What do you think could jumpstart the Wings?

[NomadFromKazoo 42]

Honestly, we're playing like crap yet we're still finding ways to win. If you think about it, this could wear on the entire team easily after a while. We are 3rd in the league and 1st in our division. I honestly think that if they start to loose these close games that they're coming back on in the late stages of games, and maybe drop in the standings and division..

Let's be serious. You're clueless. The Wings are winning but you're not impressed. Have you paid ANY attention at ALL to hockey? We played until frigging J-U-N-E. We're WINNING but it's not good enough for you in DECEMBER!?!?! Have you lost your mind!?!?! We're winning, it doesn't count other then positioning which, hello, we're DOING. It's MONTHS from when it WILL count for real. It's quote un quote "fans" like you who suck. You DESERVE to root for a lousy team because you're a lousy clueless fan.

OK, so let me dumb, dumb, dumb this down for you. Pay attention in February. We're winning, we played to June, it's a long way from when it'll count, and it's STILL not good enough for you? Wow. [/rant]

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Lebda should DEFINITELY be moved. Theres absolutely no reason to keep the guy. Hes not a core player, hes not a key player, and hes not Hossa's BFF. Meech can replace him with ease, and moving Lebda means just enough space to call up Helm, Abdelkader, Downey, Ericsson, etc. when a player or two needs a kick in the butt. And THAT is something we could definitely use.

Outside of that, I wouldn't mind Holland growing a pair and leaving the door open for an interesting trade. I love Holland and all, but its been a while since he pulled off a trade that wasn't of the deadline no-risk variety. And I don't say that in panic mode either, I say that because looking around at the rest of the league, the Wings have very little in terms of up and coming talents up front. I think Holland could do something interesting in trading a guy like Kronwall or Filppula that could help us now and in the future.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Heart, will, determination, hunger, desire, drive.

No, those things are characteristic of a team that already has jump. Whats missing is the motivation to play with those characteristics.

[TheUkrainian 49]

I'd keep Kronwall...Fillpula, maybe, depends on who we get

[VM1138 1,921]

Reunite ZDH. Call up Helm. Make Conks the #1. Spend every damn practice on defense.

ZDH have been reunited. Conks hass been the number 1, and the defense has started to improve while the offense stagnates.

I'm glad I'm not Babcock, because I have no idea what could wake this team up.

[thedisappearer 291]

ZDH have been reunited. Conks hass been the number 1, and the defense has started to improve while the offense stagnates.

I'm glad I'm not Babcock, because I have no idea what could wake this team up.

Haven't watched much Wings, huh?

ZDH gets minimal time together, Conks is #1 because Ozzie has a groin issue, and the offense still looks good.

[Echolalia 2,961]

We can't bring anyone up at this point due to capspace problems, and its unideal to trade anyone away at this point because this is a proven Stanley Cup winning team. We already have all the pieces, its just getting them to work.

What I would do is shuffle the lines now while its early in the season and we aren't that desperate yet, to reward who is playing the hardest, regardless of how talented they are, and punish those who aren't hustling by getting fourth line minutes, or even sitting them, despite only dressing 11 forwards. I'm thinking Zetterberg needs to be sat out for a game, because he's been nonexistant out there for far too long. I know it sounds radical, but something has to give. If we lose, so what. These games aren't about winning. Its about sending a message to the players that aren't playing up to expectation. Filpulla has also been playing without heart. He needs to be sat too, or be put on the fourth line with Draper and Maltby. On defense I would pair Lilja up with Lidstrom for the first defensive line (assuming Lids is back). Lilja has been playing some of the best hockey of his life right now. Rafalski will be with Chelios on the second line, and Kronwall and Stuart will take up the remaining time. It'll probably be a disaster on the ice, but a message will be sent, and if they do lose, it will put the Wings in a position in the standings to start playing with desperation. I'll also be keeping Conklin in net. He's done all he's expected to do as a backup. Even when Osgood gets healthy; "nope, Osgood. I don't trust you in net. Prove to me in practice you more capable than Conklin to be our last line of defense".

It sounds crazy, but now is the time to do something while we have the room to do so; not assume that things will suddenly change in the playoffs, or start doing something to motivate them a week before playoffs.

[XxGoWingsxX 0]

Let's be serious. You're clueless. The Wings are winning but you're not impressed. Have you paid ANY attention at ALL to hockey? We played until frigging J-U-N-E. We're WINNING but it's not good enough for you in DECEMBER!?!?! Have you lost your mind!?!?! We're winning, it doesn't count other then positioning which, hello, we're DOING. It's MONTHS from when it WILL count for real. It's quote un quote "fans" like you who suck. You DESERVE to root for a lousy team because you're a lousy clueless fan.

OK, so let me dumb, dumb, dumb this down for you. Pay attention in February. We're winning, we played to June, it's a long way from when it'll count, and it's STILL not good enough for you? Wow. [/rant]

Ok dude, it seems i'm not the only one seeing something wrong. I never said it wasn't good enough. I was implying that they look like crap while winning and winning isn't even everything. I'd rather seem them play the way they can, and lose then to play like crap for 45 minutes and then in the last 15 min playing desperately and scrambling to get back in. I'd rather see them play good for 60 minutes, than play desperate for 15. Don't like my thoughts? Or my opinions? Or anyone elses thoughts or opinions in this thread? Don't read it, and ignore it. Theres no reason for you to be an immature little kid about this.

So, i say to you Mr high and mighty. Step off your pedastol and either join in the conversation, or turn around and walk away, because there are a number of people who posted in here besides me who obviously agree with me to some degree. So why come in here and start drama with those of us who wish to talk about this? C'mon dude you can be better than that...I just know it!

Also, i've been watching HOCKEY since i was 3...22 years to be exact. I played hockey for 14 years, until an ankle injury and surgery stopped me from ever skating again. The wings are my fav team, i live near detroit..but by NO MEANS, are the wings the only team i watch and follow...and compared to some of even the lesser teams...we look horrible, winning or not. So put that in your peace pipe, smoke it and help keep the peace around here. I'm not even trying to be a dick here...i'm just saying, you cannot call ME clueless when apparently theres quite a few other people who are in agreeing to an extent, and Up until you showed up in here, nobody has said ONE thing about not agreeing...so to call me clueless, is to call all of them clueless as well. From what I've seen of the people posting in this thread (which btw is the number 1 thread right now) they are all pretty damn knowledgeable hockey "fans" as you so arrogantly put it.

Anyways, let us talk, and if you disagree...fine...but theres no need to be so completely rude and pompous about it. Thanks

Edited December 29, 2008 by XxGoWingsxX

[Wingnut in WA 86]

There is someone that could help, and that man's name is Darren Helm.

[TheOwl 77]

If anything theirs too much line juggling. Pick the lines, and stick with them, no matter what. Maybe we'll get some chemistry between these guys. No one will trade anything for Osgood, Maltby or Draper. Probably couldn't even get a 4th round draft pick for any of them. Holland should just bit the bullet, trade Flippula, send one of the D men and Kopetsky to the minors, and bring up some Griffins guys. At least they'll have the cap space to move people up and down from the minors, and a few million for next seasons cap. Flippula is the most over-payed red wing, expect maybe Rafalski, but you can't get rid of him easily. Hudler, Cleary and Sammy are all pulling their weight finally, but some guys are just enjoying the show.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

If anything theirs too much line juggling. Pick the lines, and stick with them, no matter what. Maybe we'll get some chemistry between these guys. No one will trade anything for Osgood, Maltby or Draper. Probably couldn't even get a 4th round draft pick for any of them. Holland should just bit the bullet, trade Flippula, send one of the D men and Kopetsky to the minors, and bring up some Griffins guys. At least they'll have the cap space to move people up and down from the minors, and a few million for next seasons cap. Flippula is the most over-payed red wing, expect maybe Rafalski, but you can't get rid of him easily. Hudler, Cleary and Sammy are all pulling their weight finally, but some guys are just enjoying the show.

Scotty Bowman was notorious for juggling lines like crazy. He won plenty of Cups in his career, including a few with Detroit. I understand what you are saying in that 1st sentence, but line juggling is one of the last things I would be concerned about.

[HOCKEY MATTERS 167]

how bout jumper cables?

[Drake_Marcus 890]

A car battery connected across each of their nipples. That should give them a jump.

[chrisdetroit 189]

Here's what I think will jumpstrat the Wings - A home and home series against Chicago who is currently only 4 points behind the Wings and have two games in hand.

It will be just like the San Jose game. The Wings will be excited about these games and I expect very good performances on Tuesday and on New Years Day.

This is exactly the right timing.

[chrisdetroit 189]

At this point, I have no idea. They have won a lot of the games they've deserved to, but they've lost some, too; they've been embarrassed by teams they could normally beat; they've blown a three-goal lead in the third against Pittsburgh; they've played a few good 60-minute games; they've juggled lines and occasionally defensive pairings; they've had their captain and best player get hurt and had their weakness without him exposed; and yet they can't manage to settle and find consistency.

Whatever it is that's going to unify this team and get them back to playing Red Wings Hockey, I haven't got a clue what it is. I would like to hope that maybe if they lose the Winter Classic to a young and hungry Chicago team then they might wake up, but who knows?

Glass is half empty huh?

Lids has missed, let's see, a total of 1 game and 2 periods. The partial game he missed we lost by 1 goal and the full game he missed we lost in OT and it was the 2nd of a back to back with travel in between.

To say we have been exposed without Lids at this point is ridiculous.

As far as getting embarassed by teams that we should have beat, well that's another ridiculous statement. "Getting embarased" in my book means losing by more than 1 or 2 goals. We have lost 7 games in regulation.

Toronto 3-2

San Jose 4-2

Montreal 3-1

Boston 4-1

Dallas 3-1

Nashville 3-2

Colorado 3-2

Of those 7 games, only 4 were by more than 1 goal

San Jose, Montreal, Boston, Dallas.

And of those 4 only the Dallas game was one that we definitely should have won. Montreal, San Jose and Boston are 3 of the best teams in the league so they were certainly not games that we "should have won"

That leaves only Dallas that was by more than a 1 goal margin and guess what? The other goal was an empty net goal.

So exactly which games are you refering to when you say that we have been embarassed by teams that we would normally beat?

[scotzman 29]

First off, someone mentioned Lebda contributing nothing to this team... ummm, he is not the best d-man in the league, but the guy has speed and routinely creates scoring chances when he carries into the zone.

We can all see that Maltby & Kopecky are not cutting it... unfortunately I don't think that Holland is ready to rock the boat by sending them down. I think that decision may have to happen eventually, but what do any of us know.

I think bringing up Helm & Abdelkader would put a jump into the step of the entire team. I'll say this again, our 4th line is horrible. They create no emotion for the team. They spark nothing. 4th line grinders need to do that.

Send Malts and Mac down and bring up Helm & Abdelkader...

[dallas27 7]

We can all see that Maltby & Kopecky are not cutting it... unfortunately I don't think that Holland is ready to rock the boat by sending them down. I think that decision may have to happen eventually, but what do any of us know

Kopecky is the closest thing to a physical forward we have, as bad as that is, I don't think you can send him down. He's at least willing to go into a corner and throw a hit on a regular basis, something that can't be said for any other forward. I honestly have no idea what they pay Maltby for anymore beside killing a penalty here and there.

Winning in Chicago at Wrigley field for a hyped-up Winter Classic on national television could jumpstart them.

[ComradeWasabi 109]

Glass is half empty huh?

Lids has missed, let's see, a total of 1 game and 2 periods. The partial game he missed we lost by 1 goal and the full game he missed we lost in OT and it was the 2nd of a back to back with travel in between.

To say we have been exposed without Lids at this point is ridiculous.

Regardless of the score, watching how the Wings play without Nick, there is a significant difference. Particularly in the first period against Colorado the tape-to-tape neutral zone passes from the defence weren't quite as crisp as normal. I will concede though that "weakness exposed" is probably strong terminology.

As far as getting embarassed by teams that we should have beat, well that's another ridiculous statement. "Getting embarased" in my book means losing by more than 1 or 2 goals. We have lost 7 games in regulation.

Toronto 3-2

San Jose 4-2

Montreal 3-1

Boston 4-1

Dallas 3-1

Nashville 3-2

Colorado 3-2

Of those 7 games, only 4 were by more than 1 goal

San Jose, Montreal, Boston, Dallas.

And of those 4 only the Dallas game was one that we definitely should have won. Montreal, San Jose and Boston are 3 of the best teams in the league so they were certainly not games that we "should have won"

That leaves only Dallas that was by more than a 1 goal margin and guess what? The other goal was an empty net goal.

So exactly which games are you refering to when you say that we have been embarassed by teams that we would normally beat?

Our definitions of embarrassed are different. Losing by a one goal margin to a team that the Wings should beat by more than one is, in my opinion, embarrassing. Toronto, Colorado (twice), Dallas, they should have won all of those games if they had played a good game. They've also lost most of the games against the top teams in the league; San Jose, Boston, Montreal. I think most would agree that Detroit is, on paper, a better team than those three (though that is open to a wide debate, depending on whose colours you wear) and yet they only managed to win one of those games, against a tired San Jose team. The style in which they lost those three big games is important, too; all three of the other teams straight up outworked and outplayed us each time.

[The Secret 304]

Red Bull

[Moni 0]

We need better defense that is all there is too it. Not to rain on the Lidstrom parade but the guy can't do it all. With him out its only going to start slipping unless the dmen we have step up their game. I like Kronwall, Stuart, and Lilja (Lidstrom is a no brainer but he's out right now). Raffy is over paid, Lebda has been benched once already, Chelios needs to retire - love the guy but he's not the same from years past - he'd make on hell of a defense coach and it would free up cap space.

[chrisdetroit 189]

Regardless of the score, watching how the Wings play without Nick, there is a significant difference. Particularly in the first period against Colorado the tape-to-tape neutral zone passes from the defence weren't quite as crisp as normal. I will concede though that "weakness exposed" is probably strong terminology.

Our definitions of embarrassed are different. Losing by a one goal margin to a team that the Wings should beat by more than one is, in my opinion, embarrassing. Toronto, Colorado (twice), Dallas, they should have won all of those games if they had played a good game. They've also lost most of the games against the top teams in the league; San Jose, Boston, Montreal. I think most would agree that Detroit is, on paper, a better team than those three (though that is open to a wide debate, depending on whose colours you wear) and yet they only managed to win one of those games, against a tired San Jose team. The style in which they lost those three big games is important, too; all three of the other teams straight up outworked and outplayed us each time.

I guess we do have different definitions. Losing by 1 goal to a team we should have beat isn't embarssing in my book. It's disappointing but that's hockey.

As far as losing to top teams you point out that we beat a tired San Jose team ignoring that it was actually a 6-0 blow-out but then forget to mention that we were tired when we lost to them in San Jose.

You should be more objective. If you aren't going to give us credit for beating a tired team, then you shouldn't give our opponents a free pass for beating us when we are tired.

As far as top teams here how we have done

Montreal 0-1 first game back from long West Coast trip

Boston 0-1 we were on back to back with travel in between

San Jose 1-1 each played tired once

Aneheim 1-0-1 they were tired, we were not

Pittsburgh 0-0-1 Wings dominated for 50 minutes before collapsing

Chicago 2-0

This is the general concenses of the better teams and we are a combined 4-3-2 which isn't great but it is horrible either.

On paper, we should finish the year 82-0 or at least 78-0 if you think that San Jose is better than us. But hockey isn't played on paper. The Wings need to pick up their GAA and their PK but overall they are not doing badly and have the 3rd best record in the league.

The sky isn't falling...

[chrisdetroit 189]

Kopecky is the closest thing to a physical forward we have, as bad as that is, I don't think you can send him down. He's at least willing to go into a corner and throw a hit on a regular basis, something that can't be said for any other forward. I honestly have no idea what they pay Maltby for anymore beside killing a penalty here and there.

Winning in Chicago at Wrigley field for a hyped-up Winter Classic on national television could jumpstart them.

a bit of an exaggeration don't you think....

[wingslionstigers 12]

Our definitions of embarrassed are different. Losing by a one goal margin to a team that the Wings should beat by more than one is, in my opinion, embarrassing. Toronto, Colorado (twice), Dallas, they should have won all of those games if they had played a good game. They've also lost most of the games against the top teams in the league; San Jose, Boston, Montreal. I think most would agree that Detroit is, on paper, a better team than those three (though that is open to a wide debate, depending on whose colours you wear) and yet they only managed to win one of those games, against a tired San Jose team. The style in which they lost those three big games is important, too; all three of the other teams straight up outworked and outplayed us each time.

Just shut the hell up. Why dont you guy cry somewhere else? Are you kidding me right now? You are a real example of a sissy boy.

Watch the god dam games enjoy them let the Wings organization deal with the team. No matter how many ******* swimming pools you fill up with your god damn tears your not going to make a difference. Guy grow up itll be ok trust me.

[wingslionstigers 12]

These guys just won a Stanley Cup as nice as another one sounds it probably really isnt to appealing to them at this point. Some of these guys have played 300-1000 NHL games thats alot of games. They already met there goals last year. On top of that they all know what kind of team they have and they know no matter what they do there going to get into the playoffs.

No matter what you do this teams not going to play like anyone expects until maybe 15 or so games left to go in the season. The only other thing that could pull this team together is if they started to loose alot of games. The playoffs we are going to see everything this team has so what are your worried about? Seriously?

[servo 15]

Honestly, we're playing like crap yet we're still finding ways to win. If you think about it, this could wear on the entire team easily after a while. We are 3rd in the league and 1st in our division. I honestly think that if they start to loose these close games that they're coming back on in the late stages of games, and maybe drop in the standings and division...the wings might be enticed to do some things different and work their butts harder. Think about it they're playing half assed and still winning games so there isn't a panic for them to work much harder yet. I mean, if you could do something half assed, yet still be rewarded for it, you'd do it right? Well...if they started to lose these games they're winning by a hair, they might wake up and realize they're NOT playing to their potential. The wings are also used to being up near the top of the standings, and are probably quite comfortable there. If they dropped a couple spots, it might make them uneasy and wake something inside them up. My opinions here, please let me know what u think might kick them in the arses.

"What do you think could jumpstart the Wings?, I'll tell you mine, you tell me yours"

You didn't tell us yours, losing isn't a motivator; anyway if we traded Osgood for Turco that would work, but once he comes around so will the team. These falling behind in the first 5 minutes has to stop! I don't know how many more of these games (as exciting as they are to watch them come back) I can stand.

Chicago handing us our asses in front of everyone should help jumpstart them. Even thou we have lost the last 2 games, we have generally played well barring the 1st period of Saturday's game.

Edited December 29, 2008 by servo