How much trouble are the Coyotes in?

[NorthDakotaWingsFan 0]

I live in the Phoenix area and have for the last few years. Since moving here I have frequently attend the Yotes games and noticed a growing trend: Empty seats. I have been hearing more and more talk about just how bad they are doing here in the desert and am just wondering what you folks think. I personally don't think they ever should have gotten a team in the first place (but do love going to games).

Here is an interesting blog article that I also found on the subject. http://thehockeywriters.com/deserted/

[TheOwl 77]

The fact that the team is playing well, has a few star players, and will probably make the play-offs says it all. The team could probably win the Cup and still not sell out. Team should be moved to Vegas, Seattle or Hamilton or Winnipeg or anywhere with actual hockey fans. Look at the Wild, new team, isn't doing fantastic, and they sell out every game in their history. Obviously since the team can't be moved to a city in such a small window, they should just remove it from the league, and another team from the East, to 28 total teams, for next season. Maybe Tampa, maybe Florida or Carolina. Either way, losing 2 teams for a few seasons would be good for the league until they can find 2 better cities down the road. Less crap teams = higher salary cap, more quality players in a smaller amount of teams.

Edited January 19, 2009 by TheOwl

[wingfanatic4alltime 32]

Wow great article thanks for posting. The Owl thats not a bad idea you have btw. Now after reading that article its really depressing to hear about the coyotes i dont see how anyone can be positive about that franchise outstanding bettman hey anyone else hear the rumor he wants to move the team to Mexico

[HD30 6]

hey anyone else hear the rumor he wants to move the team to Mexico

I'd love nothing more >_>

[thedisappearer 291]

As much as I want to move some teams back to Canada, move the Yotes to Vegas.

It doesn't change and divisional s***, and you know that they will get corporate sponsors. Casinos will comp you a few tix for dropping 2 hours at the blackjack table.

Damn Tocchet!!!!!

[sjradio 0]

They could also move them to Kansas City, a site that has a new multi-use multi million dollar facility. Plus they made a push for the Pens, they also would provide a great natural rivalry with St. Louis. It would also keep the divisional alignment as well.

Sprint Center (Kansas City)

http://www.sprintcenter.com/

[sjradio 0]

hey anyone else hear the rumor he wants to move the team to Mexico

Don't you just want to hear Karen Nueman's version of the Mexican National anthem??

[Manoir 70]

I'm a Canadian but I hate it whenever there is an Amerian franchise that is in trouble and the reaction is to move the team to Winnipeg or Quebec City. Phoenix used to play to packed houses, I vividly remember their series against the Wings in'98 and the place was insane with the white-out. Chicago and Boston were playing in front of 5,000 fans until recently. We all know about the Wings attendance problems.The Penguins were dead last in attendance in the early part of the decade. Most franchises go through phases of attendance and I'm sure that a couple of winning seasons will bring back the fans in Phoenix. I don't know how many people know this, but in the early 90's Edmonton was drawing less than 10,000 fans a game. I hate it when a southern US team is having problems drawing fans it is immediately attributed to lack of enthusiasm for hockey in general in the area. The writers never explain why San Jose and Dallas have traditionally drawn very well despite being non-hockey markets.

[Datsyerberger 279]

If we're going to move a team, I'd much rather it be an eastern team. Atlanta would seem to be the prime pick, because.. well, it's frigging Atlanta. Not because it's in the south. Carolina, TB, and FL are in the south and I'm okay with them. I'm in the south. It's because it's Atlanta. Which cares about as much about hockey as death metal cares about a banjo. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to learn the vast majority of that team's fans are transplants from other areas.

Also, this is partly motivated by self interest.. an eastern team being moved to the west means the Wings get moved to the east.

[Duck Guy 86]

That would be sucky to have your hometown team move away. I mean sure if it losing money in the end it is just business. All i know if i was in a state with one hockey team and that got moved i would move to a state with a team ^^...

[elriqo28 2]

. We all know about the Wings attendance problems.

I don't really see the wings having attendance problems....maybe in the eyes of Detroit fans who are used to 10 years of sellouts, but they are stilll selling 95% of the seats. Not bad for having the worst economy in the nation.

[cusimano_brothers 1,655]

I think Phoenix is as close to be on "life support" as possible. As always, Inspector Gadget is at the monitor. He is also working on the League's plan of damage control. I can't wait for Ron MacLean's interview with him during the ASG weekend.

[Kevvie 0]

Hmmm....I heard a rumor that Quebec City wants a professional hockey team.

But then again, if they get a pro hockey team, Montreal is going to want one as well....lmao!

[drwscc 212]

Also, this is partly motivated by self interest.. an eastern team being moved to the west means the Wings get moved to the east.

This has been discussed multiple times. Columbus is further east than Detroit, so if anyone moved it would be them.

Plus, the Wings are the jewel of the Western Conference. There's no way a move to the East would ever be approved by the Western teams. They all jack up the prices for Wings games, due to the Wings support, and would lose a ton of money.

[Zetterbeard40 0]

Just an idea. They should remove both Phoenix and Atlanta from the league. I know that the Nhl wants to expand to the American market, but its obviously not working. Atlanta is a transient city and Phoenix is not a hockey market, bottom line. By removing these teams that would make the league 28 teams. I say you remove the whole divisional system and make it two 14 team conferences. Each team plays everyone in their conference 4 times and each team in the opposite conference 2 times. This would make the season 78 games long instead of 82, allowing for the season to end a week or two earlier, as we all know how stupid it is that the season goes into June. My theory behind this is this. I know everyone is beginning to like some of the division rivalries, which the NHL is pushing, but there are too many division with unintriguing games, example, Toronto VS. Florida. Nobody cares. people can watch 5 of the 6 divisional games at home instead of going to the games. By making the amount of games even for each team in each conference and cross conference games, the league with not have any growning about teams not getting the high profile teams into town as much as other organizations. Moving forward, eliminating the divisions would mean seeding wopuld be different. They could seed the teams 1-8 in each conference. Since each team plays everybody the same amount of times, you dont get complaining that certain divisions are weaker than others. It just makes too much sense.

[HadThomasVokounOnFortSt 878]

I say you should get rid of Phoenix and move them to Kansas. Phoenix is not an area to have hockey. Never has, never will.

[Yzersyukstromberg 0]

Just an idea. They should remove both Phoenix and Atlanta from the league. I know that the Nhl wants to expand to the American market, but its obviously not working. Atlanta is a transient city and Phoenix is not a hockey market, bottom line. By removing these teams that would make the league 28 teams. I say you remove the whole divisional system and make it two 14 team conferences. Each team plays everyone in their conference 4 times and each team in the opposite conference 2 times. This would make the season 78 games long instead of 82, allowing for the season to end a week or two earlier, as we all know how stupid it is that the season goes into June. My theory behind this is this. I know everyone is beginning to like some of the division rivalries, which the NHL is pushing, but there are too many division with unintriguing games, example, Toronto VS. Florida. Nobody cares. people can watch 5 of the 6 divisional games at home instead of going to the games. By making the amount of games even for each team in each conference and cross conference games, the league with not have any growning about teams not getting the high profile teams into town as much as other organizations. Moving forward, eliminating the divisions would mean seeding wopuld be different. They could seed the teams 1-8 in each conference. Since each team plays everybody the same amount of times, you dont get complaining that certain divisions are weaker than others. It just makes too much sense.

It's a solid idea actually....only a few things....it would work out to an 80-game schedule in the format you suggested. 52 games in-conference (13 opponents x 4 games), 28 games out-of-conference (14 opponents x 2 games). This is probably a system that would work out perfectly for the league...which is exactly why Bettman will never do it. Good idea though. I like your train of thought.

The only thing I think would probably work better, overall, would be to move Phoenix back to Winnipeg, and move Atlanta to Kansas City. Doing this, you could still utilize the 2 conference system, only you'd have to have an uneven out-of-conference schedule in order to keep the schedule from going to 86 games. I wouldn't mind seeing an 84-game schedule like the league had back in the mid '90s. That would be the way to make this work.

[Datsyerberger 279]

This has been discussed multiple times. Columbus is further east than Detroit, so if anyone moved it would be them.

Plus, the Wings are the jewel of the Western Conference. There's no way a move to the East would ever be approved by the Western teams. They all jack up the prices for Wings games, due to the Wings support, and would lose a ton of money.

To be fair, I think Chi-town belongs in the east as well, which is (part of) why I'm a proponent of a 32 team league (in which the 2 new teams go to the west, one east team moves west and Detroit and Chicago go east). But Detroit and Chicago are going to be used waaaay too much for drawing attention in the west, as they have been.

On the other hand, I've read rumors on and off that the Wings have been promised a move east at the next opportunity, but I take all things like that with a grain of salt. Can anyone prove/disprove that one?

[Zetterbeard40 0]

Good point, I guess my math was a little off. I must have just been a little excited thinking something like this could ever happen. I wouldnt look at expanding the league simply because I dont think the talent pool is deep enough. There are too many players in the league right now who simply dont belong. This is why I would get rid of Atlanta, Phoenix, and move Florida out of Florida leaving only Tampa in that State. This would allow the league to open a merket in a better suited city than these cities already mentioned. The State of Florida does not have a big enough fan base to support two teams (maybe because its a tourist/old age destination). I wish something like this could actually happen, but with the direction the league is taking right now it just doesnt seem possible. We can only hope I guess

[BigTex 1]

I'm pretty sure they're waiting to see if the 'Yotes make the playoffs this year. They've been diligent about playing their young kids and developing into a pretty decent team.

Remember when everyone was talking about contracting the D-rays and their horrible attendance, then they turn around and go to the World Series? Funny things happen when you least expect them.

[j.hoop 64]

I'm a Canadian but I hate it whenever there is an Amerian franchise that is in trouble and the reaction is to move the team to Winnipeg or Quebec City. Phoenix used to play to packed houses, I vividly remember their series against the Wings in'98 and the place was insane with the white-out. Chicago and Boston were playing in front of 5,000 fans until recently. We all know about the Wings attendance problems.The Penguins were dead last in attendance in the early part of the decade. Most franchises go through phases of attendance and I'm sure that a couple of winning seasons will bring back the fans in Phoenix. I don't know how many people know this, but in the early 90's Edmonton was drawing less than 10,000 fans a game. I hate it when a southern US team is having problems drawing fans it is immediately attributed to lack of enthusiasm for hockey in general in the area. The writers never explain why San Jose and Dallas have traditionally drawn very well despite being non-hockey markets.

that was before they sucked balls for many consecutive years. i live in arizona and i can tell you that there isnt much buzz for hockey here. up until this year, the stadium would rely probably about 70% on the other teams fanbase to sell tickets- ask anyone whos been to a few different teams game.

[theman19 47]

True - however I question KC's ability to support an NHL franchise as well...Remember the KC Scouts? Today they're better known as the NJ Devils.

after that they where known as the colorado rockies, they couldn't possibly support a hockey team right?

[esteef 2,679]

Don't you just want to hear Karen Nueman's version of the Mexican National anthem??

Hola! Muchachos!

esteef

[Chelios57 31]

I'm a Canadian but I hate it whenever there is an Amerian franchise that is in trouble and the reaction is to move the team to Winnipeg or Quebec City. Phoenix used to play to packed houses, I vividly remember their series against the Wings in'98 and the place was insane with the white-out. Chicago and Boston were playing in front of 5,000 fans until recently. We all know about the Wings attendance problems.The Penguins were dead last in attendance in the early part of the decade. Most franchises go through phases of attendance and I'm sure that a couple of winning seasons will bring back the fans in Phoenix. I don't know how many people know this, but in the early 90's Edmonton was drawing less than 10,000 fans a game. I hate it when a southern US team is having problems drawing fans it is immediately attributed to lack of enthusiasm for hockey in general in the area. The writers never explain why San Jose and Dallas have traditionally drawn very well despite being non-hockey markets.

Man that's all I can do is applaud you! You are right on the button!! I totally agree with you 100%. Do you remember the atmosphere at Phillips Arena when the Thrashers joined the playoffs! Amazing!

The last thing that moving a franchise would do, is grow the sport. I am so happy to see someone finally say what is true, and it's great to hear a Canadian say it (because it seems most want every team to move to Winnipeg).

I don't think there is one team who HASN'T gone through lulls. I personally believe all the current franchises will be ok. Although I do believe having 3 teams in the exact same area is silly (sorry New Jersey, you go west young man).

[LeftWinger 4,953]

...this brings up the question, which teams can the NHL do without? I would say at least 4 if not 6 franchises should either fold up or move elsewhere...

...Move Phoenix back to Winnipeg, they deserve it and MAN would that arena be sold out FOREVER! Minnesota and Atlanta, for the life of me I cannot understand WHY a city cannot support a team, they lose it, so lets give them ANOTHER one!

...Columbus? Adios...

Which teams need to hang em up and which ones need to move? And no, not KC and not Vegas. They could not support a team. We need more teams in Canada (and I am American.) Winnipeg, Hamilton, Quebec, Halifax or maybe with all the talk about moving a team to Seattle, how about Victoria?