135 replies to this topic

[esteef]

esteef, if it weren't 100% completely true that plenty of Wings fans would love it if a Wing player did what Crosby did, then the idea of "homers" wouldn't exist at all. You can delude yourself into thinking differently all you want.

As for the bolded part. You act like it's your fellow LGWers who are responsible for all the Crosby hype. LGWers by and large do not post Crosby threads to show "his greatness". Crosby threads pretty much are only started by haters. It's getting old and makes LGW look as bad as those schmucks over on the Vancouver board.

If it were a Wing, plenty here would love it. You're kidding yourself to think otherwise.

And as for it being a ***** move. Before I come to that conclusion I'd have to know the facts. Did they talk about fighting each other? Did they agree to fight? There are many plausible reasons for why the fight unfolded like it did. To merely assume you know what happened in the seconds leading up to the fight is pretty arrogant, even for me.

Let's not argue assumptions, cause that's all the first part is. And I "assume" there would be a lot less folks here cheering on a Wings player for completely jumping someone for (apparently) nothing than you think. But again, even if everyone here cheered it (which I doubt) it still wouldn't make the act any less *****-like. (Of course, if someone squashes a player's head against the boards then all bets are off, but it didn't "appear" that that was the case here. )

No one's saying LGWers are at fault for Crosby love, but that doesn't mean anytime Golden Boy screws up (which seems to be a lot lately) we can't enjoy pointing it out and poking fun at the league's perfect little lap dog. If people don't want to hear it, then don't read it (what a concept!)

The "facts" are, when the puck was dropped, McLean went for the puck and Crosby jumped on his back. THOSE are the facts. I don't fault Sid for fighting, just the manner in which he went about it (Tootoo style). Hell, I would even be fine with it if he were trying to get a leg up on Brashear or Boogey or someone like that, THAT I can understand, but McLean? C'mon man! Man-up and do it right, anything else is just *****, (you know, like jumping a guy already tangled up and punching him in the nuts!)

esteef

[The Secret]

Guys who talk about fighting right before a faceoff drop them immediately all the time. Sometimes they'll take a step back and square up, sometimes they just start swinging. Personally, if I were Crosby and Mcclean agreed to go, I would assume he was ready and by God, i'd have done everything I could to get the first shot in. Happens all the time.

Sounds like what my old man taught me. If its going to go down forget the dancing.. swing first, swing hard and don't stop swinging until the fighting is done. The guy is not a fighter at all and that looked to be the philosophy he attempted to follow.

[Doggy]

This thread should be renamed "Retarded post of the year attempts". You Crosby-haters implode into smouldering craters of idiocy when you start talking about your dream boy, Sid.

[russianswede919293]

My only problem with it was that he left his visor on.

[redwing_sparty]

i just think its lame that cindy fights to try to prove he's tough. did he even get a punch off or did he just grab his jersey and pull it back and forth across his neck to give him a rug burn. it was a cheep shot, and all he did was pull the other guy down.
dats has been throwing some checks around lately, but i dont need to see him fight to show hes good.
here's the reality, if crosby tried to fight someone good, or straight up face to face with out surprising the guy, he would get absolutely hammered. but let him keep trying cause if he keeps exposing himself, someone will get him, and good.

[GordieSid&Ted]

i just think its lame that cindy fights to try to prove he's tough. did he even get a punch off or did he just grab his jersey and pull it back and forth across his neck to give him a rug burn. it was a cheep shot, and all he did was pull the other guy down.
dats has been throwing some checks around lately, but i dont need to see him fight to show hes good.
here's the reality, if crosby tried to fight someone good, or straight up face to face with out surprising the guy, he would get absolutely hammered. but let him keep trying cause if he keeps exposing himself, someone will get him, and good.

Your post is like the textbook example of how Crosby will never be able to win with some people and how some folks are devoid of objectivity when it comes to Crosby.

He fought Andrew Ference straight up and he didn't get hammered. In fact he bloodied Ference.

Does Crosby have to fight to show you he's good? I completely don't understand the Datsyuk comment or how it relates at all.

It was supposed to be a fight...apparently, only 1 guy didn't seem prepared.

[GordieSid&Ted]

Let's not argue assumptions, cause that's all the first part is. And I "assume" there would be a lot less folks here cheering on a Wings player for completely jumping someone for (apparently) nothing than you think. But again, even if everyone here cheered it (which I doubt) it still wouldn't make the act any less *****-like. (Of course, if someone squashes a player's head against the boards then all bets are off, but it didn't "appear" that that was the case here. )

No one's saying LGWers are at fault for Crosby love, but that doesn't mean anytime Golden Boy screws up (which seems to be a lot lately) we can't enjoy pointing it out and poking fun at the league's perfect little lap dog. If people don't want to hear it, then don't read it (what a concept!)

The "facts" are, when the puck was dropped, McLean went for the puck and Crosby jumped on his back. THOSE are the facts. I don't fault Sid for fighting, just the manner in which he went about it (Tootoo style). Hell, I would even be fine with it if he were trying to get a leg up on Brashear or Boogey or someone like that, THAT I can understand, but McLean? C'mon man! Man-up and do it right, anything else is just *****, (you know, like jumping a guy already tangled up and punching him in the nuts!)

esteef

esteef, what do you think about this scenario. First off, Crosby says he and McClean agreed to fight prior to the puck drop. McClean says he thought he heard something but wasn't sure? So what you have is he said, she said.

In your opinion, would it be plausible that the following occurred, in light of the score and all.

Pens getting burned at home, Crosby wants to send message.
Crosby asks McCLean to go, thinks he hears him oblige.
Puck drops and Crosby drops gloves goes for the fight.

For as many people here who claim to like hockey fights, who claim to have seen their fair share of them, I am flabbergasted at the "outrage" over what Crosby did. Calls of "he jumped him" etc...

I have seen plenty of fights over the years where 1 guy tosses the gloves and the other doesn't. Call it mixed signals, a change of heart, trying to goad the other guy into a penalty, whatever.

Sometimes the guy who drops the mits first starts swinging, sometimes he doesn't. Sometimes the guy who drops the mits first, upon realizing the other guy isn't dancing, just holds on and manhandles the other guy.

In my opinion, that's what it looked like here. I can't explain what was said (if anything) pre face off. I don't know if Sid asked him to fight or if McClean didn't hear him or what. All I know is what my eyes told me and they tell me that something was going down between the 2 of them and when the puck dropped only Crosby was ready. And upon seeing McClean not fighting back Crosby, aside from some girly like weak jabs really didn't swing and just tugged and pulled down on McClean.

Crosby could be full of s***. But IMO that's just as plausible as the scenario I just laid out.

I've seen a guy drop the gloves and start wailing on an unprepared other guy. If people think that's what this was akin to, then I question their knowledge of hockey fights in general.

Without being in that faceoff dot to hear any conversation, we don't know what happened with any degree of certainty. For all we know McClean goaded him into a penalty by agreeing to fight and then not going thru with it. Can anybody say with 100% certainty that that isn't plausible? I can't say one way or the other. Looks to me like a fight that was supposed to happen yet had only 1 willing participant so the other guy just ragdolled his opponent. No real harm done.

[GMRwings1983]

It's obvious that McLean was afraid to hurt Crosby, because he didn't want the league to suspend him for 50 games for punching Gary Bettman's lover in the face.

No reason something like that should turn into 5 pages of debate.

[SouthernWingsFan]

Fight? What fight? Crosby did not fight, he is not man enough to face other player in a fair fight. But you are right, at least this time he did not hit his balls.



Fortunately Pav and Hank aren't little ******* like Crosby. That was not a fight, it was an attack on a player who had no idea Crosby wants to "fight".

It never cease to amaze me how some people try to make it sound like Crosby is THE hero when in fact he is the loser and totally pathetic person.

Avery got 6 game suspension for "sloppy seconds", I wonder how many games would a player get if he'd do exactly what Crosby did. But of course Cindy is the face of the NHL, the saviour and bla bla bla so no suspension for attacking another player.

And it never ceases to amaze me either how so many people go so far off the deep end with the Crosby disliking obsession, like you just did. I get talking hockey, I get talking about Crosby, but the quantity of times he is talked about on here when he's not a Red Wing or we aren't playing him/his team, as well as the quantity of how he is talked about with the vitol and hate thrown his way, is getting more disturbing and more insane in here as the days go by.

One time I got a response regarding this that because I don't live in a hockey market, I don't get exposed to Crosby much. While I may not live in a hockey market, I still see a commercial here and there on ESPN or NBC or NHL Network or whatever regarding Crosby, I sometimes see him as the main story on sports sites in the NHL sections. Hell, I was in Pensacola, a small beach town in NW Florida on vacation in July and saw a replica jersey of his jersey on a display at a sports bar one night, and NW Florida is definitely not a hockey mecca.

And I certainly get exposure to a fair share of the disliking obsession towards him in here, much more than necessary. Right now, it is just as bad, if not worse, than whenever stuff in here gets nuts about goaltending or toughness or enforcer talk.

I certainly get my fair share of Crosby exposure good or bad when it comes to him just like plenty of other hockey fans.

The exposure he gets doesn't bother me whatsoever and Crosby himself doesn't really bug me, but the infatuation regarding him by a fair amount of people in here is really, really disturbing. I certainly don't lose sleep over it, and it might have been fun to rip on him to start to me, but after seeing and reading it about 600 times a week now, it's pretty stale now and much more disturbing like I've state a few times.

The only reason why I wouldn't mind not seeing/hearing Sidney Crosby's name again is so people on here can end their obsession on him. Not because of the general attention he gets by media and sports sites and such, just because people are so tripped up on him on this site. That is the only reason why I wouldn't mind not hearing/seeing his name, and that's sad. And it is also sad that I have to justify myself multiple times by saying that I neither like/dislike Crosby just to sound like I am not a Crosby worshipper or think he is a "hero" when I think people get carried away with this stuff.

Now, am I getting a little carried away with this myself or being unfair some? Maybe, please tell me if I am. However I wouldn't be stating something about how silly I think this gets sometimes if I didn't think people were getting carried away on the other end.

Haha! I'm back! (Had to go be Dad for a while). My point is this whole idea of "If player X was a Red Wing while committing ridiculous act Y then everyone would love him" is not only far from the truth, it's completely irrelevant. I'm sure there are plenty of Pitt fans that LOVE what Crosby did, does that make it any less cheap or *****-like? Even if the whole world cheered him on as he did it, would that make it any better? It was a ***** move only magnified by the fact that he is the league's Chosen One that we all must idolize as the physical embodiment of everything great about the NHL. And everytime somebody here starts ragging on "Player Y" they get the "if he was a Red Wing you'd love it" BS.

Just pointing out the absurdity of that point cause it always seems to rear it's ugly head in discussions such as these. If it wasn't you who said it, it would've certainly been someone else very shortly.

Better?
esteef

Fair enough, and if a Wing player did what Crosby did in this specific instance, and only in this specific instance we are referring to, it wouldn't make it any better. But in the heat of the moment right when it happens, I still stand by what I say that you'll see some Wings fans here/there that would've been happy that somebody dropped the gloves to some degree, even if it is like that and this same situation. GS&T already explains this in much greater detail.

I would be extremely embarrassed if anyone on the wings did this, or acted like Crosby in any way.

Like Crosby? You sound like you are implying that Crosby is the only person in professional sports that ever complains or whines or cheap shots. I've seen plenty of players throw a tirade and go nutty chirping and complaining. I remember seeing Steve Yzerman, The Captain, our beloved captain, storm out of the penalty box and just yap and compalin and rant away in a game at Nashville once on TV. Plenty of people bicker and complain on the ice or playing surface when they get frustrated or things don't go there way, not just Crosby alone.

[Doc Holiday]

Crosby jumped a guy unaware. Unless you know for a fact he acknowledged your offer you don't jump on a guy like that.

Of course because it is Crosby he is either completely innocent or should be suspended for life.

[Drake_Marcus]

No one in hockey would get a suspension for rag dolling a guy like Crosby did. Half of you claim this wasn't even a fight, and this guy says his actions are suspendable? Are you nuts?

You can hate Crosby and think he isn't the best player in the league - there is nothing wrong with that, but how can you call him a loser and a totally pathetic person?

Its like arguing with a bunch of 13 year olds on this site now.

Take a look at the Semin fight - then you can start calling people pathetic.

I think you've just proven that you can't appreciate an epic drum solo when you see it.

Semin is the next Neil Pert.

[esteef]

esteef, what do you think about this scenario. First off, Crosby says he and McClean agreed to fight prior to the puck drop. McClean says he thought he heard something but wasn't sure? So what you have is he said, she said.

In your opinion, would it be plausible that the following occurred, in light of the score and all.

Pens getting burned at home, Crosby wants to send message.
Crosby asks McCLean to go, thinks he hears him oblige.
Puck drops and Crosby drops gloves goes for the fight.

For as many people here who claim to like hockey fights, who claim to have seen their fair share of them, I am flabbergasted at the "outrage" over what Crosby did. Calls of "he jumped him" etc...

I have seen plenty of fights over the years where 1 guy tosses the gloves and the other doesn't. Call it mixed signals, a change of heart, trying to goad the other guy into a penalty, whatever.

Sometimes the guy who drops the mits first starts swinging, sometimes he doesn't. Sometimes the guy who drops the mits first, upon realizing the other guy isn't dancing, just holds on and manhandles the other guy.

In my opinion, that's what it looked like here. I can't explain what was said (if anything) pre face off. I don't know if Sid asked him to fight or if McClean didn't hear him or what. All I know is what my eyes told me and they tell me that something was going down between the 2 of them and when the puck dropped only Crosby was ready. And upon seeing McClean not fighting back Crosby, aside from some girly like weak jabs really didn't swing and just tugged and pulled down on McClean.

Crosby could be full of s***. But IMO that's just as plausible as the scenario I just laid out.

I've seen a guy drop the gloves and start wailing on an unprepared other guy. If people think that's what this was akin to, then I question their knowledge of hockey fights in general.

Without being in that faceoff dot to hear any conversation, we don't know what happened with any degree of certainty. For all we know McClean goaded him into a penalty by agreeing to fight and then not going thru with it. Can anybody say with 100% certainty that that isn't plausible? I can't say one way or the other. Looks to me like a fight that was supposed to happen yet had only 1 willing participant so the other guy just ragdolled his opponent. No real harm done.

If Crosby just mans up proper, we don't all have to read your ridiculously long posts. Add his ball punching of a guy already locked up with someone to your "plausible scenario" and how much of a benefit of the doubt do you give him then?

Crosby's a great puck handling, goal scoring *****. I absolutely give him points for not wailing away on McClean when he was down though, but isn't it "plausible" he could've just realized he jumped a guy and was in ass-saving mode from potential retaliation?

esteef

[GordieSid&Ted]

If Crosby just mans up proper, we don't all have to read your ridiculously long posts. Add his ball punching of a guy already locked up with someone to your "plausible scenario" and how much of a benefit of the doubt do you give him then?

Crosby's a great puck handling, goal scoring *****. I absolutely give him points for not wailing away on McClean when he was down though, but isn't it "plausible" he could've just realized he jumped a guy and was in ass-saving mode from potential retaliation?

esteef

Your scenario is absolutely plausible. But as we agree there's no way to know, at least i'm the one open minded enough to give the guy the benefit of the doubt versus others who've simply played judge and jury and decided for themselves what happened. That would include you.

[pjgj13]

Pretty much.

Pathetic showing by Crosby... He did manage to cut him somehow with those punches though.

Long fingernails!!

[redwings1914]

He jumps him after the faceoff, real classy. Just the crap you would expect out a little prissy b**ch he is....

[micah]

Why are Red Wings fans calling players on other teams "*****" and "*****"? I don't get it. We have plenty of ******* and ******* on our team. How often have we seem Maltby and Chelios shoot their mouths off and refuse to fight? That's *****. If you're gonna chirp, you should be ready to back it up. Let's work on purging the *****-moves from the squad we like before we point out the ***** moves from other squads, especially when their "*****" is one of the best players in the league who has every reason not to fight, unlike Maltby or Chelios.

Edited by micah, 06 January 2009 - 11:05 AM.

[esteef]

Your scenario is absolutely plausible. But as we agree there's no way to know, at least i'm the one open minded enough to give the guy the benefit of the doubt versus others who've simply played judge and jury and decided for themselves what happened. That would include you.

Hey, video doesn't lie. But please don't lump me into the category of people who just bash Crosby regardless (pause for laughter), he is a good offensive hockey player, of that there is no doubt. I just get tired of having his mug jammed onto my tv screen ad nauseum everytime anything hockey is on. I guess I just don't like what he represents more than him personally, you know that whole media and league darling kind of crap. That's all, so I like taking jabs at him at every opportunity just to balance out all the pole-smoking he gets everywhere else (except on this board of course )

Cheers!
esteef

[GordieSid&Ted]

Hey, video doesn't lie. But please don't lump me into the category of people who just bash Crosby regardless (pause for laughter), he is a good offensive hockey player, of that there is no doubt. I just get tired of having his mug jammed onto my tv screen ad nauseum everytime anything hockey is on. I guess I just don't like what he represents more than him personally, you know that whole media and league darling kind of crap. That's all, so I like taking jabs at him at every opportunity just to balance out all the pole-smoking he gets everywhere else (except on this board of course )

Cheers!
esteef

I understand that. We get alot of Crosby commercials, no doubt. But I don't blame him for that. He's been in the spotlight since he was a kid, tearing up records. He came in with more hype than any player in recent memory. And frankly, he lived up to it. He may not be Gretzky, but I don't think he's overhyped b/c people started to compare him to Wayne. Again, not Sid's fault.

The league has to pick a champion and face. So they picked him. Why not? Again, not his fault. I don't think that means he has to be a Lady Byng finalist every year. And I don't think a guy who up to this season had had 1 career fight, in which he did very well, should be considered in the likes with Tootoo for 2 incidents that personally, I don't think are as clear cut as people would like.

You mention the ball shots on Valabik. My guess, and I said this before, is that in the melee he was just swinging at any piece of Valabik he could. Just my opinion. And yes, the video shows you he jumped McClean, but the point was there was a discussion prior to the puck drop. McClean admits there was a discussion. So it becomes he said, she said as to whether they were set to go or not. Given that, I am giving him the benefit of the doubt in regards to jumping him. In my mind, if i'm intent on jumping a guy, i'm going to follow through by trying to unload punches on him, not ragdoll him around.

People want to see somebody literally "jump" someone. Look up the clip between the Wings and Islanders a few years back when Eric Cairns goes flying into the pile and starts teeing off on Bootland who is tied up with another guy. Cairns is just throwing right hands at the back of Booter's head. That's jumping an unsuspecting guy.

Again though, when it comes to Crosby, mountains are often made from mole hills when he does something.

But whatever, imo this is a nothing situation and I probably shouldn't have even bothered to look at the thread in the first place. I could pretty much guess how it was going to go.
In the end, we're stuck with Crosby as the league's poster child. I don't have a problem with it because i'm a Wings fan and a hockey fan. I don't have to watch Crosby play and apparently i'm in the minority of viewers as I don't sit through Crosby commercials. I get up to piss or grab a snack or, and this is going to knock some folks socks off..............I change thef****** channel when the commercials start. What a concept!

I'm not railing on you esteef, just making some general comments.

[GordieSid&Ted]

Why are Red Wings fans calling players on other teams "*****" and "*****"? I don't get it. We have plenty of ******* and ******* on our team. How often have we seem Maltby and Chelios shoot their mouths off and refuse to fight? That's *****. If you're gonna chirp, you should be ready to back it up. Let's work on purging the *****-moves from the squad we like before we point out the ***** moves from other squads, especially when their "*****" is one of the best players in the league who has every reason not to fight, unlike Maltby or Chelios.

I agree with you on a personal level. Objectively speaking though, stuff happens in games. I think people spend too much time focusing on Sid's commercials and the attention he gets via advertising and such. And they conveniently forget that he probably takes more on ice abuse than any player in the league. Even if it could be proven he was deliberately trying to punch Valabik in the nuts and he deliberated jumped a guy in Mcclean who had no idea there was going to be a fight. I don't see it as being a big deal. And no, just b/c he's the poster child I don't think that makes any difference. He's a hockey player and in the end, these two dust ups were so trivial and meaningless they don't merit discussion IMO. Remember Mclennan? Remember Iginla? So much nasty s*** goes down over the course of every season, for people to harp on these 2 incidents, which admittedly there is some grey area regarding them, I find to be a waste of people's time.

Now if he goes McSorely on somebody, then that's something to talk about. But this? Whatever.

[esteef]

I understand that. We get alot of Crosby commercials, no doubt. But I don't blame him for that.
Again though, when it comes to Crosby, mountains are often made from mole hills when he does something.

But whatever, imo this is a nothing situation and I probably shouldn't have even bothered to look at the thread in the first place. I could pretty much guess how it was going to go.

Agree, absolutely not his fault, but that still doesn't make the constant media fawning any easier to stomach though. There's just too many good players in the league for Crosby to dominate headlines all the time like he does but whatever. (f*** You NHL Media! )

If anything, it speaks volumes to his on-ice play that all the "haters" have are minor incidents such as these to "bash" him about, as opposed to him sucking it up on the ice actually playing hockey. Overall, I know he's a good kid, but I'm still gonna take my jabs at him when the opportunity arises. Gotta keep him from getting too big of a head right?

esteef