Jump to content


Photo
* * - - - 6 votes

Ovechkin CHEAP SHOT


  • Please log in to reply
166 replies to this topic

#41 Shoreline

Shoreline

    Panzerfaust

  • HoF Booster
  • 12,817 posts
  • Location:Brampton, ON

Posted 02 January 2009 - 03:44 AM

It's "undisputable" guys, thread over. I don't think differing opinions here will be tolerated.

#42 CrossoverThrash

CrossoverThrash

    Mine alien force overpower you!

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,951 posts
  • Location:Wisconsin (Formerly Troy, MI)

Posted 02 January 2009 - 03:47 AM

QUOTE (RedStormRising @ January 2, 2009 - 04:44AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So every time a player who is checked gets injured, the one giving the hit should be suspended because they are 'careless'?

if they follow the player into the hit, don't let up, and lead with an elbow, yes

#43 CrossoverThrash

CrossoverThrash

    Mine alien force overpower you!

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,951 posts
  • Location:Wisconsin (Formerly Troy, MI)

Posted 02 January 2009 - 03:54 AM

QUOTE (Shoreline @ January 2, 2009 - 04:44AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It's "undisputable" guys, thread over. I don't think differing opinions here will be tolerated.

i've said it was disputable, im just giving my opinion.
The way i see it is:
huard already has his back turned 15 ft form the boards, ovechkin following.

huard has no idea where ovechkin comes from because of this, he truns inside towards the corner, he is already facing the boards form 15 ft out
ovechkins elbow clearly makes contact wiht the head

imo it looks similar to other hits which have been suspendable
i don;t htink it was intentional but they never are
if you don't think so, fine, ill still present my argument, i think everyone know my opinion by now, form your own, its called a forum
I woudl like to see people critiqe me now that my opinion is set, this is my honest view of it, i really just dont see how people don't mind the elbow or the injury it caused.
part of this is huards fault, but he didn't willingly turn hit back to try to get injured

#44 Reds4Life

Reds4Life

    Red Wings

  • Gold Booster
  • 2,640 posts
  • Location:Czech republic

Posted 02 January 2009 - 03:56 AM

Heward made a mistake, exposed himself, Ovechkin hit him (clean hit) and Howard got injured. No big deal, there will be no suspension for Ovechkin, and rightfully so.

Edited by Reds4Life, 02 January 2009 - 03:57 AM.


#45 Shoreline

Shoreline

    Panzerfaust

  • HoF Booster
  • 12,817 posts
  • Location:Brampton, ON

Posted 02 January 2009 - 04:01 AM

QUOTE (CrossoverThrash @ January 2, 2009 - 12:54AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
i've said it was disputable, im just giving my opinion.

QUOTE (CrossoverThrash @ January 2, 2009 - 12:41AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
they are undisputable



QUOTE
The way i see it is:
huard already has his back turned 15 ft form the boards, ovechkin following.

huard has no idea where ovechkin comes from because of this, he truns inside towards the corner, he is already facing the boards form 15 ft out
ovechkins elbow clearly makes contact wiht the head

imo it looks similar to other hits which have been suspendable
i don;t htink it was intentional but they never are
if you don't think so, fine, ill still present my argument, i think everyone know my opinion by now, form your own, its called a forum
I woudl like to see people critiqe me now that my opinion is set, this is my honest view of it, i really just dont see how people don't mind the elbow or the injury it caused.
part of this is huards fault, but he didn't willingly turn hit back to try to get injured

These screencaps don't help your argument at all. Heward is bent over, so it can't be a high elbow, because he's bent over, and it can't be a hit from behind because he's clearly on his side to the boards. Your argument here is awful.

#46 AtomicPunk

AtomicPunk

    Nobody rules these streets at night like me...

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,104 posts
  • Location:Home of the Wings

Posted 02 January 2009 - 04:02 AM

This is in no way a cheap shot, and I hereby deem the rest of the thread bullsh*t.

Edited by AtomicPunk, 02 January 2009 - 04:09 AM.

I am a victim of the science age...the underground.

Feed the Swede! - RETIRED 2012

#47 GSBrooks13

GSBrooks13

    1st Line All-Star

  • Bronze Booster
  • 1,095 posts
  • Location:Halifax, NS

Posted 02 January 2009 - 04:27 AM

Wow.. what a dirty hit.. I know its early but we should probably nominate this for most misleading thread title of the year.. How can it be a dirty hit when it was hardly a hit at all.. seriously... do you think that if Ovechkin had made such a dirty hit and injured one of tampa's players he would have been standing over there with all of Tampa's players checking on Heward?..

You really want to compare this with the Van Ryn hit?... because it is undisputabley the exact same circumstances?.. well how about comparing it to the 5 or 6 other times in about every game where people get nudged from behind and hit the boards?.. This hit is just a case of s*** Happens..

If you want to suspend Ovechkin for being careless then maybe we should also suspend Heward for being careless and going in like that?..

"Push the dirt off your jersey then go for the cup or the trophy or the ring, champion no matter what."


#48 Detroit # 1 Fan

Detroit # 1 Fan

    Truculence.

  • HoF Booster
  • 19,079 posts
  • Location:St John's

Posted 02 January 2009 - 04:48 AM

Too bad it had to happen to my buddy Heward. Hopefully he gets better!

#NOMOREKINDL


#49 Chelichic

Chelichic

    4th Line Grinder

  • Gold Booster
  • 300 posts
  • Location:Ann Arbor, MI

Posted 02 January 2009 - 05:31 AM

QUOTE (Yzermania @ January 2, 2009 - 03:19AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
wow, what a misleading title. That is the farthest thing from what you would call a cheap shot. He was just playing hockey and there was a bad connection, whether it's the guy going into the boards in an awkward position or ovechkin just hitting in a bad form, it was really nothing more than an unfornunate outcome...



I agree, ive watched the video a few times now and it looks like an accident. In sports people are going to have accidents. Granted hockey players learn how to take, give, and avoid hits, no one is perfect. As for the idea of no hitting in hockey... its the same as telling a football player he cant hit anyone... its part of the game and people get hurt from time to time. I do hope he is okay and back on the ice in no time.



#50 RedStormRising

RedStormRising

    1st Line Sniper

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 780 posts
  • Location:St. Paul

Posted 02 January 2009 - 06:09 AM

QUOTE (CrossoverThrash @ January 2, 2009 - 04:47AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
if they follow the player into the hit, don't let up, and lead with an elbow, yes


You must follow someone to hit them, if you let up YOU will get hurt, and you lead with shoulders and elbows with follow more times than not...

This is unfortunately part of the game.
I bet you were one calling for the suspension of Torrey Mitchell of San Jose last year when he sent Kurtis Foster crashing into the boards and breaking his leg in the process, while they were both chasing the puck.

Edited by RedStormRising, 02 January 2009 - 06:09 AM.


#51 RedStormRising

RedStormRising

    1st Line Sniper

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 780 posts
  • Location:St. Paul

Posted 02 January 2009 - 06:18 AM

QUOTE (CrossoverThrash @ January 2, 2009 - 04:54AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
ovechkins elbow clearly makes contact wiht the head


To me, it looks like AO's forearm hits him in the back then his elbow might make contact as he turns and pulls away to go after the puck, all in one motion. But Heward is hunched over and off balance near the boards so it may look worse because of that.

Edited by RedStormRising, 02 January 2009 - 06:20 AM.


#52 lomekian

lomekian

    3rd Line Checker

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 477 posts
  • Location:London - England (not Ontario)

Posted 02 January 2009 - 06:27 AM

Not a particualrly dirty hit....potentially risky yes, but we see far worse on a regular basis. Also if AO is say 6 "3 or 6 "4 and Heward is a smaller guy also bening down the elbow wlll appear high. However...I' ve seen far worse in most games, its just the circumstances were unfortunate. Its not even comperable with the Van Ryn hit, as he is leaning head down some distance away from the boards, and the run up, speed and angle of kostopolous's hit was always going to cream him into the boards. With the hit on heward, players get hit in that position all the time, and normally being that close to the boards actually limits the opportunity for injury.

Dirty? NO
Reckless? Possibly
Suspension? No Way

At worst its a 2 min minor, and I'm not even 100% convinced that you could call that. If this was a suspension, then Chris pronger would play about 5 games a season!

#53 stormboy

stormboy

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,161 posts

Posted 02 January 2009 - 07:32 AM

QUOTE (RedStormRising @ January 2, 2009 - 06:18AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
To me, it looks like AO's forearm hits him in the back then his elbow might make contact as he turns and pulls away to go after the puck, all in one motion. But Heward is hunched over and off balance near the boards so it may look worse because of that.


this is pretty much how i saw it...it looked like his arm slid up heward's back because heward was hunched over. if this had been called a 2min minor i wouldn't think it was an awful call, but i don't think it's suspendable.

OP, i respect your opinion and agree that no player should be given clemency for a bad hit just because they're superstars.

however, a few points:

one, whether a player was injured or not should, in most cases, have little bearing on whether a suspension is doled out. obviously, a lot of potentially suspendable hits are let go because the player isn't injured, but just because a player is hurt on the play does not automatically mean the offending player should be suspended. that pronger hit on homer in the 07 playoffs comes to mind. homer came back later in the game, but because of the nature of the hit and its obvious intention, pronger got suspended (though i still think one game was too light).

two, i don't think that this hit is that comparable to the other hit you posted. again, this is obviously not quantifiable, so we likely won't agree on this. however, in my viewing of the AO hit, the capitals player is coming in to the right of the lightning player. at the last second, heward turns slightly to his right which, i believe, made the contact much worse than it would have otherwise been. in the other video you posted, it seems to me that the monteal player has a much better idea of where the toronto player is going to be and chooses to run at him hard anyway. the AO hit seemed much more bang-bang, in which ovechkin really had no time to make an adjustment to heward's movement.

three, it seems to me that the hit wasn't really that hard of a hit. it looked like AO was going with about as much speed as intensity as the average hit. just seemed like heward's head hit the boards at an awkward angle. there are probably a dozen hits a game that could end up like this but aren't at quite the right angle to cause injury. the kostopolous hit, on the other hand, is of a variety that is rarely seen, both because players are more intentional about protecting themselves in those particularly dangerous situations, and players are less likely to rail someone who is in that vulnerable position.

kostopolous clearly made a decision to make a dangerous hit. OV made an average check when both players were twisting and turning along the boards and his elbow accidentally went up heward's back and heward hit the boards at an unfortunate angle. whether the player was injured or not is immaterial (in terms of suspension). remember when jason williams got knocked out a few years ago by an oilers player? the hit was clean; willi just wasn't protecting himself. the oiler should not have been (and was not) suspended just because williams was hurt. it is the job of the league to, as best they can, determine the intent of the player and gauge whether or not they willingly put another player in serious risk.

it is my opinion that alex did not do anything reckless, and that it was an unfortunate play in a physical and sometimes dangerous game. he should not be suspended.

all the best to heward.

edit: grammar. also: i like AO but am not a deeply committed fan of his. i don't keep up on his stats or watch his highlights. he has never been and never will be my computer's desktop image (unless he wins a cup with the wings).

Edited by stormboy, 02 January 2009 - 07:36 AM.

________________________________

go wings.

#54 Guest_nutz2u (Guest)

Guest_nutz2u (Guest)
  • Guests

Posted 02 January 2009 - 08:11 AM

I must be looking at a different replay than most of you cuz the one I see shows a hit from behind, Now I like Ovie, but ya gotta admit it was a boarding penalty. Many a player has gone to the box for boarding penalties less obvious than that.

#55 Opie

Opie

    Legend

  • HoF Booster
  • 7,420 posts
  • Location:The only Henniker on Earth!

Posted 02 January 2009 - 08:56 AM

Hit from behind!

Like was already stated, Heward/Huard/Howard/Howard the Duck (and whatever other way you can screw his name up) was facing the boards from a good 10 feet out. Ovechkin followed him straight into the boards and never let up.

Dirty, hmmm depends, was the Randy Jones Patrice Bergereon hit dirty, if you think yes than this hit was definitely dirty as that hit was the epitome of turning at the last second into a hit. And this guy didn't turn for a full 2 seconds.

Suspendable, without a doubt, this is a suspendable hit, if Heward hits AO, the NHL is in complete uproar and this guy gets a minimum of 10.

Risky, 100% without a doubt a dumb hit, he had ample time to slow up and body him or use his stick. That play happens dozens of times a night, the difference is most defenders will body the guy and pinch him to the wall to free the puck up or to tie up at least the one guy.

In my opinion AO was over zealous and wanted to make a great hit/play to help his team that had just given up two goals to make it a game.

But without a doubt that is a suspension worthy hit in my mind. Now after looking at the name on the back of the Jersey will the league suspend or fine him, I doubt it.

"The more I know about people - the better I like my dog." - Mark Twain

"A wise man once told me, ‘Don’t argue with fools. Cause people from a distance can’t tell who is who'." Jay Z, Takeover

"When I was looking for a captain, I wanted a guy with the Red Wings crest tattooed on his chest," said former Detroit coach Jacques Demers, who named Yzerman captain in 1986. "Steve Yzerman was that guy."

“Told him if he wasn't ultra-competitive he couldn't come here. If he didn't bring it every day he couldn't come here, because he was going to hate it if he didn't, dislike the coach and dislike playing here.
“It's real straightforward. If you don't do it right, you're not happy here." Babcock

#56 b.shanafan14

b.shanafan14

    One good Swede deserves another!

  • Silver Booster
  • 2,872 posts
  • Location:Upper Peninsula, Michigan

Posted 02 January 2009 - 09:12 AM

QUOTE (CrossoverThrash @ January 2, 2009 - 03:53AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Kostopoulos hit for reference:

Kostopolous got 3 games


When I first saw the Ovechkin hit I couldn't believe the guy got hurt as bad as he did, it didn't look bad at all. And even so, Ovechkin looked really bummed about it, especially since the two had played together according to TSN. Ovechkin could have definitely done worse, like others have said, just unfortunate.

But comparing it the Kostopolous hit?! That is a huge stretch...

#57 RedArmy

RedArmy

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Silver Booster
  • 2,255 posts
  • Location:New York City

Posted 02 January 2009 - 09:34 AM

yea this wasn't a cheap shot at all, not sure why there is such a big deal made about it? Understandbly the guy got hurt, but this wasn't intentional at all... Kostopolous hit doesn't even compare with 2 arms against the back of the guy to fly face first into the boards... How does Ovechkin hit compare to something like that? silly argument....

#58 ComradeWasabi

ComradeWasabi

    the abdelgator

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,461 posts

Posted 02 January 2009 - 09:47 AM

The AO hit might have been worth a boarding call, and MAYBE a one-game suspension because of incidental elbow-neck contact (that is a scary thought).

But this is NOTHING like the Kostopolous-Van Ryn hit. Look how far out Van Ryn was, look how hard Kostopolous ran him into the boards, note that Ovechkin didn't have his elbow aimed right at Heward's head while Kostopolous clearly put his hands up and shoved Van Ryn face first into the glass. There is no comparison between these hits.
QUOTE (thedisappearer @ December 13, 2008 - 10:13AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So, we're dogpiling on the goalie sammy Hudler the defense the refs league bias against us coaching now? Ok.

Babcock is lazy and he sucks!

#59 Opie

Opie

    Legend

  • HoF Booster
  • 7,420 posts
  • Location:The only Henniker on Earth!

Posted 02 January 2009 - 09:58 AM

Let me ask those of you defending the hit this:



IF, this hit is Chris Pronger on Datsyuk or Ian Laperriere on Lids does it change your opinion of the hit?

There were people last year that though Lappys hit on Lids was dirty and that was nothing compared to this.

"The more I know about people - the better I like my dog." - Mark Twain

"A wise man once told me, ‘Don’t argue with fools. Cause people from a distance can’t tell who is who'." Jay Z, Takeover

"When I was looking for a captain, I wanted a guy with the Red Wings crest tattooed on his chest," said former Detroit coach Jacques Demers, who named Yzerman captain in 1986. "Steve Yzerman was that guy."

“Told him if he wasn't ultra-competitive he couldn't come here. If he didn't bring it every day he couldn't come here, because he was going to hate it if he didn't, dislike the coach and dislike playing here.
“It's real straightforward. If you don't do it right, you're not happy here." Babcock

#60 spydrwebb

spydrwebb

    Hockeytown West

  • Gold Booster
  • 1,159 posts
  • Location:Grand Rapids, MI

Posted 02 January 2009 - 10:01 AM

this hit was not cheap, regardless of who hit who... unfortunate, that much i'll agree.
IPB Image

*live, love, learn... leave a legend*





Similar Topics Collapse

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users