49 replies to this topic

[The Mule]

Listen, I hate the Ducks, and I want their prospects to fail as much as the next guy, but to call a player a bust who hasn't even played a full season in the NHL is incredibly asinine.

[Dabura]

I htink Ryan has potential but people saying theyd rather have him than the Mule is rediculous

No, it's not. Like Eva said, Mule is slightly better right now -- but Ryan is much younger, has much greater potential, and will be making much less than Mule come next season. I love Mule and have been a vocal supporter of his through thick and thin. But 10 out of 10 GMs would take Ryan, and for good reason.

[toby91_ca]

The AHL arugument dosen't really work considering Hudler and Haydar have both led the league in points and Kopecky was a great player in the AHL

I think the issue is that you really have no choice but to look at what he's done in the AHL, I mean, that's really his only experience so far. I wouldn't look at that and suggest he's a star because of it, but I think to defend a guy from an argument that he's a bust, it's certainly legitimate.

I also think you need to put things in perspective. Ryan has put up 77pts in 70 AHL games at the age of 19-21, the guys you mentioned were all older when they produced in the AHL. Hudler had his first big year in the AHL the year he turned 22, Kopecky the year he turned 24 and Haydar didn't even step foot on AHL ice until he was 23, his first big year was at the age of 26. Ryan is 21......21, how can anyone be suggesting he's a bust?

[toby91_ca]

buls*** the moment The Mule touched the ice he was scoring

You mean when he was a rookie at the age of 26 and put up 16 pts in 80 games? Or the following year (at 27) when he put up 30 pts? Wait, maybe you're talking about last year (28) when he put up 38 pts?

Let's get a grip on reality here. This year will probably be Franzen's true coming out year when he puts up some serious point totals, but he is 29 (or will be in a couple weeks) and I don't see him being too much better for any significant extended time.

[GordieSid&Ted]

I count One person saying that 'CT'.

I think we'd all take the MULE right now!

Like some of our more esteemed colleagues have already pointed out, Franzen is damned near 30 years old already. He's a very hard working player who is riding a ridiculous hot streak.

But Bobby Ryan is still a top flight prospect. He's barely had time to get his feet wet in the NHL and he's already looking pretty good from the games I have watched. He's getting more confident and using his abilities more this year.

He's big and he can play with a little bit of bite. He's got a true scoring touch and will likely develop into a true power forward.

He's younger, he's cheaper and his potential is still enormously high.

I don't know that I would trade Mule for him right now as Mule brings more to the table this season. But beyond this year, I'd swap him for Ryan in a heartbeat.

[SnipeShow]

if you made this thread in like 3,4,5 years and he still hasn't done "much", then maybe you can call him a bust. He has done the best he can so far with what he's been given, give him some time I am sure he will be a productive top6 forward in years to come. This thread is disgustingly premature.

[Bluedevils_13]

LOL

Bobby Ryan RW 21 6 13 19

[chrisdetroit]

Like some of our more esteemed colleagues have already pointed out, Franzen is damned near 30 years old already. He's a very hard working player who is riding a ridiculous hot streak.

But Bobby Ryan is still a top flight prospect. He's barely had time to get his feet wet in the NHL and he's already looking pretty good from the games I have watched. He's getting more confident and using his abilities more this year.

He's big and he can play with a little bit of bite. He's got a true scoring touch and will likely develop into a true power forward.

He's younger, he's cheaper and his potential is still enormously high.

I don't know that I would trade Mule for him right now as Mule brings more to the table this season. But beyond this year, I'd swap him for Ryan in a heartbeat.

This is like the Hossa versus Mule debate. It is meaningless. You are comparing apples and oranges.

Mule is a 29 year old established player who looks like he is going to be a 35-40 goal scorer and he is going to go for 3-4 mil. This Bobby Ryan guy is a 19-20 year old very talented prospect who hasn't played in the NHL. He is worth maybe a mil a year right now. Sure he has great potential but so di alot of people. Some made it some didn't.

You can't compare the two. An established 35-40 goal scorer who is probably at his peak or a young prospect who might be even better.

10 out of 10 gm's? I don't think so. It depends what the gm's are looking for. Another young prospect on say the Blackhawks isn't going to help. They need established players.

It's never as simple as you make it out to be.

[MacK_Attack]

Mule is a 29 year old established player who looks like he is going to be a 35-40 goal scorer and he is going to go for 3-4 mil.

If he scores 40 goals, you think he's going to go for $3-4 million? Suuuuuuure. Only if his agent has mittens pinned to his coat all year 'round.

Open market, $6 million as a bare minimum, probably $7 million in the end.

[CrossoverThrash]

If he scores 40 goals, you think he's going to go for $3-4 million? Suuuuuuure. Only if his agent has mittens pinned to his coat all year 'round.

Open market, $6 million as a bare minimum, probably $7 million in the end.

if he stays on the wings he will take a discount, its a proven fact

[MacK_Attack]

if he stays on the wings he will take a discount, its a proven fact

Which is why I said he would get that on the open market.

However, I doubt he'll take a 50% reduction to stay. Unlike some guys, he hasn't been making millions for years. This is his one and only chance to hit the jackpot. I don't think he's going to sign for $3.5 million or something.

He's 29, he's never made more than $900,000 and change in a season. He doesn't have the luxury of having millions in the bank like a Hossa or Datsyuk. He's got a chance to cash in in a big way. He won't get another opportunity to get a big contract.

Edited by MacK_Attack, 04 January 2009 - 07:14 PM.

[WingNut 25]

Bobby Ryan is playing really well now that he is actually getting consistent PT. There is no way you can call the guy a bust.

As for Franzen, I think he's gonna stay. The Wings gave him his pro opportunity, he's happy here, the Swedish contingent is obviously a plus and he will have the chance to win each year. I think he'll sign for $4 million per.

[SouthernWingsFan]

Listen, I hate the Ducks, and I want their prospects to fail as much as the next guy, but to call a player a bust who hasn't even played a full season in the NHL is incredibly asinine.

Quoted for truth on the bold part.

[Drake_Marcus]

6 points in 7 games is downright awful. You make the comparison to Cogliano. Cogliano has 10 points in over 20 games (22 or 23) and Ryan has six in seven. Maybe my math is a little rusty, but I'm pretty sure that makes Ryan's production better than Cogliano's.



Ryan was #2 or #3 on pretty well every draft list. He and Jack Johnson flipped-flopped.

Besides, power forwards always take a little longer to develop.

HEY! You take your opinions based on fact and you bundle them up with your logic and remarkable general hockey knowledge and YOU GET THE HELL OUT.

[Drake_Marcus]

Bobby Ryan is playing really well now that he is actually getting consistent PT. There is no way you can call the guy a bust.

As for Franzen, I think he's gonna stay. The Wings gave him his pro opportunity, he's happy here, the Swedish contingent is obviously a plus and he will have the chance to win each year. I think he'll sign for $4 million per.

Look, if Franzen signs for 4 million per it's going to be based on some insane level of job security (like DiPietro job security).

I'll mail Holland a freaking cake if he can sign Franzen for under 5 million.

[MacK_Attack]

Look, if Franzen signs for 4 million per it's going to be based on some insane level of job security (like DiPietro job security).

I'll mail Holland a freaking cake if he can sign Franzen for under 5 million.

I agree. It would have to be a 10 year deal or something with a high salary to start with, which depreciates over the course of the deal.

Franzen simply isn't in a position to take less money. He's got to make off like a bandit while he can. Like I said, this is his only opportunity to do so. Given the potential of a declining cap in two years, he's got to cash in now.

Edited by MacK_Attack, 05 January 2009 - 12:13 AM.

[Drake_Marcus]

I agree. It would have to be a 10 year deal or something with a high salary to start with, which depreciates over the course of the deal.

Franzen simply isn't in a position to take less money. He's got to make off like a bandit while he can. Like I said, this is his only opportunity to do so. Given the potential of a declining cap in two years, he's got to cash in now.

And the worst part is his agent was a complete JACKAL last time they had to sign Franzen. The Wings struggled to get him for $900,000 as a checking forward. I shudder to think what his agent is telling Johan right now.

[puckbags]

I will take the Mule present over Ryan's potential any day of the week. I live for guys who can help us win a cup now. Thats the philosopy of this team...win now and ask questions later. We dont rebuild..we reload. Potential is exactly what it is..potential...no one can look into a crystal ball and tell me Ryan is gonna score 40 goals in this league but right now I can tell you that the Mule will score 35-40 goals this year !!

[toby91_ca]

I will take the Mule present over Ryan's potential any day of the week. I live for guys who can help us win a cup now. Thats the philosopy of this team...win now and ask questions later. We dont rebuild..we reload. Potential is exactly what it is..potential...no one can look into a crystal ball and tell me Ryan is gonna score 40 goals in this league but right now I can tell you that the Mule will score 35-40 goals this year !!

Actually, the Wings' philosophy appears to be somewhat based on paying for potential. Datsyuk wasn't worth the contract at the time of signing, neither was Kronwall, I don't think Filppula is quite worth the $3 million yet either....I could go on

[Aussie_Wing]

Hat trick for Ryan tonight...

Bust.