its great you're buying those cars, they are quality-made and designed cars.

But your generalization that American cars are loaded with Chinese made parts doesn't really examine it all that well. Many of the parts that go in American cars still come from North American suppliers. Some of those American suppliers have plants in China, so some may come from there. But you're never going to convince me that buying a foreign car is somehow keeping more money in the US.

I'm not trying to make excuses here, the American car companies have made some poor quality vehicles in the past and focused on high-profit truck-like vehicles. But in order to maintian profit levels and pay for legacy costs (i.e. health care for retirees, pensions, etc.) the Detroit 3 didn't have much of a choice. They tried to be tough with the UAW in 1998 to cut costs down but the union stood right up and said no because times were good then.

Times aren't so good now, and I don't think we should scapegoat the UAW but they definitely had a hand in this. We ceded the car market to the Japanese and South koreans. The only way we pull even with them is just build good quality cars, and the rest will take care of itself.

Like I said before, the Volt will make a huge impact, most notably because if it is successful GM can transfer that technology into all of their vehicles.

As for quality, look at a Chevy Malibu. Your Consumer Reports raves about it, and they should, its a great car. If you want to buy a Japanese car, then go for it. I don't think its somehow unpatriotic to buy a Toyota or Honda, they make great cars. I just am sick of hearing that Asian car companies build higher quality cars, because thats just not the case anymore. Its a problem of perception, and it will take time to make a difference. I personally think Consumer Reports does still bias for the Japanese simply because they've built good quality for so long, its probably hard for them to realize Detroit 3 quality is just as good. I also think its an issue that the Japanese continue to build upon their quality, so according to their charts the Japanese should be better. I know Chrysler's quality is below Honda, Toyota, GM and Ford according to Consumer Reports. But I've been in a number of new Chrysler vehicles, and I don't see the quality problem. No owners I know of are complaining. Again, this is all an issue of perception. As long as they build quality cars, the perception problem will take care of itself.

Just give Detroit cars a shot, I know some think its cool to drive Japanese cars. But I don't look at cars as status symbols, thats sad if you do. They are a utility. Like Ford says.... Drive One.

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As someone else noted, Detroit is already poor. Most of the fans come from non-GM dominated areas. Isn't it grand that as Michigan is falling apart, Granholm is appointed co-head of Obama's economic transition team? We're in good hands, folks. :|

Michigan's economy is totally out of Granholm's hands. The auto industry has been heading for a nosedive since the days of Engler, and the only people who should've taken note and tried to fix a few things are the guys whose companies are going in the s***ter right now.

Any smart businessman has been aware of the American atuo industries troubles for a long time, and as such, no company is going to invest in a city or state whose entire economy is precariously resting on the future of the auto industry.

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same has been said about current financial crysis.

yes, it can happen. GM is huge but so were a lot of companies in US or Europe

who either needed government help or partial buy out. this is still far from happening

but it's pretty bold to claim GM will never fold right now when oil prices and crysis

make car sales dive like crazy.

without GM Michigan economy is down and Wings attendance will get low. maybe not

to Nashville level but still low - most certainly for JLA standards.

I can't see Ilitches taking the team out of Detroit but I'm sure they would face

huge financial problems and would need serious consideration as to which businesses

in Detroit to keep

Whats funny is, our economy was doing better last year, yet attendance was lower. Our economy worse this year, attendance higher.

Regardless of that, Strachan is an idiot. Theres a reason we have the salary cap now and its so teams like Nashville can thrive. Worse comes to worse and the Wings become a team who gets the better of the salary cap system, as Nashville does now. Whats more, is that IF the Wings weren't able to support themselves, you can be damn sure that the salary cap would be going down with it, which would only help the Wings in terms of viability.

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Whats funny is, our economy was doing better last year, yet attendance was lower. Our economy worse this year, attendance higher.

Regardless of that, Strachan is an idiot. Theres a reason we have the salary cap now and its so teams like Nashville can thrive. Worse comes to worse and the Wings become a team who gets the better of the salary cap system, as Nashville does now. Whats more, is that IF the Wings weren't able to support themselves, you can be damn sure that the salary cap would be going down with it, which would only help the Wings in terms of viability.

That'd be the cup effect...

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wow i really hate ron maclean and strachan there both idiots, if they reall said it that is even if they didnt there still idiots, ron maclean hates the redwings we all know that hes never said anything good about detroit anyways so thats that, im canadian and honestly even i cant stand these canadian broadcasters at times all they do is talk bout the leafs n habs blah blah blah!

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wow i really hate ron maclean and strachan there both idiots, if they reall said it that is even if they didnt there still idiots, ron maclean hates the redwings we all know that hes never said anything good about detroit anyways so thats that, im canadian and honestly even i cant stand these canadian broadcasters at times all they do is talk bout the leafs n habs blah blah blah!

Imagine that, talking about the teams who their audience cheers for.

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wow i really hate ron maclean and strachan there both idiots, if they reall said it that is even if they didnt there still idiots, ron maclean hates the redwings we all know that hes never said anything good about detroit anyways so thats that, im canadian and honestly even i cant stand these canadian broadcasters at times all they do is talk bout the leafs n habs blah blah blah!

Do you also take issue with Mickey Redmond and Ken Daniels talking about the Wings all the time?

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Talk about taking things out of context! That is not what he said. It was more like "there's a ronour that if GM went out of business that the Wings wouldn't last a year because Detroit would be a ghost town"

Did you also work for the Obama campaign?

I'm surprised as an obvious McCain supporter that you know how to use the internet.

Nothing was out of context. Just paraphrased.

Are you Sarah Palin?

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I'm surprised as an obvious McCain supporter that you know how to use the internet.

Nothing was out of context. Just paraphrased.

Are you Sarah Palin?

He may have had some typos, but what in his message implied he was a McCain supporter? That kind of division is exactly what this country does NOT need right now.

And for the record before you label me, I didn't vote for Mccain

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He may have had some typos, but what in his message implied he was a McCain supporter? That kind of division is exactly what this country does NOT need right now.

And for the record before you label me, I didn't vote for Mccain

Did you also work for the Obama campaign?

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I have been watching The Wings since the early to mid 80's and this crap about attendance numbers are hurting the Wings and if things don't change they will fold or blah blah blah, well I remember when no one went to games in the 80's, hell Illich had to raffle off cars to get people to come and yet the team never folded. There is no way in Holy Hell this team is moving out of Michigan or Detroit. I think that Strachan has been hanging aroung Eklund too long again!!

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What is your point?

And no, I didn't vote for Obama either, I voted third party. It scares me we have ignorant people in this country like yourself.

Are you directing this at me??

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The teams that survived did so by getting the elite to buy tickets, or already had financially stable owners. Teams in Montreal, Ottawa, St. Louis, Pittsburgh & Philly weren't so lucky.

The Toronto Maple Leafs survived by Conn Smythe making his hockey events into galas of sort (and you could say that never really changed).

The Montreal Canadiens nearly folded in 1935.

So by smart economics, budgets, and investments. Sounds like we have our guide right there. Let the bad economic teams fail. If the league won't let teams move or fold, let the laws of supply and demand do the job.

Edited by stlwing14

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Do you also take issue with Mickey Redmond and Ken Daniels talking about the Wings all the time?

of corse not ima diehard wings fan, but now ur just twisting my words, cuz mickey n ken are not commentators for cbc or tsn or etc etc... there commentators for the wings so obvioulsy there gonna mainly talk bout our wings, but ron maclean is always tryna put detroit down hes a big leafs fan thats ok but that doesnt mean you always put the wings down esp. when there the defending champs etc

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