• Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

Sign in to follow this  
Guest GordieSid&Ted

Mike Green, are we looking at a new Norris Winner

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

Mike Green leads ALL NHL Dmen in Giveaways. Hes 3rd overall in the NHL in giveaways with 61.

25 years ago there was a guy on the Oilers who was widely considered a defensive liability (Mike Bossy called him a pylon) but he would score at will.............and he could skate like the wind.

Paul Coffey won two consecutive Norris trophies..............simply by threatening Bobby Orr's records (and coming within 2 goals of becoming the first defenceman to score 50). Both years that he won...........he led all NHL defensemen in giveaways. Randy Carlyle won a Norris trophy by leading all NHL D-men in points and giveaways AND was a -16.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
First off, I'd take Nick over anyone if I had 1 game. But it's hard to argue the talent that is Mike Green.

19 goals, 46 points in just 41 games! +21

Right now, at 36 points and less than 30 games to play Nick will need to average almost a point a game just to crack the 60 point mark, which would be relatively low for him.

I don't think anyone would argue Nick isn't the best defender in the league. But we also know the Norris is one of those flukey awards, like the Selke, that doesn't always go to the right guy. I think it's safe to say during his streak, nobody has really challenged Nick. But that's because Nick's numbers have been there on the offensive side.

If he finishes 5th, 6th, 7th in scoring and Mike Green picks up 70+ points and 20+ goals, with his +/-, I think it'll be hard for him not to win it. I don't see Markov overtaking him. I don't see Wideman getting the recognition. Souray won't win it. Boyle? I doubt it. Rafalski? How could you pick him over Green should the numbers remain close?

I'd rather have the Cup than the Norris of course. Just wanted to hear some thoughts.

Who do you think would win the Norris if the season ended today?

Who do you think will win it if everybody in the hunt continues at their current pace?

I know who we all think should win it. But that may very well not happen this year.

I gotta admit Green is lookin mighty impressive right now. One more and he's got the record for most games in a row with a goal.........but come on theres no way he plays anywhere near as intelligent as Liddy. Green knows how to score well. Liddy know how to control and PWN the game well. Nick controls the game from the defensemen spot that is a major feat that few have done before.

Green just has a knack for scoring. maybe its cuz he plays in the EASTERN confrence. Dude the Eastern confrence is like the National League in baseball IT SUCKS

Any way, Lidstrom is a way better player Green is a more likely choice for the award though I gotta admit. Talk to me once your a hockey genius Green

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Green should win.

He's only 23 y.o. and he seems like the most perspective D of league.

Yea, maybe he's not the best defenceman, but you know - there is an OD, there is a DD. Why not?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have to admit that a lot of D-men have stepped up this year. Maybe Lidstrom is wearing down a bit. Guys like Green, Chara, Boyle, etc. are all having very good seasons. Nick has given many great years to the Wings, but this year he's not a Norris winner (at this point). If he goes on a tear then he's got a great shot. Gotta respect the other D-men having a great year though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Green should win.

He's only 23 y.o. and he seems like the most perspective D of league.

Yea, maybe he's not the best defenceman, but you know - there is an OD, there is a DD. Why not?

I say no.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest mindfly

And Mike Green is now in the history books... goal in 8th straight game... impressive i must say.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 years ago there was a guy on the Oilers who was widely considered a defensive liability (Mike Bossy called him a pylon) but he would score at will.............and he could skate like the wind.

Paul Coffey won two consecutive Norris trophies..............simply by threatening Bobby Orr's records (and coming within 2 goals of becoming the first defenceman to score 50). Both years that he won...........he led all NHL defensemen in giveaways. Randy Carlyle won a Norris trophy by leading all NHL D-men in points and giveaways AND was a -16.

Different eras, my friend. Defense is more important for every player nowadays. Fifteen, twenty years ago, not playing good defensive hockey as a forward wasn't even an afterthough. Nowadays, its a legitimate knock against a forwards game if they aren't good defensively. Even more so for defenseman.

And, yeah, Paul Coffey won two consecutive trophies because he put up an average of 130 points both seasons. Green will be lucky to hit 80 points.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Different eras, my friend. Defense is more important for every player nowadays. Fifteen, twenty years ago, not playing good defensive hockey as a forward wasn't even an afterthough. Nowadays, its a legitimate knock against a forwards game if they aren't good defensively. Even more so for defenseman.

And, yeah, Paul Coffey won two consecutive trophies because he put up an average of 130 points both seasons. Green will be lucky to hit 80 points.

I put some stock in takeaways and giveaways but let's not get too carried away, it is a "second page" stat. That being said I look more at the giveaway/takeaway differential then I do at the two stats individually. If you are a star and getting lots of ice time and taking risks and coughing up the puck a ton then I want to see you on the stat on the other side as well where you are stealing the puck alot. As a defencemen, Scott Neidermayer would be a prime example......sure he has alot of giveaways but he has more takeaways. Souray and O'Donnell are two of the worst.......so I think it has it's merits. It shows you are responsible with the puck and make good decisions.Lets be honest, offensive numbers count bigtime in this award. It is supposed to go to the best all round in the position- not the best defensively. If it was Craig Ludwig would have won one for blocking shots and Scott Stevens would have a truckload of them.

Edited by Coolio Mendez

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Most of you posters knocking Green, have you guys ever watched him play? He's very good defensively (he's noted around the league for his positional play). The primary knock against him is that he's not the greatest of skaters, but he makes up for that with his shot and positional play.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
O'Connell was a solid d-man, I liked him.

Mike Green *is* this year's Norris winner. And let's be honest.... has Lids played like the best d-man in the league this year? No.

Yes. Head and shoulders like usual? No.

There is no handicapping going on. Nick doesn't have to lap the field to be the best.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Most of you posters knocking Green, have you guys ever watched him play? He's very good defensively (he's noted around the league for his positional play). The primary knock against him is that he's not the greatest of skaters, but he makes up for that with his shot and positional play.

He is not very good defensively. He's usually noted for being at times completely braindead with his decision making. He's getting away with it this year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
He is not very good defensively. He's usually noted for being at times completely braindead with his decision making. He's getting away with it this year.

May I ask what games have YOU been watching? Mike Green is NOT badl in his own zone, in fact he has improved considerably this season! Norris is for best "all around" Dman.....Green has been that guy.

Edited by Coolio Mendez

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
May I ask what games have YOU been watching? Mike Green is NOT badl in his own zone, in fact he has improved considerably this season! Norris is for best "all around" Dman.....Green has been that guy.

I watch all of the non-Red-Wing-conflicting Capitals games. I'm a big fan of both Ovi and Feds.

I can assure you- Green's defensive play is horrible. Terrible. Brain dead is definitely a good descriptor of some of his decisions from a defensive stand point.

I think you're getting Green's defensive play confused with Duncan Keith's. Only one of the two is highly thought of as a positional player. The other is a reckless 4th forward who's got a damn impressive shot and set of offensive instincts (well not an offensive defenseman's instincts).

Edit: (Torry) Spelling

Edited by Drake_Marcus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
May I ask what games have YOU been watching? Mike Green is NOT badl in his own zone, in fact he has improved considerably this season! Norris is for best "all around" Dman.....Green has been that guy.

All-around is exactly right. But defense comes first. I'll concede that Green's offensive ability is on par with Lidstrom's defensive ability. But Nick's offense is significantly better than Green's defense. All-around, Nick is better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
All-around is exactly right. But defense comes first. I'll concede that Green's offensive ability is on par with Lidstrom's defensive ability. But Nick's offense is significantly better than Green's defense. All-around, Nick is better.

I'm not comparing careers, I'm talking 08-09 season. This year, Wideman and Chara have BOTH been better than Lidstrom. I'd also have Boyle ahead of Lidstrom.

Amongst defencemen-

-Lidstrom is tied for 9th in goals

- tied for 7th in assists

- tied for 6th in +/-

Yet you think he is a possible frontrunner? At this pace, he will be lucky to finish in the top 5 in voting!

Edited by Coolio Mendez

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This year? I have to disagree Wideman and Chara have BOTH been better than Lidstrom this year! I'd also have Boyle ahead of Lidstrom!

Amongst defencemen-

-Lidstrom is tied for 9th in goals

- tied for 7th in assists

- tied for 6th in +/-

Yet you think he is a possible frontrunner? At this pace, he will be lucky to finish in the top 5 in voting!

You'll need to adjust those for tonight's games.

Playing the stat game, Nick has one fewer point than Wideman and five more than Chara. His +/- is five lower than Wideman and one higher than Chara. They're all in the same neighborhood.

And, with all due respect to Rafalski, neither of those two have been paired with Rafalski for most of the year.

Edited by Heroes of Hockeytown

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Those are three of the less-important stats when considering the Norris candidates, IMO. First of all, +/- is an absolute joke. Second of all, points are definitely important in considering the Norris winners, but the trophy is still awarded to the best DEFENSEMAN. Sure, the winners usually put up some solid points, but they always have well above average defensive play. Green will not win it this year. Probably soon, but I just can't see it happening. It's like awarding the Selke to Ovechkin; sure, his offense is great! However, he's only mastered half of the skills required to win the trophy.

I'm not positive Lidstrom will win it like years previous. I think a lot of it depends on how the season finishes, and whether his play declines or improves. I think, for sure, he'll be a finalist; if for no other reason, then he'll be a finalist based on reputation alone. However, people are so quick to point out all these other plays for the Norris: Chara, Green, etc. The thing that these guys have in common is that they make themselves noticeable. Green puts up tons of points, Chara hits and has a cannon of a shot. Lidstrom simply goes out, plays shutdown defense against every team's best player, and does it without being noticed. That's what's so respectable about him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
All-around is exactly right. But defense comes first. I'll concede that Green's offensive ability is on par with Lidstrom's defensive ability. But Nick's offense is significantly better than Green's defense. All-around, Nick is better.

Tell that to Scott Stevens a hard hitter who personified the defense-first mentality, Craig Ludwig who was well-known for his shot-blocking ability. Both these guys combined have a total of zero Norris's.

How come Mike Komiskarek get any considerations? He one of the best if not best at blocking shots, plays the PK, great in his own end and a fierce hitter. His play defines defense. It's no secret if you have the numbers your getting the vote.

Edited by Coolio Mendez

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this