bato 0 Report post Posted February 9, 2009 Who is better, Johan or Dan? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yzermania 156 Report post Posted February 9, 2009 mule, no question. Though I must say Danny gives 100% all the time whereas I think the Mule can get lazy sometimes but Cleary iisn't a great playmaker, doesn'thave great hands or a great shot, he really is just a hard worker and that's what ends up paying off for him, Mule has great talent, sometimes it doesn't seem to get put to use though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reds4Life 51 Report post Posted February 9, 2009 Mule is much better imho. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Secret 304 Report post Posted February 9, 2009 Skills, ability = Franzen Heart, grit, work ethic = Cleary Which is better? If I had to choose one I would likely take Franzen. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
greene709 27 Report post Posted February 9, 2009 Comparing apples and oranges....Pure skill would have to go to Franzen (Cleary never lived up to the most dangerous player on the ice tag that he had in junior). Grit and two way play goes to Cleary. Toughness and ability to play through pain goes to Cleary. I love Franzen but I'm starting to wonder if he's tough enough to fill his role... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SouthernWingsFan 854 Report post Posted February 9, 2009 Franzen, though Cleary is no slouch whatsoever and success as a player isn't always tied to points, as Franzen will usually have a leg up on Cleary regarding this. I'm glad the Wings have both players. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reds4Life 51 Report post Posted February 9, 2009 Skills, ability = Franzen Heart, grit, work ethic = Cleary So how exactly did you determine that Dan has more heart and is working harder that Johan? Let me guess - he's Canadian, right? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeverForgetMac25 483 Report post Posted February 9, 2009 Skills, ability = Franzen Heart, grit, work ethic = Cleary Which is better? If I had to choose one I would likely take Franzen. You also forgot to mention size for Franzen. That being said, I disagree with your assessment that Cleary has more heart, grit and work ethic. Cleary is a more tenacious fore-checker, but the jury's still out on the categories you gave Cleary. That's no shot on Cleary either. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
REDThirteen 0 Report post Posted February 9, 2009 So how exactly did you determine that Dan has more heart and is working harder that Johan? Let me guess - he's Canadian, right? No, he's a Newfoundlander.......even tougher, with more heart than a regular Canadian. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zaxx 0 Report post Posted February 9, 2009 No, he's a Newfoundlander.......even tougher, with more heart than a regular Canadian. My parents are both from Newfoundland (living in Saskatchewan now) and they would be just tickled to read your posting. I on the other hand would consider pulling out some Newfie jokes and having some fun. lol Best comeback on these forums though, good on ya!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Secret 304 Report post Posted February 9, 2009 So how exactly did you determine that Dan has more heart and is working harder that Johan? Let me guess - he's Canadian, right? Hahaha, good one. No I just watch the games and see Dan going to work each and every game. Johan on the other hand can take extended breaks. Look at Cleary's face man, bruised and battered... he's a warrior that just happens to also be Canadian. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Secret 304 Report post Posted February 9, 2009 You also forgot to mention size for Franzen. That being said, I disagree with your assessment that Cleary has more heart, grit and work ethic. Cleary is a more tenacious fore-checker, but the jury's still out on the categories you gave Cleary. That's no shot on Cleary either. Just my opinion. I can't think of a time I've seen Franzen lay down to block a shot, or go and muck in the corner's... well not like Cleary anyway. How often has Cleary played through some well-known injuries. I think he exudes Heart, grit and work ethic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeverForgetMac25 483 Report post Posted February 9, 2009 Just my opinion. I can't think of a time I've seen Franzen lay down to block a shot, or go and muck in the corner's... well not like Cleary anyway. How often has Cleary played through some well-known injuries. I think he exudes Heart, grit and work ethic. While I agree that Cleary tends to be the more tenacious player, I don't necessarily think that equals more heart, grit or work-ethic. Work-ethic is measured both on the ice and off, and none us can say the amount of work any player puts in unless we have an "in". Heart is an intangible that I don't think is fairly given to either one of those two over the other. Perhaps Cleary is a little more gritty, but its not as if Franzen is a cream-puff. The guy stands in front of the net, takes a massive beating and tries to keep himself from getting killed from point shots, all the while re-directing goals with far more skill than Cleary. Again, that's no shot on Cleary...I just think giving those categories to one of those two players over the other is a little too arbitrary. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Secret 304 Report post Posted February 9, 2009 While I agree that Cleary tends to be the more tenacious player, I don't necessarily think that equals more heart, grit or work-ethic. Work-ethic is measured both on the ice and off, and none us can say the amount of work any player puts in unless we have an "in". Heart is an intangible that I don't think is fairly given to either one of those two over the other. Perhaps Cleary is a little more gritty, but its not as if Franzen is a cream-puff. The guy stands in front of the net, takes a massive beating and tries to keep himself from getting killed from point shots, all the while re-directing goals with far more skill than Cleary. Again, that's no shot on Cleary...I just think giving those categories to one of those two players over the other is a little too arbitrary. I'm not saying Franzen is a cream-puff by any means. I do believe that Franzen has alot more skills and tools to play with. I give Cleary the Heart, Grit and Work ethic tags because those are the keys to his success as he does not possess the skills of Franzen. Cleary was high draft pick and failed to meet the expectations initially put on him. He wasn't a player anyone really even wanted... to see him now, as successfull as he is to me shows where his heart is and says alot about his work ethic because he had to earn it not by skills alone but mainly on Heart, Grit and Work ethic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
detroit2009 0 Report post Posted February 9, 2009 I`ll take dan http://www.makemoneythecashcrateway.blogspot.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Z is next captain! 0 Report post Posted February 9, 2009 While Cleary brings a ear the ground, nose to the grindstone attitude everynight, Mule winds hands down. That's a no-brainer Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeverForgetMac25 483 Report post Posted February 9, 2009 I'm not saying Franzen is a cream-puff by any means. I do believe that Franzen has alot more skills and tools to play with. I give Cleary the Heart, Grit and Work ethic tags because those are the keys to his success as he does not possess the skills of Franzen. Cleary was high draft pick and failed to meet the expectations initially put on him. He wasn't a player anyone really even wanted... to see him now, as successfull as he is to me shows where his heart is and says alot about his work ethic because he had to earn it not by skills alone but mainly on Heart, Grit and Work ethic. That makes more sense, and I'm not trying to be argumentative but I also can't fault Franzen for never having the issues Cleary did early on in his career. On the same note, Franzen started off on the Wings in a grinding role and has earned every bit of his line promotion. Bottom line, I guess you can't go wrong either way given that their roles are completely different at this point. In other words, apples to oranges. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Red Crazy 201 Report post Posted February 9, 2009 I'll take Cleary 6 days of the week and twice on Sunday. There is no better quality then heart, Dan will do anything for the team. He blocks shots, hits, grinds in the corner, takes hits to make a pass, hell he even fought Pronger which is two feet taller then him. Franzen is a gifted player as well but Dan brings something to this team that we need more of from all of our guys. Heart. P.S LOve that Newfie comment. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Copenhagen848 58 Report post Posted February 9, 2009 Cleary is much tougher and works very hard. Mule has that scoring touch, but is a bit soft IMO. I'd still take the Mule because he can score some pretty goals. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Secret 304 Report post Posted February 9, 2009 No, he's a Newfoundlander.......even tougher, with more heart than a regular Canadian. Never drink with a Newfie! I learned that one the hard way... they must also have a bigger stronger liver then most regular Canadians. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204 Report post Posted February 9, 2009 Never drink with a Newfie! I learned that one the hard way... they must also have a bigger stronger liver then most regular Canadians. Your damn right they do! Thread mentions Dano and all these Newfie comments, love it As far as the two, I'm bias, obviously. Franzen has the size and talent, but doesnt seem to have the fire or the work ethic Cleary has. I'd take Cleary, but Franzen is a great player too, and when he wants too, can absolutely dominate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikiemike24 0 Report post Posted February 9, 2009 although franzen has a certain scoring touch, cleary is the better all around player. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cusimano_brothers 1,655 Report post Posted February 10, 2009 No, he's a Newfoundlander.......even tougher, with more heart than a regular Canadian. One of the reasons. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ComradeWasabi 109 Report post Posted February 10, 2009 I think Franzen has the better pure skills and ability, but I think Danny outworks him night in, night out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cusimano_brothers 1,655 Report post Posted February 10, 2009 After seeing him play, I imagined Franzen would be a good fit for Holmstrom's role with the Club; in front of the net, making life miserable for the opposing goalie. But, every winning team has to find a player like Cleary, if they expect to compete with the "elite". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
