Osgood Eyeing Sawchuk

[LeftWinger 4,961]

...ya, ya another Osgood thread! LOL!

...he hs stated that if he could set a personal goal for himself, passing Sawchuk for #1 all-time Wings winningest goalie would be something he would like...

...in order to do that he needs 74 more victories to pass Sawchuk, bot only as #1 on the Wings, but he'd be 5th on the ALL TIME list. That is an average of just under 24 wins a season for the life of his contract (going back to the start of this season.) He has 14 wins now, so he is well on his way to getting 24 or more this season. If he can get to #5 ALL TIME, also, CuJo is only a few wins ahead of Sawchuk, so if Ozzie can get passed Cujo as well, and into the #4 spot, does that FINALLY give him enough credit to get into the Hall of Fame and ALSO getting his #30 up in the rafters?

...my opinion is, he already has enough credentials to do both, but I don't vote, so my opinion means nothing. I think he can get passed Sawchuk, and with him mentioning that this is something he'd like to do, you know the organization will do everything in their power to make sure that is done (like playing him about 45-55 per season for the rest of his contract, giving him a great chance to acheive that goal (no pun intented.)

[55fan 5,133]

He deserves it. If that doesn't do it, nothing will. I'd love to see him do it.

Edited January 10, 2009 by 55fan

[Reds4Life 51]

Osgood is not HoF caliber goalie. Osgood never was top goalie in the league. No chance.

Edited January 10, 2009 by Reds4Life

[ComradeWasabi 109]

I don't think either one of those things will happen, but I would love for it to come true.

[Electrophile 3,554]

If he takes club records away from Sawchuk and wins 1 more Cup, I think he'll get in.

[LeftWinger 4,961]

Osgood is not HoF caliber goalie. Osgood never was top goalie in the league. No chance.

Uh.... This statement baffles me. How many Hall of Fame goalies have LESS than 3 Cups to their name? How many will NOT finish in the Top 5 ALL TIME in WINS?

...some folks just refuse to give OZzsie his credit. Will Hasek get in? How many Cups does he have? How many did he win personally? He WILL end up with LESS wins than Ozzie. If the Wings DON'T go to Ozzie last year, they DON'T win the Cup...

again....

[Reds4Life 51]

Uh.... This statement baffles me. How many Hall of Fame goalies have LESS than 3 Cups to their name? How many will NOT finish in the Top 5 ALL TIME in WINS?

...some folks just refuse to give OZzsie his credit. Will Hasek get in? How many Cups does he have? How many did he win personally? He WILL end up with LESS wins than Ozzie. If the Wings DON'T go to Ozzie last year, they DON'T win the Cup...

again....

It is Hall of Fame, not Hall of Very Good. Osgood never was top goalie in the league. He never won Vezina or any major individual trophy. Hasek has won 6 Vezinas, 2 Hart trophies, 2 Pearsons, Hasek is so much better it's not even funny.

Osgood was good for many years, but that does not get you into the Hall of Fame.

[Doc Holiday 0]

It is Hall of Fame, not Hall of Very Good. Osgood never was top goalie in the league. He never won Vezina or any major individual trophy. Hasek has won 6 Vezinas, 2 Hart trophies, 2 Pearsons, Hasek is so much better it's not even funny.

Osgood was good for many years, but that does not get you into the Hall of Fame.

So what if Hasek is better?

[Outsider 42]

It is Hall of Fame, not Hall of Very Good. Osgood never was top goalie in the league. He never won Vezina or any major individual trophy. Hasek has won 6 Vezinas, 2 Hart trophies, 2 Pearsons, Hasek is so much better it's not even funny.

Osgood was good for many years, but that does not get you into the Hall of Fame.

You're right, Ozzie doesn't have loads of "individual" awards. All he's got are a bunch of those pesky "Team" types of numbers. That's probably because Chris Osgood is the ultimate "Team" guy.

Good thing for Oz that Hockey is a Team game. What a fortuitous coincidence.

I'm thinkin' Chris isn't gonna lose much sleep over it, one way or another.

[Outsider 42]

So what if Hasek is better?

Weren't you aware that the fact that Hasek won more individual awards means that Osgood is a crap goaltender?

Sheesh! What rock have you been living under?

[Datsyerberger 279]

3 cups, 2 as playoff starter > HOF, imo

[Echolalia 2,961]

Osgood has a lot of credentials and that definitely helps his cause, but its hard for me to put Osgood into the same category as the other HOF goalies.

[eva unit zero 271]

It is Hall of Fame, not Hall of Very Good. Osgood never was top goalie in the league. He never won Vezina or any major individual trophy. Hasek has won 6 Vezinas, 2 Hart trophies, 2 Pearsons, Hasek is so much better it's not even funny.

Osgood was good for many years, but that does not get you into the Hall of Fame.

And many consider Hasek the best ever.

Nobody is arguing for Osgood as the best ever. Osgood has already earned a spot in the HHOF however, and if he plays his full contract with the same 2 wins per 3 GP and 21 GP per 41 team games that he is on pace for this season, he'll end up tying Sawchuk's 447 wins career and topping Sawchuk's Wings record of 351 by reaching 377. Those numbers would land him 5th and 3rd, respectively, overall and on a single team. He has never had a losing season, either.

[MississippiWing 14]

It is Hall of Fame, not Hall of Very Good. Osgood never was top goalie in the league. He never won Vezina or any major individual trophy. Hasek has won 6 Vezinas, 2 Hart trophies, 2 Pearsons, Hasek is so much better it's not even funny.

Osgood was good for many years, but that does not get you into the Hall of Fame.

The problem with this logic is one thing. Hasek was the top dog on a team of very average players. Ozzie was the bottom of the totem pole on a team of future hall of famers. I respect Hasek but the difference is if Buffalo is better, then he doesn't have to be that good. Ozzie's stats etc are overlooked because of the caliber of players that were on Detroit's teams for his time with Detroit. He wasn't ever the best goalie in the league but he won when it mattered. Ultimately there are people a lot less deserving in the HOF.

[Echolalia 2,961]

And many consider Hasek the best ever.

Nobody is arguing for Osgood as the best ever. Osgood has already earned a spot in the HHOF however, and if he plays his full contract with the same 2 wins per 3 GP and 21 GP per 41 team games that he is on pace for this season, he'll end up tying Sawchuk's 447 wins career and topping Sawchuk's Wings record of 351 by reaching 377. Those numbers would land him 5th and 3rd, respectively, overall and on a single team. He has never had a losing season, either.

The problem with those numbers is they also reflect the performance of the rest of the team. Throughout Osgood's career, the Wings have boasted some of the best defense the nhl has ever seen. Ever. Offense has also been within the top five every year since the mid 90's, usually within the top two. That's gonna pad the win column pretty generously.

That's not taking anything away from Osgood, though, as he has been there when called upon, but I have never considered him to be one the top goaltenders in the league any year that he has played nhl.

[eva unit zero 271]

The problem with those numbers is they also reflect the performance of the rest of the team. Throughout Osgood's career, the Wings have boasted some of the best defense the nhl has ever seen. Ever. Offense has also been within the top five every year since the mid 90's, usually within the top two. That's gonna pad the win column pretty generously.

That's not taking anything away from Osgood, though, as he has been there when called upon, but I have never considered him to be one the top goaltenders in the league any year that he has played nhl.

Grant Fuhr is in the Hall of Fame. Yet he never posted a GAA below 2.70 the same season he posted a save percentage above 90%, and only twice did he EVER post a save percentage above 90%. In Fuhr's best season in terms of save %, Osgood nearly won the Vezina.

Grant Fuhr never posted a better save %, GAA, or win % than Osgood did in the time they were in the league together. Never. Only once did Osgood during his entire career post a GAA above 2.90, while Fuhr did it three times during Osgood's career. Fuhr posted sub-.900 sv% five times during Osgood's career, yet Osgood has only done that three times.

You don't think if Osgood ends his career with about 450 wins that he'll be in the Hall of Fame? You don't think that ending his career with what would have been the All-Time Wins Record when he started is enough to get him inducted? That's before considering the fact he has won Jennings awards, been on the postseason All-Star team, and won Cups.

You can not like Osgood if you choose; but he has had an amazing career and will be a HOFer.

[Reilly 24]

It is Hall of Fame, not Hall of Very Good. Osgood never was top goalie in the league. He never won Vezina or any major individual trophy. Hasek has won 6 Vezinas, 2 Hart trophies, 2 Pearsons, Hasek is so much better it's not even funny.

Osgood was good for many years, but that does not get you into the Hall of Fame.

Right, but there are plenty of players who haven't won anything, let alone one stanley cup, that have made it into the Hall of Fame. I side with you that the Hall should be for the very best players, the very elite, but in actuality that's not the case. Will Osgood get in? Yes. Should he get in? No.

[pockets 9]

I think he should be in you cant fault him for being on a good team.

Id also like to add Cujo faltered while playing for us where was our defense that helps Ozzie out when Cujo played for us

The argument of he had a good D in front of him is moot would you take anything from Brodeur b/c he played all those years behind the Devils defense

[BlueMonk 102]

good D in front of him is moot would you take anything from Brodeur b/c he played all those years behind the Devils defense

Well, I would. But then again, I'm of the opinion that Brodeur is ridiculously overrated.

I don't think Osgood will make the HHOF because I don't think enough of the people who have a vote will agree that he's worthy of it. Whether any of us thinks he is or not is besides the point. Ultimately, he's never been considered one of the best goaltenders in any given season. There's something to be said for longevity and performance over time, but I don't think he has enough respect from people around hockey to get in.

[SweWings 45]

You can not like Osgood if you choose; but he has had an amazing career and will be a HOFer.

Big smile

[pjgj13 30]

It is Hall of Fame, not Hall of Very Good. Osgood never was top goalie in the league. He never won Vezina or any major individual trophy. Hasek has won 6 Vezinas, 2 Hart trophies, 2 Pearsons, Hasek is so much better it's not even funny.

Osgood was good for many years, but that does not get you into the Hall of Fame.

I would rather have someone good over many years than have someone great over a short period of time.

Here are some career stats of goalies in the HHOF....

G W L T SO GAA W% Pt%

Tony Esposito 886 423 306 151 76 2.92 .477 .562

Grant Fuhr 868 403 295 114 25 3.38 .464 .530

Gump Worsley 861 335 352 150 43 2.88 .389 .476

Terry Sawchuk 971 447 330 172 103 2.51 .460 .549

Patrick Roy 1029 551 315 131 66 2.54 .535 .599

Jacques Plante 837 437 246 145 82 2.38 .522 .609

Bernie Parent 608 271 198 121 54 2.55 .445 .545

Glenn Hall 906 407 326 163 84 2.49 .449 .539

Ed Giacomin 609 289 209 96 54 2.82 .475 .553

Ozzie 685 377 197 66 47 2.45 .550 .599

Ozzie's W% is higher than all the above, his GAA is 2nd best. His stats are comparably better than all the above in the HHOF. Who cares if he played on "great teams". Fuhr played on some of the best teams ever, but his GAA sucks and his W% isn't all that good either. Remember the last few years there is no tie game and (I forget the year), the games ended in a tie at end of regulation and there was no OT.

[xXHOCKEYTOWNXx 1]

I would rather have someone good over many years than have someone great over a short period of time.

Here are some career stats of goalies in the HHOF....

G W L T SO GAA W% Pt%

Tony Esposito 886 423 306 151 76 2.92 .477 .562

Grant Fuhr 868 403 295 114 25 3.38 .464 .530

Gump Worsley 861 335 352 150 43 2.88 .389 .476

Terry Sawchuk 971 447 330 172 103 2.51 .460 .549

Patrick Roy 1029 551 315 131 66 2.54 .535 .599

Jacques Plante 837 437 246 145 82 2.38 .522 .609

Bernie Parent 608 271 198 121 54 2.55 .445 .545

Glenn Hall 906 407 326 163 84 2.49 .449 .539

Ed Giacomin 609 289 209 96 54 2.82 .475 .553

Ozzie 685 377 197 66 47 2.45 .550 .599

Ozzie's W% is higher than all the above, his GAA is 2nd best. His stats are comparably better than all the above in the HHOF. Who cares if he played on "great teams". Fuhr played on some of the best teams ever, but his GAA sucks and his W% isn't all that good either. Remember the last few years there is no tie game and (I forget the year), the games ended in a tie at end of regulation and there was no OT.

Don't forget.. None of the said hall of famers have any goals scored. Ozzie has a career total of 1.

[Reds4Life 51]

I would rather have someone good over many years than have someone great over a short period of time.

Here are some career stats of goalies in the HHOF....

G W L T SO GAA W% Pt%

Tony Esposito 886 423 306 151 76 2.92 .477 .562

Grant Fuhr 868 403 295 114 25 3.38 .464 .530

Gump Worsley 861 335 352 150 43 2.88 .389 .476

Terry Sawchuk 971 447 330 172 103 2.51 .460 .549

Patrick Roy 1029 551 315 131 66 2.54 .535 .599

Jacques Plante 837 437 246 145 82 2.38 .522 .609

Bernie Parent 608 271 198 121 54 2.55 .445 .545

Glenn Hall 906 407 326 163 84 2.49 .449 .539

Ed Giacomin 609 289 209 96 54 2.82 .475 .553

Ozzie 685 377 197 66 47 2.45 .550 .599

Ozzie's W% is higher than all the above, his GAA is 2nd best. His stats are comparably better than all the above in the HHOF. Who cares if he played on "great teams". Fuhr played on some of the best teams ever, but his GAA sucks and his W% isn't all that good either. Remember the last few years there is no tie game and (I forget the year), the games ended in a tie at end of regulation and there was no OT.

Osgood has always been solid golie but he was never top goalie and that's the point. He might have HoF worthy numbers but he is not gonna make it anyways.

Also, these numbers are misleading, you compare stats from totally different eras.

Edited January 11, 2009 by Reds4Life

[Echolalia 2,961]

Grant Fuhr is in the Hall of Fame. Yet he never posted a GAA below 2.70 the same season he posted a save percentage above 90%, and only twice did he EVER post a save percentage above 90%. In Fuhr's best season in terms of save %, Osgood nearly won the Vezina.

Grant Fuhr never posted a better save %, GAA, or win % than Osgood did in the time they were in the league together. Never. Only once did Osgood during his entire career post a GAA above 2.90, while Fuhr did it three times during Osgood's career. Fuhr posted sub-.900 sv% five times during Osgood's career, yet Osgood has only done that three times.

You don't think if Osgood ends his career with about 450 wins that he'll be in the Hall of Fame? You don't think that ending his career with what would have been the All-Time Wins Record when he started is enough to get him inducted? That's before considering the fact he has won Jennings awards, been on the postseason All-Star team, and won Cups.

By the time Osgood came into the nhl, Grant Fuhr had already played 12 seasons and was well past his prime, especially if you consider his bout with drugs and injuries, particularly a considerably debilitating injury that involved messing up his knee in 1996 (only a couple years after Osgood debuted in the nhl, and while Osgood was on a much better nhl team), therefore its unfair to compare the two while they were in the nhl together. Grant Fuhr also played his prime during the 'scoring era' of hockey, when it was common to have high goals against because teams would regularly score 5-6 goals per game. Wayne Gretzky himself has said Grant Fuhr is one of the greatest goaltenders in history, but if comparing a great goalie when hes injured, past his prime and suffering from drug abuse to a young, solid, goalie playing for a great team is enough for you to believe that Osgood deserves to be in the HOF, thats fine. But I disagree. Oh, and Fuhr has won five cups (only not starting in one due to injury), and played in five All Star games, won a Vezina, and scored second for the Hart Trophy behind only Mario Lemieux (he was ahead of Gretzky in votes that year). Of course all of this was while he played for Edmonton's dynasty, so I even question whether Fuhr should be in the hall of fame, and I personally think that race had a lot with him getting in.

You can not like Osgood if you choose; but he has had an amazing career and will be a HOFer.

Osgood is one of my favorite goalies of all time. I'm just a realist in his chances to get in.

[Hockeytown Red Wings 245]

Osgood never gets the credit he's due. All he get's is "with that defense in front of him, who wouldn't look good". Watch some of the games from the playoffs last year to remind yourself just how good Ozzie is when he's on his game, and he's got the stats to back it up. He probably won't be a first ballot inductee, but eventually I can see him getting in.