Bettman said Avery's remark offended him as a parent.

[esteef 2,679]

Seeing as the fans are a big part of the game, why can't the commissioner be voted in by fans and owners? The owners can be like congress, and the fans can cast their ballots every say 4 years after several debates.

Of course the fans should meet certain standards to be able to vote. You all can laugh, but I think it would make things interesting and bring the league much needed exposure. The NHL could be known as a fans league which may do wonders

Cause it would turn into a popularity contest, just like our recent presidential elections.

[esteef 2,679]

Exactly! That sort of thing belongs on the ice. I'd go as far as to say it's part of the game. The whole point of trash talk is to get the other guy off his game. Guy to guy I have no problem with it. I actually kind of get it, as well as a girl can, anyway.

There are guys that think that women are conveniently mobile vaginas, and there are men who love and respect their wives/daughters/girlfriends/sisters/grandmas....women in their lives.

If there weren't men who actually loved the women in their lives, trash talk wouldn't work. If the general response to "Hey, a$$hole- I fu(ked your sister" was "Splendid! I've had occasion with her myself! Flexible little thing, isn't she? Those years in gymnastics paid off!" no one would bother. They'd just insult each other's cars.

What makes it work is that it is offensive to the person to whom it is being said. It is intended to be offensive. It is purposely offensive.

And that's fine on the ice, or in the locker room if a guy is trying to impress the other guys.

Time and place. That's the issue here. He chose to degrade women (his exes, and, by extention, any woman who has had more than one man) by insinuating that it makes a woman less worthy to have gone on to another man, whereas he could have as many women as he wanted. That women were property or playthings of which one transferred ownership.

That kind of thing belongs in private conversation, not aired out to the public.

As I said before, the suspension was a bit much. A fine would have done the job. Women would have been placated; believing that the league did not hold to the belief that it was ok to degrade women, and life would have gone on without the uproar. And we wouldn't be having this conversation.

So, it's OK as long as fans hear it on the ice? Either way it's still "heard" right? (Honest question.)

I agree, it's part of the game and it doesn't bother me at all, but slamming Avery in this case begs the question above.

esteef

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Cause it would turn into a popularity contest, just like our recent presidential elections.

anything is better than what we just went through.

[06TJSport 0]

His daughter has already probably been sloppy seconds for someone.....

[Z Winged Dangler 2,082]

bettman's daughter is no doubt already avery's sloppy seconds...so she knows full well what they are. bettman should hang himself and let someone competent run the league.

[Opie 308]

His daughter has already probably been sloppy seconds for someone.....

bettman's daughter is no doubt already avery's sloppy seconds...so she knows full well what they are. bettman should hang himself and let someone competent run the league.

People who talk about a twelve year old in this manner should unplugged their keyboards and let some one competent type their posts!

Look I think this is mess too, but seriously a 12 year old being sloppy seconds? You really thought that was a good post? Did you think it would make people laugh to say a 12 year old has slept with a 28 year old man?

Phenomenal job guys, way to help bring the IQ of this board down!

[uk_redwing 495]

People who talk about a twelve year old in this manner should unplugged their keyboards and let some one competent type their posts!

Look I think this is mess too, but seriously a 12 year old being sloppy seconds? You really thought that was a good post? Did you think it would make people laugh to say a 12 year old has slept with a 28 year old man?

Phenomenal job guys, way to help bring the IQ of this board down!

Its Bettman's daughter. Not like shes a human being.

[Z Winged Dangler 2,082]

exactly what i was thinking when i posted my rude comment...

[55fan 5,133]

So, it's OK as long as fans hear it on the ice? Either way it's still "heard" right? (Honest question.)

I agree, it's part of the game and it doesn't bother me at all, but slamming Avery in this case begs the question above.

esteef

It's a valid question, esteef.

You hear a lot of things on the ice, either at a game or if a mic picks it up. It's on the ice. Fans aren't the intended audience. If you go to or watch a hockey game, you know that if it offends you, you have taken that risk be being in an atmosphere where that sort of thing is likely to be overheard.

Most NHL players have enough class that they aren't going to repeat that stuff when they are being interviewed. Many of them are parents themselves; many are married. They probably don't go home to their wives and kids and ramble on about how many relatives of other players they have been involved with sexually. When they are on camera, even if they don't care about the wives, children, and mothers of others, they do care about their own.

Quite frankly, I've done factory work long enough that very little phases me. Again, time and place. If I ran into a co-worker at Walmart when I was with my mother, I'd expect that he wouldn't begin the conversation with "hey, you butt-ugly fu(k". I have a buddy at work where this is our standard greeting. I wouldn't address him in this manner if I saw him with his child, nor would I say it loudly in a public place even if he was alone.

Bottom line: On the ice it's expected. If you don't want to hear it, sit farther from the ice or keep your TV on mute.

Off the ice, there are standards, and the players know well what they are. Avery didn't just make a random comment that was accidentally picked up. If that was the case, I would be on his side. He purposely went to the camera. He had to know that there would be women and little children listening. He just didn't care.

He showed a complete lack of self-restraint in a situation where self-restraint is expected. Most guys have enough class to know better. Avery knows better, but has no class.

PS: I agree with Opie's last post. Yes, I can't stand Bettman, and I disagree with 99.5% of his decisions, but his daughter is not responsible for the actions of her father, even if he does look like a Star Wars Cantina scene extra with a bad toupee.

Edited December 18, 2008 by 55fan

[HOCKEY MATTERS 167]

bettman's daughter is no doubt already avery's sloppy seconds...so she knows full well what they are. bettman should hang himself and let someone competent run the league.

I need to figure out how to use the block sender function.

[esteef 2,679]

Off the ice, there are standards, and the players know well what they are. Avery didn't just make a random comment that was accidentally picked up. If that was the case, I would be on his side. He purposely went to the camera. He had to know that there would be women and little children listening. He just didn't care.

So next time Avery should feel free to say whatever he wants in the dressing room, just don't acknowledge the reporter and he's all good.

esteef

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

So, it's OK as long as fans hear it on the ice? Either way it's still "heard" right? (Honest question.)

I agree, it's part of the game and it doesn't bother me at all, but slamming Avery in this case begs the question above.

esteef

Not even talking about Avery here but in regards to swearing on the ice/playing surface as opposed to other places.

For me personally, I'm usually a very calm person aware of my surroundings and rarely will lose control of my emotions if it's a normal environment like when I'm at work or just watching TV or eating dinner or whatever, even watching sports I generally am quiet. Sure I might accidently blurb out a curse word in a conversation perhaps, but in normal times I really watch what I say or don't purposefully act/talk like a jackass as to not rub people the wrong way or get them offended.

When I played competitive sport, in the heat of the moment my blood would boil if I messed up something I could control or do better at. That often led to yelling out some explicatives every now and then. That's just the way I was when I messed up. I rarely ever got into the trash talking bit.

In the heat of the moment, you sometimes lose control of your emotions. In the locker room after a game is over or during an interview, unless interviewers are just intentionally yanking your chain over and over again to the point of annoyance, to me that isn't a "heat of the moment" scenario and you need to be a little better aware of saying things that you later might regret, whether you shuold've kept your foot in your mouth or offended people or whatever. It's impossible to be a mind-reader like that all the time of course, but again it's about having some awareness of your surroundings.

Don't know if the atmosphere playing in sports compared to others makes this right or wrong, just my personal experiences I think.

[NC WINGS FAN 5]

well im from kansas city so part of that expansion idea doesnt offend me, cause i would love to have a team here so i dont have to keep driving to st louis to see the wings play

No offense, but are there really that many hockey fans in Kansas City? The St. Louis Blues have a pretty good following, but St. Louis has, from a cultural standpoint, more in common with the north east. Kansas City, from what I understand, is more southern and western.

Hell, there is a part of me that would like to have a team right here in little ole Asheville, North Carolina, but I know it would not be sensible, so I would have to object to it.

Again, I am just stating an opinion as I have been to neither Kansas City or St. Louis. I am just going by what I have read and heard here and there.

[NC WINGS FAN 5]

Bettman looks like a pedophile and that offends me.

Let's put it this way, if I saw him get into a old minivan with no rear side windows, I would be convinced!!!

[T.Low 1,011]

So next time Avery should feel free to say whatever he wants in the dressing room, just don't acknowledge the reporter and he's all good.

esteef

In this case, Avery went out of the lockerroom and asked the reporters if there was a TSN camera around so he could say his little prepared vulgar statement.

Yes, I think its fine to say whatever you want to say on the ice in the context of the game. That is considered "sporting". It would have been funny as hell if Avery said that to Phanueff during a game. Averys teammates would have thought it was awesome.

It was stupid as hell to go out and tell the press to gather round because I have something funny to say. It doesn't at all have the same effect. His teamates think he's an idiot because of it.

I gaurantee the 6 game suspension came in part from the Dallas organization so they could figure out what the hell to do with him. The team didn't want him back after that. Not a single guy in that lockerroom stood up for him after those remarks, they all just shook their heads and said something like, yeah, thats avery alright. They were embarrassed. And let me tell from experience, these are guys that think nothing of going to strip clubs that cost $500 a person to get into where everything is game. These guys have seen it all. But there is a time and a place for everything. Discretion is the better part of valor.

Edited December 19, 2008 by T.Low

[T.Low 1,011]

Its too bad a lot of you can't get past the way Gary Bettman looks, the freaky way he talks, and the way he physically shakes when he tries to talks. I'm sure that if it were up to him he would look like (insert name of your hero here)

He is actually a very intelligent man. You guys don't like him because he brought a hockey team to Nashville, Phoenix, ? I don't get it. He is a lot more respectful to the people he talks to than NBA commish David Stern, thats for sure.

You can debate wether or not he is doing a good job as a comissioner, but people a lot smarter than you and I, and a lot more successful (the team owners) are the ones that really know what he is doing and how well he is doing it.

He made a point about how vulgar the term "sloppy seconds" is. I mean, c'mon the visual that brings up is not what I want to think or hear about when I'm watching hockey with a lady in the room, namely my 70 year old mother.

I'm beginning to wonder if most of you even know what the term means.

Flame away, I can take it, its only the internet.

[esteef 2,679]

I love Bettman!

:beerbuddy:

esteef

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Its too bad a lot of you can't get past the way Gary Bettman looks, the freaky way he talks, and the way he physically shakes when he tries to talks. I'm sure that if it were up to him he would look like (insert name of your hero here)

He is actually a very intelligent man. You guys don't like him because he brought a hockey team to Nashville, Phoenix, ? I don't get it. He is a lot more respectful to the people he talks to than NBA commish David Stern, thats for sure.

You can debate wether or not he is doing a good job as a comissioner, but people a lot smarter than you and I, and a lot more successful (the team owners) are the ones that really know what he is doing and how well he is doing it.

He made a point about how vulgar the term "sloppy seconds" is. I mean, c'mon the visual that brings up is not what I want to think or hear about when I'm watching hockey with a lady in the room, namely my 70 year old mother.

I'm beginning to wonder if most of you even know what the term means.

Flame away, I can take it, its only the internet.

I understand where you are coming from. I rarely join in the Bettman hate club as sometimes people go off the deep end with it. If a majority of owners/business are happy with what the commissioner of the league is doing, the commissioner is doing his job. I don't think we've read anything at all lately that says that a majority of the owners are displeased with Bettman. Bettman has to please them first and foremost. Does that mean us as fans are getting a raw deal? Perhaps, depending on how you look at it. Sure, trying to please your fans is a part of the business, but that isn't the most important thing on Bettman's list. Making sure the owners and businesses are happy and running is his first goal.