Keeping "The Big 3"

[Blaayze 25]

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=505236

Not sure how to look into this, but maybe the idea of having Hossa long term is more likely then we think? Or are we falling into the same trap Pitt did.

[P. Marlowe 748]

Not sure how to look into this, but maybe the idea of having Hossa long term is more likely then we think?

That article doesn't really say that. In fact it doesn't actually say anything new. It would be quite a miracle if Detroit would be able to keep both Zetterberg and Hossa. Even if it means losing Franzén and Hudler it would still be quite a miracle.

[Booster313 138]

That is some of the best news I have heard all season....I am cautiously optimistic...I realize it's still a long shot but at least they are talking...that means that at least the feeling of coming back is mutual...if the right deal can be hammered out.

[b.shanafan14 733]

Article doesn't say anything new, just reiterates what we all know: the salary cap sucks because we have a great team, with great players who its safe to say none of them want to leave but all of them deserve paydays we can't provide under the cap.

And yet there are still those hugging the floor of the cap and mediocre teams maxing it out, not sure how well the system works, especially when there are still $10mil/year contracts getting handed out....

[Blaayze 25]

Yeah, I guess people can take it the way they do, just thought it would be an interesting read. Guess I should have said that. Reality is definitely still there and that means its going to be hard as hell on management deciding on who to keep. Oh well, at least this is some kinda news, even if it does state what we already know.

Edited January 10, 2009 by Blaayze

[maltbymaniac 13]

if there is a will there is a way.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

if there is a will there is a way.

There may be a will to accept 7M per season, but not the will to accept 5 or 6M, which is what its going to take at this point.

[Chase 0]

The article does say that Hossa likes it here, and wants to stay. THAT is what I want to hear. But whether or not he can because of the cap is another situation. But I believe in Kenny.... GET IT DONE!!!

[C-TownWing 0]

Or are we falling into the same trap Pitt did.

I was very critical of Pens fans over the whole thing, and I vowed not to become a hypocrite, so I'm keeping my expectations low. It's nice to keep hearing that there's mutual interest in something long-term (and that both sides seem to think it's somehow possible--I fail to see how it is) but until pen is put to paper, he's a full-season rent-a-player that I expect to be elsewhere next season.

[Konnan511 1,736]

Hossa is one and done with this team. It really doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out. We had space, we signed him. We're using the space from his contract when he leaves to re-sign multiple people. The end, these threads need to stop.

[TheCaptain19 49]

at least theyre trying to figure something out.

[Z and D for the C 712]

If Hossa agreed to take less than Zetterberg, would you rather have Z or Hoss?

I'd pick the latter.

Edited January 10, 2009 by Z and D for the C

[RWK23 0]

If Hossa agreed to take less than Zetterberg, would you rather have Z or Hoss?

I'd pick the latter.

Depends how much less. If Hossa's willing to sign for something around Datsyuk's 6.7 long term and Z wants 8, then yeah, you have to sign Hossa. However, I don't think Holland will even negotiate with Hossa until after he has Z signed.

[Guest MrSandMan]

The only way to keep Hossa and Zetterberg is to waive Lidstrom and Holmstrom. I don't see that happening, so...

Bye Hossa, great knowin' ya and good luck with your new team!

[Bannedforlife 403]

The only way to keep Hossa and Zetterberg is to waive Lidstrom and Holmstrom. I don't see that happening, so...

Bye Hossa, great knowin' ya and good luck with your new team!

I dont see why it would take Lidstrom and Holmstrom. Waiving Lidstrom's salary would more than suffice.

[Datsyerberger 279]

Alright, this is a wildly optimistic post, bordering either on insanity or blind homerism. I obviously don't expect this, but we'll call it a Kenny Holland miracle.

We do know that Hossa likes it here and seems to (or at least says he wants to) stay. His agent, despite certainly knowing the Wings situation and the cap situation, seems willing to work with the Wings at well, at the very least give things a shot. He's already taken a cut to get with the Wings, perhaps, just perhaps he really likes the organization.

And then, as we all seem to believe Z to be a character guy, perhaps he too will be willing to take a deal to stay with (and in the future, captain?) the Wings.

They must certainly both be aware of the cap situation as well, and know it will likely bring the average new salary down..

So let's say they take long term deals at 6 mil each, or an average between them that comes to a cap hit of 6 mil each. That cheap, we're probably talking long enough to be career-long contracts, like 8 years for each. Possibly an NTC, too. Guaranteed home and big bucks over a length of time = less cap hit.

Anyhow, here goes some nuttiness.

Hossa (6)- Dats (6.7)- Homer (2.25)

(Someone) - Z (6) - Leino (.9)

Cleary - (Someone) - Kopecky (.6) -- If he improves and/or is kept around because of Hossa

Maltby (.88) - Draper (1.58) - (Someone)

(Someone)

Raffi (6) - Lids (7.45)

Kronner (3) - Stuart (3.75)

Lilja (1.1) - Big Rig (.85)

(Someone)

(Someone?)

Osgood (1.7)

(Someone)

51.61. Let's say the economy betters itself and the cap miraculously stays at 56. 4.3 mil left to fill a 2nd line forward, a 3rd line center, 2 4th line forwards, atleast 1 defenseman, and a goalie.

Since Meech can play both D and forward, let's say he stays. .5 -- That's 52.11

Helm kicks ass. And he's cheap. .6 -- That's 52.71

We satisfy GMR and others and have an enforcer on roster, be it Downey, Mac, or someone else. .5 -- That's 53.21

Lebda's cheap, and a decent 7th d-man. .65 -- That's 53.86.

Gotta have another goalie. Howards .75 or such? Could be wrong there, but -- 54.61

1.3 mil left to make it a 22 man roster with a touch of wiggle room. That automatically rules out Flip, who gets traded for picks or something. That leaves Hudler and Franzen. Hudler is younger and seems loaded with offensive talent. If he takes 1.3 mil or less, I think he's taken over Franzen. If he doesn't.. well, he's worth good picks when someone makes him an offer sheet, and we keep Franzen, assuming he signs for 1.3 mil or less. I don't see that as likely, but.. *shrug*. More likely we'd land someone else, or even keep Sammy if he'd stay cheap. Or we ditch Lilja and bring in a cheaper d-man.

Hossa - Dats - Homer

Hudler/Franzen/Sammy - Z - Leino

Cleary - Helm - Kopecky

Maltby - Draper - Enforcer

Raffi - Lids

Kronwall - Stuart

Lilja - Big Rig

Lebda

Meech

Osgood

Howard

Looks pretty damned unlikely, eh? Maybe Raffi gets traded (I dont think so..), or Cleary waives his NTC, or or or or..

Yea. Oh well, it'll at least be fun this season.

Regardless, git r done, Kenny!

(Edit: Just for a quick giggle, can you imagine the bitching that would take place on other team's forums if the Wings actually pulled something like that off? *snicker*)

Edited January 10, 2009 by Datsyerberger

[TheOwl 77]

I think it's a forgone conclusion Hudler will be signed. And either way if Franzen and Hudler both can be signed for around 7 million combined, it would be worth taking the pair rather then Hossa. The only way possible to sign all 4 including Sammy would be ditching Flipulla (may be worth it) and one of the higher paid D's. But just think, after next season Lidstrom's contract will be up freeing up a huge amount of cap, hopefully he'll stay obviously, but perhaps he'll take a discount to try and get another cup before he retires.

[Bluedevils_13 0]

Maybe Hossa and Z could take a-10 10 6 3 3 type contract kind of like what Vinny has in TB.

10.000 10.000 10.000 10.000 10.000 10.000 10.000 8.500 4.000 1.500 1.000 UFA

with the cap hit of 6.875.

This would give them both a cap hit of 6.3m leaving us with a total cap of 50.067,(According to nhlnumbers, which includes McCarty's total salary) and if the cap at least stays the same, about 7m left give or take. Now if we shed Meech, or Cheli doesn't come back, or we shed one of our extra defensemen(and if you subtract McCarty's contract), that could be a little more to work with around 8m. That leaves us there with about 8mil to sign Franzen,Hudler,Sammy, and maybe a backup goalie. We all know what they could make on the open market, but Franzen taking a deal like a 10 7 3.5 2 2, which would leave us with a cap hit of 4.08. That is with one year making the league max.

That would leave us with about 4m left for Hudler, Sammy, and a backup.

Our backup could easily be Howard with a cap hit of .750 I think. Our roster could easily lose one of Sammy and Hudler, but I am too tired to do rest of the math. Is it this a stretch? Maybe, but I see this as very plausible, unless the cap goes down by a great amount, which I don't see it doing, based on things I've heard. I'm still pretty optimistic, I guess.

Or we could just use Hossa's money on Tim Thomas.

Edited January 10, 2009 by Bluedevils_13

[Guest Shoreline]

I know Hossa is a decent player, but the Wings have won cups without him. If I had to pick between Z and Hossa, I pick the one that's so far stuck to one team and proven his usefulness and loyalty. Hossa is a rental unless he's shown to stick with the team and take a cut and backseat to Z's contract.

[b.shanafan14 733]

Keeping Zetterberg and Hossa is impossible. Lets say the cap stays right where it is, which is optimistic. We are right up against the cap. Now best case senario, Conn Smyth winner Henrik Zetterberg and Marian Hossa care so little about money they decide to split Hossa's current salary, leaving us right up against the cap still, but now both are making around $5 mil a season, a tremendous stretch. Now factor in Hudler, Franzen, and Samuellson wanting and deserving raises each, especially Franzen and Hudler, all would have to go and you would have to replace them with a list of players from GR, cutting the Wings depth in half, the same depth that won us a cup last spring.

I'd like to be as optimistic as the next guy, but the ceiling for my optimism is in the realm of possibility, sign Zetterberg, Franzen and Hudler if we can, and we're lucky enough. I love Hossa as much as the next guy, but don't get too attached.

[Pat 44]

We will find out trade deadline day if hossa will be staying or not.

If no trades occur (filppulla) then its not possible. But if we can get rid of him then we open up a lot of space.

[VM1138 1,921]

I just hope that we don't lose a bunch of players in order to make room for Hossa, and then not make a deal with Hossa. I don't think Kenny would make a mistake like that, but man that'd be awful.

[thedisappearer 291]

However, I don't think Holland will even negotiate with Hossa until after he has Z signed.

The article said Hossa's agent has been in talks with Holland, so...

[Datsyerberger 279]

This would give them both a cap hit of 6.3m leaving us with a total cap of 50.067,(According to nhlnumbers, which includes McCarty's total salary)

I'm afraid the numbers are wrong there, as NHL numbers often is.

Datsyuk + Holmstrom + Z and Hossa (both at a cap hit of only 6 each) + Lids + Raffi + Kronner + Stuart + Cleary + Draper + Maltby + Lilja + Kopecky + Osgood + Leino + Big Rig = 51.61 -- That's 6 D-men, 1 goalie, and 9 forwards, leaving 3 forward slots that need to be filled, 1 goalie, and then thats only a 20 man roster, entirely unacceptable, so a 22 man roster would bring in 1 extra d-man and 1 extra forward (perhaps one of those 2 someone that can play both positions, like Meech) -- 5.2 to fit all that in assuming a cap of 56 million. All of those players are currently signed throughout the next year, except Hossa and Z, and Leino and Big Rig dont count on the cap right now, but I think it's likely we'll see them next year, at only .9 an .85 each (or something close to that).

That list left out Flip, Hudler, Franzen, Sammy, Mac, Lebda, Cheli, and Conklin.

Let's fill in the cheap roles first. We need a 3rd line center. Helm. He's only .6 -- 52.21

We also need a backup forward.. let's say Meech, he's cheap and can be a d-man too .5 -- 52.71

And we need a 12th forward, let's say a grinder or enforcer. .5 -- 53.21

We need a backup d-man. Lebda's cheap at .65 -- 53.86

Need a goalie. Howard's .75, I think -- 54.61

Flip puts us over the cap at this point. He's shipped.

We need 1 more forward, a 2nd line guy. We have a little over 1.3million left to snag Hudler or Franzen and make it a 22 man roster. If both will take it, well, 2 ways to look at this. Keep Hudler, because he's young and has great offense, or keep Franzen, because we can get nice picks for Hudler since he's RFA. Good luck getting either of them to take that money in the

first place.

If the cap stays the same, and Hossa and Z sign for only 6 mil each, and if we keep all of our currently signed players and add Big Rig and Leino, we lose Flip, Sammy, Cheli, Conklin (Because he gets replaced), and likely both Hudler and Franzen, unless one of them sign ultra cheap, and we have Big Rig, Leino, and Helm on the roster.

[Datsyerberger 279]

*snip* My longwinded chatter

Realistically, the only way we keep Z and Hossa both is by shedding quite a bit of weight and them taking deals, and the only we keep Z, Hossa, and one of Franzen or Hudler is by them all taking really small 1 year deals so they can work it all out at Lidstrom's next contract. Like, 5 mil for Z and Hoss and 3 mil for Hudler or Franzen.

Even if we only get 1 of Z or Hossa this offseason, look forward to keeping only 2/3 of Hudler, Franzen, Flip.

Edit: At the same time, the article does give me some hope. The fact that they are talking means Kenny thinks it's not an entirely hopeless situation, and the mention of a plan gives me the idea he's trying to work out some miracle to keep Z + Hossa + one of Franzen/Flip/Hudler -- can he make them buy into it, though?

Edited January 10, 2009 by Datsyerberger