Keeping "The Big 3"

[thedisappearer 291]

In the discussion about the salary cap, what if teams were able to go over the cap to sign our own players, but not for picking up free agents? That way it places much more emphasis on developing your draft picks and what not.

You seen the NBA? It's a good idea, but fails in reality.

[Z and D for the C 712]

You seen the NBA? It's a good idea, but fails in reality.

I've never followed the NBA closely enough to know. Where does the problem come up? I'd guess the fact that it would make signing free agents nearly impossible, which is a pretty gaping hole.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

No way that the Wings are going to say goodbye to kopy, Sammy, Huds and Flip. And replace them with 4 guys from Grand Rapids. That would be just stupid. We would be trading alot of experience for guys that have barely played any in the NHL. Getting younger is great but you don't do it all at once.

That is just not going to happen.

Face the facts man, Hossa is gone. The Wings are going to sign Z, Mule and Huds. They may have to trade away Sammy or Lebda but the numbers just don't add up to keep Hossa unless you gut the team and Kenny just isn't going to do that. We are just to good to trash the roster for 1 guy even if it's Hossa.

As far as Pittsburgh. I think that Therien was one of the reasons that Hossa left. Word is that the players don't like him. I expect Therien to be gone if the Pens don't make the playoffs and they are in danger of just that. It wouldn't surprise me to see Hossa back in Pittsburgh. But thats IMO.

Enjoy the year with Hossa in a Red Wings uniform because he won't be back next year - simple math...

I'd say there's an equally good chance of Mule leaving.

Hossa's agent isn't a prick. Mule's agent is an absolute ******. The Wings struggled to get Mule for a mill last contract when he was a 3rd liner at best with no apparent scoring upside and his agent made Holland's life hell.

This is the Mule's last chance at a big payday- he doesn't have much money in the bank right now (unlike Hossa).

If Holland were negotiating with Mule directly I'd be less sceptical, but like I said- his agent significantly complicates things.

Everyone here who thinks the Wings will get the Mule for 4 million is absolutely insane. The Wings will be amazingly lucky if they get him for 5 million. He'll likely go for a bit under 6 million if he says, 7 million if he goes. Look at the other contracts being thrown around in the NHL!

[Drake_Marcus 890]

I've said it many times before that I think Lids will return from his present contract and take a greatly reduced salary to benefit the organization. I'm hoping at this point that because of the opportunity the Wings granted him that Franzen will be willing to stay for a lower price than some other team would overpay for him on the market. Hudler's breakout season is really complicating things. Hopefully he'll do the same as Franzen. I think Samuelsson is as good as gone. We know Chelios is gone too. Conklin will probably have to be let go to bring up one of the cheaper, younger goalies like Howard or Larsson. The tricky one is gonna be Zetterberg. What is he wanting in terms of dollars? Does he stay around Dats' number or does he take $5 million to help the team? Hossa would have to accept a similar number to make it work.

It is unreal how the NHL wanted "cost certainty" and now the teams this cap was supposed to help have either been hurt by the cap or still can't manage to operate to a profit. I can't imagine how bad things will be if the cap drops to $50 million.

Conklin? Howard makes about $33,000 less than him, Larsson makes $115,000 less. However, Howard MUST come up next season or he'll be exposed to waivers. His minor league time expires this season. It's the exact same situation as we had with Quincey. The question is whether Howard will prove in the next 40 games that he has a handle on his terrible inconsistency. If not... I dunno- the Wings might have to trade him while his stock is high. He looked good last season when he got called up, so that does help him. Larsson won't be up here unless he continues to play allstar hockey in the AHL, surplants Howard in Grand Rapids (he's on the verge of doing that right now, although Howard's been playing much better lately) AND Howard is traded.

Zetterberg won't take $5 million- that's insane. We would be lucky to get Franzen for $5 million. If Zetterberg can be had for the exact same contract as Dats we're golden.

Holland himself has stated the cap won't change much next season (the season after that will probably be a s***-show).

[Louisville 112]

Let's go over the cap.

[Yzersyukstromberg 0]

Let's go over the cap.

Or Kenny could pay the guys a modest wage, and throw in Little Caesar's pizza for life as an incentive...that should do it.

Seriously though...the NHL should have modified the way the cap works. Having a firm salary cap just doesn't make sense, as there's no point in handcuffing the teams that are willing to spend money. Best way to go about it would have been to impose a luxury tax on teams who spend more than the cap. What they'd do with that money, who knows, but it would allow teams to keep players around rather than having this constant uncertainty that every team now faces as players have their breakout seasons.

Obviously, a luxury tax would stop most teams from spending over the cap, but in a situation like this, the Wings could go over the cap by $5 or 6 million, and even if they were taxed 100% by the league on the amount they went over, it would probably still be worth it to keep the players in question on the team.

In a perfect world this might happen, but as we all know, this Gary Bettman's NHL, and perfect will never be associated with that a'hole.

[r0bert8841 0]

y not give them a 2 mill contract each and give them items that are worth 10 million, like a huge ring or their very own business or resturant franchises. that stuff doesnt count against the cap right?

[Datsyerberger 279]

OK, Imma throw out my pipe dream plan to make this work.

Hossa signs for Dats money.

Z signs a 1 year deal at 7.4

Next off season (2 from now), Lids either retires (NOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) or resigns at a greatly reduced price. He has tons of money already, why not get a third straight Cup?

Z get a long deal at Dats money.

But, out of Sammy, Huds, and Mule, we lose two.

With that plan we'd be over the cap. Gotta lose Sammy and take 1/3 of Hudler, Mule, or Flip.

[ilmickeyli 40]

This thread depresses me

[Phazon 24]

...The wings did win a cup without him, and I think that factors in.

I have a hard time seeing wings getting rid of zetterberg, and with the way franzen is playing I cant see him gone either.

Hossa is a very good player, but I doubt he gets the nod here.

[Opie 308]

WOW what a great idea for a topic, it has got to be what 3 maybe 4 days since one of these popped up!

Yup 3 days it is:

Check out the time of my edit and time of my post, do some math and that is how long it took me to find this thread!

Edited January 15, 2009 by Opie

[Phazon 24]

I am so sorry. I should be punished severely.

[steveyzerman 0]

WOW what a great idea for a topic, it has got to be what 3 maybe 4 days since one of these popped up!

Yup 3 days it is:

Check out the time of my edit and time of my post, do some math and that is how long it took me to find this thread!

Thank God for that!

[esteef 2,679]

All is not lost, we can still use this thread to ***** about Crosby.

esteef

[steveyzerman 0]

Crosby's lazy & he sucks!

[edicius 3,269]

He's a diver and he whines and he's treated special because he lives with the owner of the team!

Oh wait, you weren't serious, were you?

[Winged_Wheeler 3]

-First time poster-

It's going to a big decision for Ken Holland to make, and we all know Z, Hoss, Mule, and Huds are players that we don't want to lose. Unfortunately, we can't keep them all. In my opinion, get Zetterberg re-signed first and renegotiate with Lidstrom about his contract. If we want to keep some players there's going to have to be a pay cut or someone traded. Hossa seems like he's liking it in Detroit and his game has really showed. Franzen, to me, seems like a player that will turn it on when he wants to, but don't get me wrong he's one heck of a player. He drives to the net well and is becoming a natural in front of the net. Hudler is having a great season. A great breakout season and winning a Cup boosted his confidence big time. Huds is a great puck handler and always looks for the open man. It's going to be hard.

Conclusion: Sign Zetterberg and try to work out something with Hossa. Talk to Lidstrom about how much he's making and see if you can a way to keep at least two players. Franzen is great and Hudler has a great future. It's going to be a big loss, but remember who we have in the AHL. Ville Leino is incredible and having Flippula on the Wings will build some chemistry since they're both Finnish. Jonathan Ericksson is also another player I'm looking forward to see on Defense, he's huge!

[This Is Bida 0]

I'd say there's an equally good chance of Mule leaving.

Hossa's agent isn't a prick. Mule's agent is an absolute ******. The Wings struggled to get Mule for a mill last contract when he was a 3rd liner at best with no apparent scoring upside and his agent made Holland's life hell.

This is the Mule's last chance at a big payday- he doesn't have much money in the bank right now (unlike Hossa).

If Holland were negotiating with Mule directly I'd be less sceptical, but like I said- his agent significantly complicates things.

Everyone here who thinks the Wings will get the Mule for 4 million is absolutely insane. The Wings will be amazingly lucky if they get him for 5 million. He'll likely go for a bit under 6 million if he says, 7 million if he goes. Look at the other contracts being thrown around in the NHL!

Oh my god THANK YOU! I tried to make this point in my original post but I don't think it came out right at all and focused too much on Hossa. It's like everyone on here is quick to think we'll sign the Mule for 2-3 million and Hossa won't take anything less than 7. This is an absolute money year for Franzen and how do we know he's not the exact OPPOSITE of Hossa and would rather have the money over the organization? So, now that reality has been brought up and people's dreams of signing Franzen for under 4-5 million is done with...

If you could have either Franzen or Hossa, and they both asked for the exact same amount (Hossa possibly taking a little bit less than Franzen)... NOW who would you rather have?

Personally, and again it's probably just me being biased, but I'd rather have Hossa for the same/a little less money than Franzen. Then again, maybe we've forgotten that Hossa was probably the 2nd or 3rd best player in last years play-offs only to Franzen and Z.

Is Franzen still as hungry for a Cup now that he has one? Especially as hungry as Hossa obviously is?

I'll say it one last time but I think you're underestimating the kind of paycut and desire that Hossa has to play here in Detroit!

Then again, it's probably just wishful thinking from somone who has been a Hossa fan since he stepped foot in this league?

[VM1138 1,921]

Sammy, Flip, Lebda, Kopecky are all expendable. How much does that free up?

[Maaq 0]

We all know that Holland is the master in the GM world. He can do anything.

So think about it ...

Trade Howard for a young player (or again, good draft picks), to be able to take Hossa's place on the top line. Even if we have Leino, Abde or Helm, I'm not quite sure that they'll make it to the skill of Hossa, or to be able to play on the first line for that matter. So? Not Hossa, no Howard, but we get young, exiting players that can get the job done?

I don't know about you guys, but having Kyle Turris (fictional example) get's me more happy than knowing that we we have Marian Hossa.

[Winged_Wheeler 3]

Sammy, Flip, Lebda, Kopecky are all expendable. How much does that free up?

I wouldn't trade Flippula, he's young and has something in him. You see all of those great passes he makes to Hudler and usually end up as a goal. Flippula can deke if he wants to, but he's still learning the ropes of the NHL. Keep him.

[b.shanafan14 733]

-First time poster-

It's going to a big decision for Ken Holland to make, and we all know Z, Hoss, Mule, and Huds are players that we don't want to lose. Unfortunately, we can't keep them all. In my opinion, get Zetterberg re-signed first and renegotiate with Lidstrom about his contract. If we want to keep some players there's going to have to be a pay cut or someone traded. Hossa seems like he's liking it in Detroit and his game has really showed. Franzen, to me, seems like a player that will turn it on when he wants to, but don't get me wrong he's one heck of a player. He drives to the net well and is becoming a natural in front of the net. Hudler is having a great season. A great breakout season and winning a Cup boosted his confidence big time. Huds is a great puck handler and always looks for the open man. It's going to be hard.

Conclusion: Sign Zetterberg and try to work out something with Hossa. Talk to Lidstrom about how much he's making and see if you can a way to keep at least two players. Franzen is great and Hudler has a great future. It's going to be a big loss, but remember who we have in the AHL. Ville Leino is incredible and having Flippula on the Wings will build some chemistry since they're both Finnish. Jonathan Ericksson is also another player I'm looking forward to see on Defense, he's huge!

First of all, welcome. But no thanks. I liked Leino in the preseason too, and Helm last year. But you don't subtract two guys who you've developed yourself, who are having breakout years with Franzen currently at 20g, 11a and Hudler at 17g, 20a totalling 37g, 31a between the two for one player who is sitting at 20g,20a in Hossa. I'm not saying Hossa doesn't have tremendous talent and isn't a hound defensively, I'm just saying if you can keep a bit of depth intact for maybe a million or two more for two players as opposed to one, we'd be better off. Hudler and Franzen are only getting better and we've won before Hossa, we'll win after.

Fact of the matter is, no matter how impressed we all are by whats in GR, you don't replace two of your top players, who are both in the top 4 on the team in goals, pacing for around 30-40 goals this season and replace them with AHLers and not have a huge drop in depth.

[b.shanafan14 733]

We all know that Holland is the master in the GM world. He can do anything.

So think about it ...

Trade Howard for a young player (or again, good draft picks), to be able to take Hossa's place on the top line. Even if we have Leino, Abde or Helm, I'm not quite sure that they'll make it to the skill of Hossa, or to be able to play on the first line for that matter. So? Not Hossa, no Howard, but we get young, exiting players that can get the job done?

I don't know about you guys, but having Kyle Turris (fictional example) get's me more happy than knowing that we we have Marian Hossa.

This is just.... wrong.

[Winged_Wheeler 3]

First of all, welcome. But no thanks. I liked Leino in the preseason too, and Helm last year. But you don't subtract two guys who you've developed yourself, who are having breakout years with Franzen currently at 20g, 11a and Hudler at 17g, 20a totalling 37g, 31a between the two for one player who is sitting at 20g,20a in Hossa. I'm not saying Hossa doesn't have tremendous talent and isn't a hound defensively, I'm just saying if you can keep a bit of depth intact for maybe a million or two more for two players as opposed to one, we'd be better off. Hudler and Franzen are only getting better and we've won before Hossa, we'll win after.

Fact of the matter is, no matter how impressed we all are by whats in GR, you don't replace two of your top players, who are both in the top 4 on the team in goals, pacing for around 30-40 goals this season and replace them with AHLers and not have a huge drop in depth.

True. I'm trying to find the article I read yesterday concerning the Zetterberg and Hossa situation. I think it was the Free Press and said Hossa wants to remain a Red Wing for the long term because he likes the system they play and he's playing with players who in 4-5 years in their prime. I still have yet to re-find another article that stated Hossa wants Zetterberg to be signed first until the Wings deal with him.

I think the plan is working out a deal with Zetterberg for $6.7 million, same as Datsyuk, and Hossa to take that as well. Franzen will probably demand $4 million and as for Hudler...who knows.

[Datsyerberger 279]

It's threads like this that make me wish people would read the entire thread before posting. 2-3 pages in multiple people have shown the math it would require to keep just Hossa and Zetterberg or Zetterberg and Franzen or any combination of Franzen, Hudler, Zetterberg, Hossa, and Flip. And of course people post another page and a half of fantasy situations of keeping Hossa and Z with other players as well even though people have shown that even if they take less than Pavel money, it will still be hard to get a 22 man team under the cap, much less a 22 man team with those 2, and Franzen OR Hudler OR Flip.

Edit: Eh, I'm cranky. Just got done working out an irritating server problem.

Edited January 16, 2009 by Datsyerberger