Worried About Hudler

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Hudler at $3M, means either Franzen walks for free or Val gets traded. Cannot pay Hossa $6M (if that is what it turns out to be) Val $3M and Huds $3M. Then you can forget about re-siging Leino, and bringing up Helm/Ericsson/Howard because there is only $9.4M available. So Hudler signs for $3M and you lose Leino to F/A and Ericsson/Howard to waiver. Yeah, Hudler is WELL worth keeping for that price. I have said all along that Val has to be traded in order to re-sign Hossa and either Huds or Franzen, but neither of which would sign for $3M. If Huds wants more than $2M (which he is worth considering Filpulla's contract) he walks. Now if you let Franzen walk and trade Val, then you could give Hudler $3M, that would wash with Val's contract. But you need that extra $3.4M to resign Leino and bring upi Helm/Ericsson and Howard (or re-sign Conklin.) Icing the best team means re-signing Hossa. Franzen and/or Hudler should see this and sign for a discount. Either way, Val just may be gone as well.

Duh. The whole point here is that the Wings keep Hudler over one Franzen or Filppula. And, is it just me, or has the board become infatuated with the idea that making financial space for a forward can only come from moving a forward? And I don't advocate keeping Filppula ahead of any of our UFAs, for the record.

Not to mention, Howard makes less than Conklin, so the Wings don't lose him to the waiver wire. And the Wings can make space for Ericsson by moving Lebda or Meech. Try a little creative thinking.

Edited February 14, 2009 by YoungGuns1340

[YoungGuns1340 1]

For one game now?

The other 17 goals that Hudler has were pure luck, don't you know.

[VM1138 1,921]

Duh. The whole point here is that the Wings keep Hudler over one Franzen or Filppula. And, is it just me, or has the board become infatuated with the idea that making financial space for a forward can only come from moving a forward? And I don't advocate keeping Filppula ahead of any of our UFAs, for the record.

Not to mention, Howard makes less than Conklin, so the Wings don't lose him to the waiver wire. And the Wings can make space for Ericsson by moving Lebda or Meech. Try a little creative thinking.

That will happen anyways. But Flip and Hudler, being comparable, means one of them leaves. I'd prefer it to be Flip, as much as I like him.

Lebda will be gone, Meech will replace him because of his past experience on the Wings. Ericcson might be brought up full-time, but I doubt it.

Howard is not what we all hoped he would be, from what I'm reading, so I'd rather lose him and shift to grooming one of our other goalie prospects who seem to have higher career potential.

[Lidstromrules16 7]

Lets go Ved Vings!!!

[C-TownWing 0]

I defer to wings mangament, as more times than not..... they get it right.

My concern: Most of the mistakes they do make involve overvaluing big guys (Hatcher, Bertuzzi). I'm worried that this means Franzen over Hudler.

My other concern: Are we really talking about going into next year with a G tandem of Ozzie and Howard? Yikes. I'm hoping we can find an extra million or so in this mess somewhere--where would we be without Conklin this year? It probably can't be him, he's due a raise, but a proven capable backup would be nice.

Lots of tough decisions to make. I don't envy Kenny's position right now.

[KrazyGangsta 79]

My concern: Most of the mistakes they do make involve overvaluing big guys (Hatcher, Bertuzzi). I'm worried that this means Franzen over Hudler.

My other concern: Are we really talking about going into next year with a G tandem of Ozzie and Howard? Yikes. I'm hoping we can find an extra million or so in this mess somewhere--where would we be without Conklin this year? It probably can't be him, he's due a raise, but a proven capable backup would be nice.

Lots of tough decisions to make. I don't envy Kenny's position right now.

Let's hope Howard=Ward ... at least for his first year

[Winther 6]

I do hear you on the potential with Huds. I would hate to see him go as well. With that said, I defer to wings mangament, as more times than not..... they get it right. I don't know that we have seen the full potential in either player. If Franzen can stay healthy? They may be a big if, or maybe the guy stays healthy from here on out. Who knows really? It will be interesting to analyze their careers from here on out (would be nice if the analysis came while both wearing the winged wheel). I do know that it is somewhat of a crapshoot. Who would have thought Lapointe would have fizzled like he did? Who would have thought Feds would basically be a solid contributor after he left? You just never know, but it is fun to speculate. BTW, the only way I thought you could watch was through the NHL.com, and I don't have the money for that. Is there somewhere else your are talking about???? I would really love to be able to see more of the games, and any info would be greatly appreciated. The winters are cold, boring, and dark here with nothing but hockey to sooth the soul. I do get to attend alot of games here, and my kid plays. Actually got to see Kopecky play alot when he was in the E. (Idaho Steelheads)

Oh, if Franzen could bottle up what he did towards the end of last year then I don't think we would even be having this friendly debate. That was something special.

Appreciate the friendly debate my friend.

www.myp2p.eu (altough i dot think that site works atm, because of legal precidings against the ite owners)

http://www.atdhe.net (this site is the best, only thing you need is media player, good quality and almost every game there)

[shoe 165]

Ive learned this especially when Yzerman retired and Shanahan signed in New York.

As much as you hate them to leave, someone will fill their spot, and you will be just as happy when they score, hit, pass, make a save, what ever.

I really like Hudler too and Franzen is my current fav player on this team, I hope Holland played lots of stuff as many people as you can into the car games when he was in school because we will need some creative thinking to keep these home grown talents. If we cant keep them then someone will be brought up or signed or traded for to do that. and we will probably watch their carers with interest because in our eyes we wont forget when they were red wings.

[russianswede919293 95]

Given the option of Filppula or Hudler I pick Hudler....to answer some of these posts.

Given the option of Franzen or Hudler I choose Franzen, only because I don't know how much Holmstrom has left in the tank with all these Hernias...

Given the concept of RFA, don't think it will happen. When a player accepts arbitration they cannot take an RFA form anymore. Last year I feel that the arbitration with Filppula was purely a formality and his way of saying he wasn't going anywhere. I think both sides felt a deal would be agreed upon before arbitration.

I see the same thing happening with Huds. The Wings will offer him arbitration as a formality, and then he will accept, no offer sheet threats there now, and that they will agree before the arbitration hearing.

I see him getting a 2 year 3 million per year contract... I call it now.

[LIDSTROM-YZERMAN4PRESIDENT 0]

You never know, Kenny Hollan has worked some magic before

Edited February 14, 2009 by LIDSTROM-YZERMAN4PRESIDENT

[Drake_Marcus 890]

I would hate to see Huds go as well but he strikes me as another Martin Lapointe. Not so much in playing style but moreso that he's a system player and I don't see him being as successful somewhere else. If he does decide to leave, I hope he succeeds just as long as it's not against the Wings.

I disagree... today's NHL is tailored to allow small, skilled players to succeed.

That being said, I don't think he's ready to be the #1 guy somewhere. I'm a huge Hudler fan, but I honestly think he's really not ready to be counted on as the major goal scorer on a sub-par team. Hudler's main strength is his ability to produce points with minimum minutes... he's the ultimate depth scorer.

[#19forPresident! 1]

I've already adjusted myself to the idea of him playing in another uni. Not guaranteeing the farm that he's going to get a rich offer that management won't match, but if I were betting 5 bucks that the way I'd go.

[pokemonbreeder18 6]

sadlly Huds will never be a 1st or 2nd liner....but he is probably the best 3rd or 4th liner in the NHL. But that is what he has always been, a solid 3rd or 4th linesman. I hope we resign him because he has great potential. Also ever sence they won the cup he has been more and more productive.

[Opie 308]

How so? Florida is a playoff team right now, and LA is making their own little push. Adding Hudler would only make them better teams, which would push them higher in the standings. Its not like we're getting 09 picks here.

[sarcasm] You and your logic can go screw yourselves[/sarcasm]

Ok my point is valid it would be sweet to have high picks, however my choice of teams to use for an example sucked walrus balls!!

But other than that it was an OK post, sort of!!

[eva unit zero 271]

That will happen anyways. But Flip and Hudler, being comparable, means one of them leaves. I'd prefer it to be Flip, as much as I like him.

Lebda will be gone, Meech will replace him because of his past experience on the Wings. Ericcson might be brought up full-time, but I doubt it.

Howard is not what we all hoped he would be, from what I'm reading, so I'd rather lose him and shift to grooming one of our other goalie prospects who seem to have higher career potential.

Lebda may be traded for picks/prospects because he is $650k and is the 8th best defenseman who currently has a contract for next season and would have to clear waivers to be sent to the AHL.

Conklin will likely be signed by another team as a UFA to a multi-year contract above $3.5m per season because he has performed well, so for anyone on this board to even DREAM of keeping him is ridiculous. It's almost a given that one of Howard or Larsson will tandem with Osgood next season. We'll say Howard start as he has been the "goalie of the future" for a couple years now.

So far, we've got 7 D for a cap hit of $22,833,333 and 2 G for a cap hit of $2,133,334, totalling up to 9 players with a cap hit of $24,966,667. Based on the $56.7m cap maximum for this season, that leaves $31,733,333 in cap space for the Wings to sign at least 12 forwards. The roster limit is 23 players, and we've already accounted for 9 non-forwards, so they can sign up to 14 forwards with the remaining cap space.

As far as forwards, Meech can serve double-duty as the 7th defenseman and 13th forward to save cap space. This allows us to put together a 21-player roster and we only need to consider the 12 regular forwards, starting of course with those who are already signed.

The forwards already signed for next season line up as follows:

Datsyuk $6,700,000

Zetterberg $6,083,333

Filppula $3,000,000

Cleary $2,800,000

Holmstrom $2,250,000

Draper $1,583,333

Maltby $883,333

So we have seven forwards signed for next season who cannot be sent to the minors without clearing waivers. The total cap hit for those seven forwards is $23,299,999, leaving $8,433,334 to fill the final five forward spots. Also left to fill the final five forward spots from the current roster?

Marian Hossa

Jiri Hudler

Johan Franzen

Mikael Samuelsson

Tomas Kopecky

Kopecky can be expected to sign for the league minimum of $525k. I don't expect the Wings to be able to find a better player than Kopecky for that price, so expect him on the roster. Leaving $7,904,334 to sign the other four forwards. Doesn't seem terribly possible, does it?

Samuelsson can likely be retained for something like a 3-year deal with a cap hit of $1.375m per season, which is significantly less than what it would cost to acquire a replacement. This leaves $6,533,334 cap space to sign three more forwards, including whichever of Hossa/Hudler/Franzen are retained. So some possible situations are:

1) Hossa is not retained. Hudler, Franzen, and Leino or Helm are the last three forwards.

2) The Wings make a trade to clear cap space involving one or more of Filppula/Cleary/Kronwall/Stuart and are able to retain Hossa, Hudler, and Franzen as well as replace the traded players with young players such as Leino, Helm, and Kindl or with players acquired in the trade who are better players but have a cap hit close to the league minimum.

3) Hossa, Hudler, and Franzen all sign for significantly less than their "market value" and the Wings are able to fit them within their cap constraints.

Most likely, we will be looking at Option #2, with Filppula being traded for picks and/or prospects/players who can be sent to the minors without clearing waivers.

So open now, assuming Flip alone was traded: 4 forward slots, $9,533,334. This allows the Wings to sign Hossa for the same cap hit as Zetterberg, leaving 3 forward slots and $3,450,001. Let's look at the likely lines for a second to consider what moves need to be made.

If Hudler is signed and Franzen is not:

Datsyuk/Zetterberg/Holmstrom

Leino/Hudler/Hossa

Cleary/Helm/Samuelsson

Maltby/Draper/Kopecky

Meech

No Filppula, but two very lethal scoring lines at the top and the third line is a strong two-way line.

If Franzen is signed and Hudler is not:

Holmstrom/Datsyuk/Hossa

Franzen/Zetterberg/Samuelsson

Cleary/Helm/Leino

Maltby/Draper/Kopecky

Meech

ZDH are split up, and the way the lines work out just doesn't seem to be as solid as the previous unit.

If both are signed:

Datsyuk/Zetterberg/Holmstrom

Leino/Hudler/Hossa

Cleary/Franzen/Samuelsson

Maltby/Draper/Kopecky

Meech

Despite the fact I would rather have Franzen on one of the top two lines, and would rather have Helm in the lineup than Meech, Franzen centering a checking unit that is also capable of being an offensive threat while Leino serves as the second winger on a Hudler/Hossa line is a better option, and Meech makes a better thirteenth forward than Helm does.

I would rather not have to trade Flip, but that doesn't seem terribly realistic. The ideal situation would be that the Wings could trade Cleary and Stuart and get past those no-trade clauses. Trading Stuart might result in Lebda staying around for depth, with a difference of $3.1m in cap space opened up.