Avery comments & suspension

[esteef 2,679]

This isn't the Jerry Springer league.

I'm a business major as well, and I see perfectly why the league does not want it's name being related to this sort of crap.

"YO-MAMA-WEEN!"

[Yellowknife Redwing 57]

Ok...but why? I'm a business major and I'm just trying to figure out your reasoning. Will on-the-fence could be hockey fans feminists now refuse to support the league? I don't get it.

It's simply bad for the ethical side of business. The NHL is perhaps the last vestige in professional sports that can - for the most part - be considered a gentleman's league. In the NHL you treat your opponent with respect and the league disciplines the guys who don't follow the rules. Of course, this isn't always the case, but generally speaking things run pretty smooth for a league with this many egos. If Sean Avery is allowed to run around unmuzzled with these types of disparaging remarks, it opens up everyone in the league to run their mouth in the media and it makes the NHL seem extremely bush league.

The example I keep coming back to is: Do any of you guys that disagree with the Avery suspension disagree with Chris Simon being suspended for calling Mike Grier a ******? To me it boils down to exactly the same principle. It's purely a matter of respect and we don't need this kind of s*** ruining our game. Period.

[egroen 384]

I'd ask the other goaltender how serious and abusing these jokes (clearly jokes) were. It's kind of hard to be verbally abusive when both sides are doing it in jest and in the same commercial at that.

Whereas, Avery was clearly not joking, and making a personal attack against another player and his girlfriend. This sort of thing is not the business the NHL does, and it's not the type of attention the league wants (by the suspension) or needs.

I am now actually suprised those ads ever ran. They were clearly signaling each other's mothers out for personal abuse... at least Avery can argue he was not specifically talking about Dion Phaneuf or Elisha Cuthbert. Joking or not, how funny is it to rip on someone's mother, wife or significant other? Especially in public? I have a feeling Ryan Miller's poor mother deserved those attacks much less than Elisha Cuthbert or Rachel Hunter did.

[drwscc 212]

If it was the team suspending him, that would be one thing, but I don't think the league should have stepped in.

Really, his comment wasn't that bad. He didn't use any profanity, and all he really said was that Phaneuf was dating his ex, which is true.

Shoreline, you seem to think that this is going to become some trend in the NHL because Sean Avery did it once. How many people in the league respect Avery, do you think? How many are lining up to emulate him? I've never heard a comment from any players like that before, and probably won't again. He's just not that cool, and he's not a trendsetter.

[Louisville 112]

This isn't the Jerry Springer league.

I'm a business major as well, and I see perfectly why the league does not want it's name being related to this sort of crap.

Yes, but I'm talking Avery in the general sense, not his actions here.

You say the league doesn't want to associate with these things but crazier stuff has happened in the NHL in the past and was handled with less seriousness. On and off the ice. I don't think I need to make a list for you.

Edited December 3, 2008 by Louisville

[Guest Shoreline]

I am now actually suprised those ads ever ran. They were clearly signaling each other's mothers out for personal abuse... at least Avery can argue he was not specifically talking about Dion Phaneuf or Elisha Cuthbert. Joking or not, how funny is it to rip on someone's mother, wife or significant other? Especially in public? I have a feeling Ryan Miller's poor mother deserved those attacks much less than Elisha Cuthbert or Rachel Hunter did.

I don't see anything wrong with the commercial, even though I'd think they stop playing it now because of the Avery issue.

There is no ambiguity of what constitutes verbal abuse. Verbal abuse does not mean consent by both parties. It's purposely disparaging, and meant to harm someone else. Two people making jokes back and forth in a commercial (clearly neither taking the jokes seriously, and even having fun with it) is not even in the slightest bit disparaging or with any intent to be harmful. People are clearly allowed to say most things on the ice, and I would have even said allow it if it were said on the ice. However, spatting off to the media outside of the venue is akin to promoting the NHL and the game of hockey, and this is neither hockey (not played in a locker room) nor the way the NHL wants to promote it's game.

[egroen 384]

It's simply bad for the ethical side of business. The NHL is perhaps the last vestige in professional sports that can - for the most part - be considered a gentleman's league. In the NHL you treat your opponent with respect and the league disciplines the guys who don't follow the rules. Of course, this isn't always the case, but generally speaking things run pretty smooth for a league with this many egos. If Sean Avery is allowed to run around unmuzzled with these types of disparaging remarks, it opens up everyone in the league to run their mouth in the media and it makes the NHL seem extremely bush league.

The example I keep coming back to is: Do any of you guys that disagree with the Avery suspension disagree with Chris Simon being suspended for calling Mike Grier a ******? To me it boils down to exactly the same principle. It's purely a matter of respect and we don't need this kind of s*** ruining our game. Period.

Wasn't it supposedly in response to Grier making fun of his indian heritage, and it was never confirmed that Simon even said it? Yeah, I think that was a dumb suspension, especially for 3 games.

[Louisville 112]

Also, that's why I said he should have been fined. The NHL would still condone his actions in the business side of things.

Edited December 3, 2008 by Louisville

[esteef 2,679]

I don't see anything wrong with the commercial, even though I'd think they stop playing it now because of the Avery issue.

There is no ambiguity of what constitutes verbal abuse. Verbal abuse does not mean consent by both parties. It's purposely disparaging, and meant to harm someone else. Two people making jokes back and forth in a commercial (clearly neither taking the jokes seriously, and even having fun with it) is not even in the slightest bit disparaging or with any intent to be harmful. People are clearly allowed to say most things on the ice, and I would have even said allow it if it were said on the ice. However, spatting off to the media outside of the venue is akin to promoting the NHL and the game of hockey, and this is neither hockey (not played in a locker room) nor the way the NHL wants to promote it's game.

Why would they stop playing the commercial then? I mean if nothing's wrong with it and they were just kidding? How does anyone know for sure Avery wasn't "just kidding" or that he was doing it "in jest"? Verbal sparring before a game is all it is.

esteef

[Guest Shoreline]

Shoreline, you seem to think that this is going to become some trend in the NHL because Sean Avery did it once. How many people in the league respect Avery, do you think? How many are lining up to emulate him? I've never heard a comment from any players like that before, and probably won't again. He's just not that cool, and he's not a trendsetter.

If nothing is done, it does set the stage for more of it. You don't allow something to get completely out of hand before an unwanted action is corrected. That is very simple behavioral psychology. The NHL does not want it, and neither do the players. And as a fan who does not want to see the NHL promoted in the same fashion of the WWE or sleazy, s***ty "talk shows" like Jerry Springer, the integrity of the game and it's image matters more than merely attention itself sans consideration of image.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

I don't see anything wrong with the commercial, even though I'd think they stop playing it now because of the Avery issue.

There is no ambiguity of what constitutes verbal abuse. Verbal abuse does not mean consent by both parties. It's purposely disparaging, and meant to harm someone else. Two people making jokes back and forth in a commercial (clearly neither taking the jokes seriously, and even having fun with it) is not even in the slightest bit disparaging or with any intent to be harmful. People are clearly allowed to say most things on the ice, and I would have even said allow it if it were said on the ice. However, spatting off to the media outside of the venue is akin to promoting the NHL and the game of hockey, and this is neither hockey (not played in a locker room) nor the way the NHL wants to promote it's game.

It's also not even an ad for or made by the NHL.

Though I'm guessing the NHL had to grant some rights because I think the guys were actually wearing their team sweaters.

And as I've said before, this has a lot to do with who said it. If some player without Avery's track record makes that comment, they probably get fined. The league has clearly had enough of him.

[Louisville 112]

It's simply bad for the ethical side of business. The NHL is perhaps the last vestige in professional sports that can - for the most part - be considered a gentleman's league. In the NHL you treat your opponent with respect and the league disciplines the guys who don't follow the rules. Of course, this isn't always the case, but generally speaking things run pretty smooth for a league with this many egos. If Sean Avery is allowed to run around unmuzzled with these types of disparaging remarks, it opens up everyone in the league to run their mouth in the media and it makes the NHL seem extremely bush league.

The example I keep coming back to is: Do any of you guys that disagree with the Avery suspension disagree with Chris Simon being suspended for calling Mike Grier a ******? To me it boils down to exactly the same principle. It's purely a matter of respect and we don't need this kind of s*** ruining our game. Period.

Ok

But no one said that what Sean Avery did was right and he's being punished for it, so what's your point?

You guys are simply stating that Sean is bad for the game and I'm still not convinced.

[Guest Shoreline]

Why would they stop playing the commercial then? I mean if nothing's wrong with it and they were just kidding? How does anyone know for sure Avery wasn't "just kidding" or that he was doing it "in jest"? Verbal sparring before a game is all it is.

Because it's PR. PR is all about political correctness. Political correctness is not exactly about logic.

He wasn't kidding. He was trying to be funny, in a disparaging manner, but he wasn't joking, and it was clearly not consented to by Dion Phaneuf. Let's at least move on from that part.

Edited December 3, 2008 by Shoreline

[esteef 2,679]

Because it's PR. PR is all about political correctness. Political correctness is not exactly about logic.

He wasn't kidding. He was trying to be funny, in a disparaging manner, but he wasn't joking, and it was clearly not consented to by Dion Phaneuf. Let's at least move on from that part.

Not to turn this into a court case or anything, but how do you know he wasn't kidding? Because it's Sean Avery and you don't like him? I mean wasn't he snickering and grinning as he said it? Just sayin'...

esteef

[Gizmo 21]

So pronger got what, 8 days for stomping on someone, and Avery gets suspended indefinitely for running his mouth? really? LAME!!

I'm guessing the "indefinite" suspension is just a procedural term. I assume there'll be a formal hearing to set the actual number of games he'll serve.

[Yellowknife Redwing 57]

My point is that they need to nip this problem as soon as possible with measures that actually mean something. What do you propose? "Oh Mr. Avery, you silly goose, please don't make tactless comments because they hurt our feelings." Somehow I just don't think he'd get the message.

Edited December 3, 2008 by Yellowknife Redwing

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Ok

But no one said that what Sean Avery did was right and he's being punished for it, so what's your point?

You guys are simply stating that Sean is bad for the game and I'm still not convinced.

I'm with you. I think, despite my dislike for him personally, that he's great for hockey.

And you pointed out the bolded part. I disagree with that assumption entirely. Just because Sean Avery runs his mouth, doesn't mean there are 200 more Sean Avery's waiting in the Wings to jump on board.

I think that's a contradictory assumption considering the amount of people who feel hockey is the last virtuous, honorable sport, played by honorable men. So if that's the case, why fret about 1 guy running his mouth leading to everyone running their mouth. Doesn't jive people.

[Guest Shoreline]

Yes, but I'm talking Avery in the general sense, not his actions here.

You say the league doesn't want to associate with these things but crazier stuff has happened in the NHL the past and was handled with less seriousness. On and off the ice. I don't think I need to make a list for you.

You probably should, especially of recent events. The league has been pretty consistent lately with what it will and will not tolerate of both on ice and off-ice antics. It is not much to ask that off the ice (especially in the locker rooms) that their players act with a little professional decorum. This isn't the first time a player has verbally attacked another, and it certainly won't be the last, either. The precedent has to be set and the league, nor do the players as a body, want this league to be associated with that sort of way to "do business".

[slapshot26 0]

I can't believe people make this a big deal...

[Guest Shoreline]

Not to turn this into a court case or anything, but how do you know he wasn't kidding? Because it's Sean Avery and you don't like him? I mean wasn't he snickering and grinning as he said it? Just sayin'...

Because when someone is clearly joking and doesn't mean any harm by it, his own teammates don't get pissed off too. You seem like a smart person, and the offensive nature of this shouldn't need be explained to you.

[esteef 2,679]

Because when someone is clearly joking and doesn't mean any harm by it, his own teammates don't get pissed off too. You seem like a smart person, and the offensive nature of this shouldn't need be explained to you.

Of course it's offensive, he's trying to get under Dion's skin. That's his job, and he's doing it very well it seems, even with certain fans. His teammates were pissed because it was yet another mouth-running instance that caused negative press in their locker room which they had to answer questions about, not because they had a problem with what he actually said. At least Turko and Richards didn't say anything specific to his comments. This punishment is over the top in my opinion, period. Fine him and move on.

esteef

[egroen 384]

Totally off-topic, but I have always not liked the media being in locker rooms. If Avery flashed a camera man, would TSN air it and then write about how outraged they are?

Anyways, ultimately I think he deserved a hefty fine from the NHL and whatever actions his team took against him. An indefinite suspension does not match the crime, IMO. If he had said "ex-girl friend" instead of "sloppy seconds" I am curious what the reaction would have been. Definitely a poor choice of words.

What upsets me most is what I perceive as a continuous watering down of emotions from the NHL.

Edited December 3, 2008 by egroen

[esteef 2,679]

Sean Avery - Evil Genius

http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/video/...videoId=3632996

Wait! He dresses dolls?!!!! f*** HIM!!!!!!!!!!

esteef

[Guest Shoreline]

Of course it's offensive, he's trying to get under Dion's skin. That's his job, and he's doing it very well it seems, even with certain fans. His teammates were pissed because it was yet another mouth-running instance that caused negative press in their locker room which they had to answer questions about, not because they had a problem with what he actually said. At least Turko and Richards didn't say anything specific to his comments. This punishment is over the top in my opinion, period. Fine him and move on.

Actually Turco did comment, and said this is not how the club wants to be perceived.

One can discern between trash talk and personal jabs unrelated to the game. This crossed the line and very few people care to see it in the game. Indeed it's a strong statement but one that must be made.

[Konnan511 1,736]

So Shaq attacks the NBA MVP verbally and he gets nothing. Avery attacks a players g/f verbally and gets suspended indefinitely?

I showed the clip to a few friends and I said isn't this funny, they laughed. Then i told them he has been suspended indefinitely by the NHL and they just looked at me confused. This suspension is ridiculous.