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Hank

Red Wings TV Ratings Down 21%

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It was revealed on WXYT The Ticket last night that the TV ratings for Red Wings games are down 21%.

What is the cause?

It can't be the economy as TV is essentially free.

It can't be the Teams lack of success?

They asked listeners to call in and give reasons why.

The resounding response was this:

- Not enough fighting or lack of fighters on the team.

- Too many Europeans

- Nobody to relate to

- Regular season is meaningless so why bother watching until the playoffs.

By far and away the top response was there wasn't a tough guy on the team.

I called in and said it's because the team has too many Europeans. This was shot down by the gentleman who was running the Wings pre-game show saying that players like Fedorov were very popular.

I wish I hadn't been hung up on before I could present my rebuttal. Yes the fans loved Fedorov, Larionov and the other Russians, but they still possessed so many North American stars to help offset the heavy European influence. At that time, we still had Shanahan, Lapointe, a prime Drapes, Maltby and McCarty and of course Yzerman.

All of those players are either gone, or a shell of what they once were. Now we have Kopecky, Samuelsson, Lielja and Filpulla. I'm not trying to insult those players, but fans can't jump on their bandwagon as easily.

I have no doubt that if the Wings were to swap rosters with Boston, the Joe would never have an empty seat and Illitch could go back to gouging fans for nose bleeds. And TV ratings would be through the roof. That team has a tremendous blend of speed, power, toughness, skill and a healthy balance of top North American and European talents. Not only that, but you have tough customers like Zdeno Chara, Scott Thornton and Milan Lucic.

I love the Wings. I always have. But I admit that I don't watch nearly as many games as I once did. I used to tape games for crying out loud. But lately, I find myself watching other teams on my Centre Ice Package. There's nobody on the Wings I can relate to like I could with Yzerman. I know I might be in the minority in my belief of the dip in TV ratings, but I truly believe that if the team were to swap out 4 top Europeans for 4 top North Americans, while adding some middleweights and a top heavyweight, the Joe would be rocking and more couch potatoes would tune in.

The economy was always brought up as an excuse for the lack of bodies at Joe Louis arena (an argument I never bought - The Tigers, Lions, Pistons and college teams never saw a dip in their attendance) .

But that argument can't be used for the lack of TV viewership. The only reason for that is fans simply care less for the current Red Wing squad. And it's not for lack of success.

It also wouldn't hurt if the Wings players themselves were made more accessible to fans. Tigerfest helps fans reach out to their baseball heroes and connect with the team. Why are the Wings sheltered in their high tower? Are they too good for the people that pay their salaries? A handshake or autograph goes a long way to establishing a fan base that becomes emotionally attached to their team. The evidence of declining TV ratings and need to reduce ticket prices just to fill the Joe makes me believe that there is far less attachment to the current group of Winged Wheelers.

Just my $.02.

Flame away or add your thoughts please. I'd love to hear what some LGWers have to say regardless if it's in agreement or staunch disagreement.

Cheers!

Edited by Hank

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- Not enough fighting or lack of fighters on the team.

- Too many Europeans

Funny, those are two of my main reasons why I like this team so much.

And look where you're from; Sweden. My theory is sound. People will watch players they can relate to. And you can relate to your own nationality. It's only natural.

This only strengthens my point(s).

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Guest micah
It was revealed on WXYT The Ticket last night that the TV ratings for Red Wings games are down 21%.

What is the cause?

It can't be the economy as TV is essentially free.

It can't be the Teams lack of success?

They asked listeners to call in and give reasons why.

The resounding response was this:

- Not enough fighting or lack of fighters on the team.

- Too many Europeans

- Nobody to relate to

- Regular season is meaningless so why bother watching until the playoffs.

By far and away the top response was there wasn't a tough guy on the team.

I called in and said it's because the team has too many Europeans. This was shot down by the gentleman who was running the Wings pre-game show saying that players like Fedorov were very popular.

I wish I hadn't been hung up on before I could present my rebuttal. Yes the fans loved Fedorov, Larionov and the other Russians, but they still possessed so many North American stars to help offset the heavy European influence. At that time, we still had Shanahan, Lapointe, a prime Drapes, Maltby and McCarty and of course Yzerman.

All of those players are either gone, or a shell of what they once were. Now we have Kopecky, Samuelsson, Lielja and Filpulla. I'm not trying to insult those players, but fans can't jump on their bandwagon as easily.

I have no doubt that if the Wings were to swap rosters with Boston, the Joe would never have an empty seat and Illitch could go back to gouging fans for nose bleeds. And TV ratings would be through the roof. That team has a tremendous blend of speed, power, toughness, skill and a healthy balance of top North American and European talents. Not only that, but you have tough customers like Zdeno Chara, Scott Thornton and Milan Lucic.

I love the Wings. I always have. But I admit that I don't watch nearly as many games as I once did. I used to tape games for crying out loud. But lately, I find myself watching other teams on my Centre Ice Package. There's nobody on the Wings I can relate to like I could with Yzerman. I know I might be in the minority in my belief of the dip in TV ratings, but I truly believe that if the team were to swap out 4 top Europeans for 4 top North Americans, while adding some middleweights and a top heavyweight, the Joe would be rocking and more couch potatoes would tune in.

The economy was always brought up as an excuse for the lack of bodies at Joe Louis arena (an argument I never bought - The Tigers, Lions, Pistons and college teams never saw a dip in their attendance) .

But that argument can't be used for the lack of TV viewership. The only reason for that is fans simply care less for the current Red Wing squad. And it's not for lack of success.

It also wouldn't hurt if the Wings players themselves were made more accessible to fans. Tigerfest helps fans reach out to their baseball heroes and connect with the team. Why are the Wings sheltered in their high tower? Are they too good for the people that pay their salaries? A handshake or autograph goes a long way to establishing a fan base that becomes emotionally attached to their team. The evidence of declining TV ratings and need to reduce ticket prices just to fill the Joe makes me believe that there is far less attachment to the current group of Winged Wheelers.

Just my $.02.

Flame away or add your thoughts please. I'd love to hear what some LGWers have to say regardless if it's in agreement or staunch disagreement.

Cheers!

I quoted that whole thing because I agree with it all. Great post.

It's sad when I have to turn the chanel on my Center Ice when the Wings are on so that I can watch an interesting hockey game, full of big hits and sick goals and black eyes. I love the Red Wings and always will, but on most nights, I'd rather watch the kind of hockey the Caps or Bruins or Ducks are playing. It's just more fun.

I don't get why a vocal minority blather on about wanting fighting out of the NHL. Why don't they just enjoy their Elite League or world cup hockey and leave the North American professional leagues as they've always been?

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I watch every game, as long as I am not working. I have only missed two games all season, BUT...

The Wings style of play is such that it has a tendency to bore you to sleep at times. This is especially true on a west coast trip when the games don't start until 10:00 or so.

I still love them. But I have to admit that the game last night against Dallas was the most exciting game of the season. Part of this I attribute to Downey being in the lineup, but mostly it is Steve Ott and a few of the other Stars stirring things up and the history that we have with them from last year's playoffs.

On a side note, this is the first day off that I have had in a long time. When did CNN get the porn queen newsreaders? :wub:

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Guest mindfly

Easy... Not enough north americans is probably the biggest reason though...look at the people at the joe 60% wear #19, when Steve retired I think the interest for the team sank :(

Edited by mindfly

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- Not enough fighting or lack of fighters on the team.

- Too many Europeans

- Nobody to relate to

- Regular season is meaningless so why bother watching until the playoffs.

I think it is a combination of all four of these, but I have bolded what I believe is the number one reason, with the other reasons contributing to it.

Asides from pretty hard-core Red Wings fans, what reasons are there to watch regular season games?

There are no more real rivalries.

There are no fights.

They're going to make the playoffs regardless.

Few identifiable, iconic north americans to rally behind.

Honestly, as long as the Wings keep winning and getting into the playoffs easily, regular season attention will continue to wane, no matter what. People like watching a struggle, not an inevivitable outcome... even if it is positive.

Hopefully they can infuse the roster with a few north americans in the coming years (maybe Abdelkader will be perfect for this) without losing their style of play or winning ways - and get some of the viewers back.

Get Kocur back to teach Lilja and some of the other guys (Kopecky, Franzen, Samuelsson) how to fight, like he did with Fischer.

EDIT -- I actually was listening at the time and heard your call. They did cut you off, and I was even thinking to myself, "Yeah, Fedorov was popular, but...."

Edited by egroen

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- Not enough fighting or lack of fighters on the team.

- Too many Europeans

- Nobody to relate to

- Regular season is meaningless so why bother watching until the playoffs.

I think it is a combination of all four of these, but I have bolded what I believe is the number one reason, with the other reasons contributing to it.

Asides from pretty hard-core Red Wings fans, what reasons are there to watch regular season games?

There are no more real rivalries.

There are no fights.

They're going to make the playoffs regardless.

Few identifiable, iconic north americans to rally behind.

Honestly, as long as the Wings keep winning and getting into the playoffs easily, regular season attention will continue to wane, no matter what. People like watching a struggle, not an inevivitable outcome... even if it is positive.

Hopefully they can infuse the roster with a few north americans in the coming years (maybe Abdelkader will be perfect for this) without losing their style of play or winning ways - and get some of the viewers back.

Get Kocur back to teach Lilja and some of the other guys how to fight, like he did with Fischer.

EDIT -- I actually was listening at the time and heard your call. They did cut you off, and I was even thinking to myself, "Yeah, Fedorov was popular, but...."

With many people Ive been associated with that are residents of the Detroit area, they are used to winning so much that they don't watch the regular season because they know the wings will finish 1st or 2nd over all and unless its really a marquee matchup they don't plan their night around it .....

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The lack of hitting and fighting is a turn off to the local fans. I don't know if the fans who cheer the team on from outside the Detroit area really get this, but this is a town that likes the rough stuff. It's definitely a factor in drawing fans in. Even losing last night's game, there was an excitement and emotion to the game that our guys don't bring on a nightly basis.

Look, we should all be grateful that this organization is so successful. And with the salary cap and the low draft picks every year, the Wings have to be really resourceful in putting together a roster that wins, and they do it year in and year out. But the downside to it is the emphasis on that aspect of hockey has been sacrificed.

Someone said on the GDT that he'd rather see the Wings lose games like the one they played last night than win the way they usually do, implying that it's a very methodical, almost robotic style of hockey that is void of the physical element. I wouldn't go that far; I love seeing the team hoist the Stanley Cup, because I like my team winning more than any of the other aspects. And the skill and puck possession game is a thing of beauty that should be appreciated.

But at the same time, I understand that mentality. At some point, the game itself is so different that it doesn't even feel like NHL hockey. The rivalry with Colorado was one of the best hockey rivalries I've seen, and it wasn't just based on two good teams, it was based on the bloodlust and general hatred that existed between the two teams. The Wings can never be part of a rivalry like that with players who just walk away from physical confrontations. You can love it or lament it, but that's just the way it is.

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And look where you're from; Sweden. My theory is sound. People will watch players they can relate to. And you can relate to your own nationality. It's only natural.

This only strengthens my point(s).

You know where I stand on this point Hank. Although I enjoy what European players add to the game I Love the North American style far better. The blend of the 2 is the ideal we had in the past and what we need in the future. f*** 3 million Filpula getting pushed around like a little jail house *****, I'd rather see Lucic smashing players through the boards, defending his team and still putting up 47 points to Filpula's 21. Or Sammuelson pretending to hit people and high tailing it when there is the thread of actual confrontation. I have never been shy about the fact that I am proud of our Canadian boys, and how they play the game and how much more exciting it would be to have more of that in our line up. I'm not hacking on all euro born players nor and I wishing they would all be removed from our roster all I am hoping for is for a few good Canadian additions, a nice blend like we had in years past... no flat out goons but a true Power Forward or 2. People even on LGW crave Downey and he is barely a hockey player but they crave him because he has a bit of the edge that we miss.

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Bad economy. That WILL stop people from watching TV, as they're busy worrying, working 2nd jobs, trying to find jobs, and dropping cable (which isn't free) or atleast non-standard channels (like FSN, Center Ice, etc) in the case of them not getting VS.

Throw in lackluster performances by the Wings all season long.

The Euro part may be a small part of it, but I don't think it's substantial as some other reasons.

Fighting may be part of it. A lot of Wings fans probably want to see some old time hockey.

Cup hangover for the fans, too. They just saw the team win a cup. A lot of fans aren't going to bother tuning in until the next playoffs. You know, the whole jaded thing. I think this one is the biggest factor besides the economy.

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"The regular season is meaningless, so why bother watching it" reason is about the biggest load of bulls*** I've ever heard. Basically, the people who say that are bandwagon fans. Thats a thinly veiled way of saying "If the Red Wings weren't perennial contenders, I wouldn't watch hockey at all." You aren't a real hockey fan, or a real fan of the Red Wings if all you care about is the playoffs.

YES there are too many Europeans and YES there isn't enough physicality. Everyone appreciates skilled players that can wow you with their moves - guys like Hank, Hossa, and Datsyuk - but nobody cares about skilled guys who are only moderately skilled like Filppula and Samuelsson. Also, games are much more exciting when there is more variation. Hitting and fighting brings that dimension to the game.

Get rid of Sammy, Kopecky, and Filppula. Add a guy like Neil. Give Downey some more games. If Franzen and Hossa can't be signed, don't replace them with Leino. Think guys like Eric Cole, Mike Knuble. This team definitely needs more edge.

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And look where you're from; Sweden. My theory is sound. People will watch players they can relate to. And you can relate to your own nationality. It's only natural.

This only strengthens my point(s).

I agree with him and I'm from Michigan. I don't have a problem with fighting when it's used to police the game, but I don't look forward to fights. I wish that players wouldn't cheap shot so fights wouldn't have to be part of the game. I watch every game and DVR 'em if I can't catch it live. I don't know why we have to reduce every player to their nationalilty. This team has just as much heart as the late 90's teams, they just play a different game. I don't understand how this team is less entertaining. There is so much skill on display every game.

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I think the OP hit on the elephant in the room... call it xenophobia if you want, but in general people are more comfortable with guys that sound like them and have names like them. I do think there is something to a slight Euro bias. That said, it's not that Detroiters dislike Euros... they just want them to supplement the NAs on the team. In most sports, balance is the key and I fear Detroiters aren't tuning in as much because there is such a sameness for a lot of the players. For all intents and purposes, Flip/Sammy/Hudler/Kopecky are all the same guy.

Besides that, I do also agree with the other posters about the lack of rivalries with the Wings. Part of the problem is that the Wings have been so good for so long, they haven't really been beaten by the opponents they play the most often. We like playing ANA because they beat us in the playoffs, and SJ has been beating us in the regular season, but the Wings have beaten everyone else fairly consistently. Dallas, Chicago, Nashville, Columbus, etc... they may see the Wings as rivals but I don't think we see any of them as true rivals yet. Without intriguing matchups, the regular season IS somewhat pointless when you know the Wings will get 100+ points and be a high seed.

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"The regular season is meaningless, so why bother watching it" reason is about the biggest load of bulls*** I've ever heard. Basically, the people who say that are bandwagon fans. Thats a thinly veiled way of saying "If the Red Wings weren't perennial contenders, I wouldn't watch hockey at all." You aren't a real hockey fan, or a real fan of the Red Wings if all you care about is the playoffs.

YES there are too many Europeans and YES there isn't enough physicality. Everyone appreciates skilled players that can wow you with their moves - guys like Hank, Hossa, and Datsyuk - but nobody cares about skilled guys who are only moderately skilled like Filppula and Samuelsson. Also, games are much more exciting when there is more variation. Hitting and fighting brings that dimension to the game.

Get rid of Sammy, Kopecky, and Filppula. Add a guy like Neil. Give Downey some more games. If Franzen and Hossa can't be signed, don't replace them with Leino. Think guys like Eric Cole, Mike Knuble. This team definitely needs more edge.

I didnt say I agreed with it, but there are many fans up there that are spoiled like that. I was in Detroit when they beat Pitt, and the people around Garden City were like "HO HUM ANOTHER FORD ROAD CRUISE" and it sort of ticked me off.

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Easy... Not enough north americans is probably the biggest reason though...look at the people at the joe 60% wear #19, when Steve retired I think the interest for the team sank :(

Excellent point about the jersey's.

During the Cup parade, there were far more jerseys with Yzerman, Shanahan and McCarty in the crowd than Datsyuk and Lidstrom.

That might seem like a sad commentary, but again, I believe it's only human nature to want to follow players that look and talk the same as you.

I don't begrudge anyone in Sweden for wanting his favorite team to have more Swedes. Why wouldn't they?

I just want ONE Canadian or American top 6-forward.

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I think the OP hit on the elephant in the room... call it xenophobia if you want, but in general people are more comfortable with guys that sound like them and have names like them. I do think there is something to a slight Euro bias. That said, it's not that Detroiters dislike Euros... they just want them to supplement the NAs on the team. In most sports, balance is the key and I fear Detroiters aren't tuning in as much because there is such a sameness for a lot of the players. For all intents and purposes, Flip/Sammy/Hudler/Kopecky are all the same guy.

OP absolutely nailed it. The problem's even worse than 21% to me because of the economy--as a general rule, TV ratings go up when the economy sucks. Free entertainment.

I think you could even extend it to hockey's popularity in the US--quite simply, there are too many long, hard-to-pronounce names, and hey, if the US isn't the best at it, then it must not be that important. Or so goes the logic of most people. In this context, it's no surprise that football's the most popular major team sport in America, with baseball and basketball next (some foreign influence, but still mostly American), and hockey and soccer (sports the US isn't close to the best in the world at) are last.

My only point of disagreement is that I prefer the European style and wouldn't trade our game for the Bruins' in a billion years, but I realize I'm in a tiny minority of North Americans on that one.

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I watch as many Wings games as I can despite the fact that I have to get up at 2AM and watch the game till 4:30 or so. I don't care if players are from Europe or America. I don't care about fighting either.

And Boston roster? They are having a good year now, but they have done absolutely nothing in playoffs for like 35+ years.

About the Europeans, if you are from USA what's the difference between Canadian and Swedish player? Neither is American.

Edited by Reds4Life

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The european players have always been my favorite players, for whatever reason.

Konstantinov, Larionov, Datsyuk, Fischer, Lidstrom, Kozlov, Fetisov, Hudler.

But I recognize I am not the norm of a Michigan hockey fan.

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The best part of last night's game against Dallas was when Downey, Maltby, Kopecky, Lebda, etc. were throwing their weight around. I remember there was hit after hit after hit. The crowd was loud, people were standing up and blocking the cameras, and even Murph mentioned the crowd standing up .

That's what this team needs, more energy, more fun, and...more Downey!

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So what your all saying is..Mikael Samuelson is the down fall of this team.

:P

Anyone else see Datsyuk fight back last night? I don't think it was an accident that Downey was playing. Remember when we played Colorado last year and Laperriere hit Nick? That game was great not because we won and so-so scored a goal. It was because we became EMOTIONALLY INVESTED in it. There was a reason to watch, and Downey rewarded us by coming to the defense of his captain.

And I agree with YoungGuns, the whole "wait until the playoffs" to watch games is bulls***. Your not a real fan and don't pretend to be one. I didn't pretend to like baseball or the Tigers when they were in the World Series a few years back, so stay away from the team I watch every week.

Edited by Louisville

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