# of Hall of Famers this dynasty will produce?

[Nev 1,085]

Prompted by Igors imminent induction into the HHOF, and remembering how during the '02 run commentators would talk about the number of future HOFers on the team (9 IIRC) but I got to thinking about the TOTAL number of HOFers this Wings franchise will have when this beautiful, golden era is all over and done.

Already there

1. Scotty Bowman (yeah, I know he got in before he joined Detroit, but his career here alone is HOF worthy)

2. Mike Ilitch

3. Larry Murphy

4. Slava Fetisov

5. Igor Larionov

Going in awful soon

6. Steve Yzerman

7. Brett Hull

8. Luc Robitaille

9. Dominik Hasek

Absolute locks when they hang the skates up

10. Brendan Shanahan

11. Sergei Fedorov

12. Chris Chelios

13. Nick Lidstrom

Probables

14. Ken Holland (3 cups, 8 straight division titles, 4 Presidents Trophies - I think he'll make it )

Too early to say

15. Pavel Datsyuk - career numbers may go against him as he came late to the NHL, he's 30 and doesn't have 500 points yet. But 2 or 3 more years at this level of play...

16. Henrik Zetterberg - late bloomer, same as Pav. If his back holds up he probly has a slightly better chance than Pav though

17. Chris Osgood - that argument has been done to death here. Only time will tell

18. Mike Babcock - has impressive coaching record at a young age.

Does he count?

19. Paul Coffey

So there you have it, between 14 and 18 HOFers from this era. Staggering - just remember how lucky we are to have this team Wings fans....

Edited November 11, 2008 by Nev

[Hockeytown0001 7,652]

Marian Hossa could be included in the too early to tell list.

Sorry edicius, I don't see an Andreas Lilja in that list

[BigTex 1]

I expect Raffi is a lock as well. And don't forget CuJo.

Just ridiculous.

I'm in awe of the greatness this team has attracted. Franzen sure has shown the potential to be in there someday. I'd like to add Kronwall to that list, but I'm just not sure he'll raise his level high enough. Those awesome hits sure don't hurt his cause though.

[Nev 1,085]

Dunno about Raffi - certainly not a lock. Yeah he has 3 cups, but not great numbers, no major awards and only 1 all-star appearance

CuJo has great numbers, but no major awards and only 3 all-star apps. I'd say he was a weaker case than Ozzie.

Mule and Kronner are a long, long way from being talked about as potential HOFers. A LONG way.

[Slave 31]

coffee played for us as well

[Konnan511 1,736]

Don't forget Adam Oates as well

[thedisappearer 291]

Ewe Krupp

[BeeRYCE 2]

By the time his career his over, Rafalski will have a good chance, I think. I don't see him as a first ballot inductee, but I think eventually.

I hope we can some day talk about Leino.

[Yzermania 156]

Dino should eventually make it.

[Uncle Danny 155]

Forgot about Mark Howe as well, although he admittedly missed the arguable dynasty by a few years. And perhaps Mike Vernon.

Edited November 10, 2008 by Uncle Danny

[C-TownWing 0]

All due respect to Ciccarelli/Coffey, I think you have to be a part of at least one of the Cup teams to be considered "part of the dynasty." They were both on the 1995 conference champs and the great 1995-96 team obviously, but you need Cups to be a dynasty.

The thing Datsyuk and Zetterberg have going for them is that they're quickly building up their trophy cases. Everything from the Stanley Cup, to Lady Byng, to Selke, to Conn Smythe, even to All-Star Game appearances helps their resumes greatly and gives them a HUGE advantage over most with similar or even slightly better stats.

Proof of what I just said: What's the main argument against Ozzie being a HOFer? It's not the numbers, it's that he doesn't have a Vezina, hasn't been to that many ASGs, etc.

[Blueliner 69]

How about Hakan Andersson? I don't know if they put scouts in the Hall, but the man has to be the best scout ever. How can someone find so many good players in the 6th and 7th rounds? He got Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and Ericsson.

[Shaman 713]

McCarty...

..but seriously, I could see Kronner one day, and Hossa, and Raffi are all could bes.

[BigTex 1]

I've heard the arguements both ways. Some people lean towards all time numbers like Wins or Points. 500 goals is used quite a bit as a 'minimum requirements' line.

Then there's the players who are awesome for a relatively short period of time and their career gets cut short (like Cam Neely, he's in the Hall).

It seems with hockey it can go either way, there are examples of each in the Hall.

CuJo is 4th all time in wins, just ahead of Sawchuck. That's probably enough to get him in.

I just looked at Raffi's stats for his career. If he keeps producing with the Wings and gets a few more all-star games he'll have a shot, but as of right now I'll stand corrected. I'm guilty of blatant homer-ism.

[Guest Crymson]

coffee played for us as well

How on earth would an inanimate substance play for us?

[YoungGuns1340 1]

McCarty...

..but seriously, I could see Kronner one day, and Hossa, and Raffi are all could bes.

If Kronwall is ever going to be considered for the hall of fame, he better damn well get on it. January marks his 28th birthday and hes done nothing of consequence thus far that would warrant even a sniff at the HHOF.

[eva unit zero 271]

I expect Raffi is a lock as well. And don't forget CuJo.

Just ridiculous.

I'm in awe of the greatness this team has attracted. Franzen sure has shown the potential to be in there someday. I'd like to add Kronwall to that list, but I'm just not sure he'll raise his level high enough. Those awesome hits sure don't hurt his cause though.

How are you going to mention Franzen and not point out that former 'elite winger' Tomas Sandstrom was on the first line on the 97 team?

Sandstrom has a better chance at the HHOF than Franzen does. Sandstrom was one of the best wingers in the league and was a very good two-way player in his prime in the late 80s and early 90s. Whether he makes the HHOF is hard to say because he was competing directly with Luc Robitaille, Kevin Stevens, Gary Roberts, Brendan Shanahan, etc. but he was the guy right behind that group. Sandstrom also was a two-way winger and played both sides, which detracted from his vote total...as did his nationality at the time.

Franzen is less likely to join that group than Sandstrom is.

Other names who could be mentioned....

Since Ciccarelli was brought up, we can bring up:

Sheppard

Gallant

Ogrodnick

Primeau

And probably others as well.

[Uncle Danny 155]

How are you going to mention Franzen and not point out that former 'elite winger' Tomas Sandstrom was on the first line on the 97 team?

Sandstrom has a better chance at the HHOF than Franzen does. Sandstrom was one of the best wingers in the league and was a very good two-way player in his prime in the late 80s and early 90s. Whether he makes the HHOF is hard to say because he was competing directly with Luc Robitaille, Kevin Stevens, Gary Roberts, Brendan Shanahan, etc. but he was the guy right behind that group. Sandstrom also was a two-way winger and played both sides, which detracted from his vote total...as did his nationality at the time.

Franzen is less likely to join that group than Sandstrom is.

Other names who could be mentioned....

Since Ciccarelli was brought up, we can bring up:

Sheppard

Gallant

Ogrodnick

Primeau

And probably others as well.

I'm interested in hearing your cases for Gallant and Primeau. I'm not being snarky, I just don't see it and would like to hear the counter-point. (For the record, I don't think any of those four get in, but Gerard and Keith interest me most)

[BeeRYCE 2]

How about Mike Babcock? He's fairly young, so when his coaching career is through, not only do I see him a contender, but I see him as one of the better coaches of all time.

[eva unit zero 271]

I'm interested in hearing your cases for Gallant and Primeau. I'm not being snarky, I just don't see it and would like to hear the counter-point. (For the record, I don't think any of those four get in, but Gerard and Keith interest me most)

Gerard Gallant spent more time at the top of his position than Ciccarelli did. More postseason all-star selections (1 second team to no selections), more times in the top five in voting (3 to 2) and Gallant was top 7 four years in a row while Ciccarelli's best streak was two top-fives in a row, although he did place top-seven four times, non-consecutively.

Ciccarelli was a much worse defensive player, however, and never received a Selke vote, unlike Gallant or Primeau.

Primeau received fewer postseason all-star selections, but this is because he was a center he was competing against much tougher competition; evidenced by early appearances in the all star selection ballots while playing out of position as a left winger before he had entered his prime. Primeau was a very solid all-around player and would likely have a consistent 120-130 point player in the 80s while playing strong defense. I would have taken him over Ciccarelli every single day of the week if I had to choose; he was better at everything in hockey except sucker punching. Dino doesn't deserve to get into the hall before Primeau. Not ever.

EDIT:

Please be sure to realize that I brought these names up because Ciccarelli was mentioned, and I feel these are all more deserving names than Ciccarelli.

Edited November 10, 2008 by eva unit zero

[Nev 1,085]

Mike Babcock is a great shout - he's already racking up the coaching milestones, and I agree he will be HOFer in a decade or two.

Oates isn't in the HOF yet (and may never be) and left Detroit before they ever became real good. Sheppard, Gallant etc are just silly.

Coffey is an interesting one - do we regard him as part of the Wings dynasty or not? He was a big part of our young up-and-coming team in the early-mid 90s, yet his departure was the trade that put us over the edge. Furthermore we brutalised him in the '97 finals....not sure how I feel about him.

[eva unit zero 271]

Mike Babcock is a great shout - he's already racking up the coaching milestones, and I agree he will be HOFer in a decade or two.

Oates isn't in the HOF yet (and may never be) and left Detroit before they ever became real good. Sheppard, Gallant etc are just silly.

Coffey is an interesting one - do we regard him as part of the Wings dynasty or not? He was a big part of our young up-and-coming team in the early-mid 90s, yet his departure was the trade that put us over the edge. Furthermore we brutalised him in the '97 finals....not sure how I feel about him.

Sheppard and Gallant outlplayed Ciccarelli in the 80s and early 90s...and this board adamantly supports his candidacy.

[Nev 1,085]

Not me

Either way, talk of Gallant and Sheppard as HOFers is silly.

[daniel1 32]

Not me

Either way, talk of Gallant and Sheppard as HOFers is silly.

I agree; Gallant and Sheppard were good players at the prime of their career but were never considered the best at their position at any time in their careers and were never up for any individual awards either. I consider the Hall to be for GREAT players; not merrely good ones and not many fans/players would attach the word "great" to either Gallant or Sheppard. Primeau had the potential to be great and started to take on that role of "franchise player" with Philly before injuries cut his career short. I wouldn't call his career "great" or Hall worthy either. Coffey may not be considered as part of the Wings dynasty but he definitely deserves to be in the Hall as probably the 2nd best offensive defenseman ever (right behind Orr).

I believe Hank and Pavel will make it someday as both will play together (as Wings!) until they are both close to or over 40. They will end up with at least 3 or 4 Stanley Cups, several All-star selections and Selke trophies, Gretzky trophies (Dats - for assists - trust me it will be created), and hopefully a few Conn Smythe awards too.

[thedisappearer 291]

Sheppard and Gallant outlplayed Ciccarelli in the 80s and early 90s...and this board adamantly supports his candidacy.

*giggles*

No freaking way. I'm not saying Dino gets in, but Ray and Gerry need not be invited to the conversation.

Dino- 600+ goals, almost 600 assists, even 1200 points. Dropped two 50-50-100 seasons.

Gallant- barely played 600 games, scoring 211 goals. had a few 30 goal years

Ray-Ray- 357 goals and 300 assists for 657 points.

Yeah, nice try. Statistic your way outta that box o' stupid. Combined, Dino has better numbers. None of the three have anby hardware of note, so it's all numbers, and Dino broke 600.