Filppula has the most Even Strength points after Z, D, Hossa

[egroen 384]

I recall characters like Steve Yzerman at the end of his career making 6 and 8 million per season despite having 40-60 pt seasons, which surely some of the people arguing about points per game should suggest he ain't worth it. But considering a player's contributions don't have to be in points (which was never the reason Flip was sold on staying on the team instead of being placed down in GR again), I swear some people are barking up the wrong tree.

Personally I dunno why we're saying who is better than who. He is part of the reason this team won the cup last year. Who gives a flying f*** who he is better than on the team as long as he puts out an effort every game and contributes in more ways than one. The way the salary cap system is set up is contracts are a yearly basis, not entirely contributions as they can't solely be measured by points alone. Plus, this team could not afford, with or without a cap, a roster entirely comprised of Hossa's, Datsyuk's, and Zetterberg's.

This Flip bashing is ******* retarded.

I'll resist the temptation to blow a Filppula-Yzerman comparison out of context, but Stevie was not being paid that while the Wings had a salary cap, and I think it is fair to say he brought a few more intangibles to the table than Filppula.

It's all about the salary cap - and I have a feeling the Wings' braintrust have similar arguments like this on a daily basis (except maybe without the name calling... maybe.) To just keep the same roster year-in-and-year-out in a salary cap world, as long as every one is putting in an effort, is to get left behind. I swear, I think some here would not even consider trading Maltby if it meant we could keep Hossa.

If Filppula, Franzen and Hudler all cost $3 million - who is more important to keep?

What if Franzen is slightly more and Hudler slightly less?

To not ask and weigh those questions is a huge mistake, and one I doubt the Wings management is making. Yes, we are just spinning our wheels here, but it is fun.

[Frozen-Man 144]

I'll resist the temptation to blow a Filppula-Yzerman comparison out of context, but Stevie was not being paid that while the Wings had a salary cap, and I think it is fair to say he brought a few more intangibles to the table than Filppula.

It's all about the salary cap - and I have a feeling the Wings' braintrust have similar arguments like this on a daily basis (except maybe without the name calling... maybe.) To just keep the same roster year-in-and-year-out in a salary cap world, as long as every one is putting in an effort, is to get left behind. I swear, I think some here would not even consider trading Maltby if it meant we could keep Hossa.

If Filppula, Franzen and Hudler all cost $3 million - who is more important to keep?

What if Franzen is slightly more and Hudler slightly less?

To not ask and weigh those questions is a huge mistake, and one I doubt the Wings management is making. Yes, we are just spinning our wheels here, but it is fun.

:tounge:

[sureWhyNot 19]

I recall characters like Steve Yzerman at the end of his career making 6 and 8 million per season despite having 40-60 pt seasons, which surely some of the people arguing about points per game should suggest he ain't worth it. But considering a player's contributions don't have to be in points (which was never the reason Flip was sold on staying on the team instead of being placed down in GR again), I swear some people are barking up the wrong tree.

Personally I dunno why we're saying who is better than who. He is part of the reason this team won the cup last year. Who gives a flying f*** who he is better than on the team as long as he puts out an effort every game and contributes in more ways than one. The way the salary cap system is set up is contracts are a yearly basis, not entirely contributions as they can't solely be measured by points alone. Plus, this team could not afford, with or without a cap, a roster entirely comprised of Hossa's, Datsyuk's, and Zetterberg's.

This Flip bashing is ******* retarded.

A thread is made titled "Fillipula is our 4th best forward."

People point out that Fillipula is far from the 4th best forward on this team.

You then claim the "Flip bashing is ******* retarded."

Maybe I missed something here.

[elriqo28 2]

Filppula is the 4th best two way forward on the Detroit Red Wings Roster. I've seen enough uneducated hockey fans around here trying to run this guy down because of one single reason. The "stat sheet."So im going to take a few minutes out of my time to try and educate you folks a little bit.

I think we can all agree that Flips has had the least 1st/2nd line ice time out of Huds/Cleary/Franzen/Sammy. Agree? Yup, its true and all of them players are the only forwards above Flip in terms of points besides the big 3 and homer. Note, I do realize Flip gets more even strength ice time. Its for a reason too. Babs trusts him on the ice more than he trusts the guys above that i listed.

Now, I don't actually have any facts to back this statement up but im willing to say that a very large portion of Huds/Cleary/Franzen/Sammys points have came from being on the 1st/2nd line. Its kind of hard not to get points when your on the ice with any portion of the big 3. f*** i could put up some points on the Wings if i was playing with them guys.

Some of you might say, "well, if hes so good why doesn't Babs ever player him on the 2nd line?" Simple. Its not because Babs doesn't think hes good enough to play there. It's because Flip is our 3rd best pivot. Hes the only player we have capable of centering out the 3rd line. Flips is the heart and sole of our third line and he will be the heart of our 2nd line once we loose some players. As of now we got Huds/Cleary/Franzen that can be playing a second line role. These players aren't nearly as important to making our third line a threat as Flips.

Another reason Flips doesn't have as many points as you guys assume a 3 mill year player should have. I don't know if you guys get off the internet and actually watch the Wings game. If you do watch the games you might notice Flip spends alot of time on the ice against other teams top lines. It does make things a little harder for you when constantly on the ice with the worlds premier players. Take that into slight consideration on top of all this.

Now lets talk a little bit about Flips game. He is also our 3rd best defensive forward. If i was to count how many times a game Flips creates turnovers compared to the guys i have been comparing him to, it would be a blowout. You guys needs to watch the games really close and critically. Watch more than just the guy with the puck. Watch like your the coach. His positioning is superior, he forces guys to make bad decisions out there every single shift. The puck doesn't always get turned over to Flip as a result of his great defensive skills but to be turned over to another Wing on the ice. Result, some of you casual viewers may not understand that indeed the reasoning behind why puck got turned over was in fact a direct result of what Flip did.

wow, thanks for the education, because you have endless knowledge! We shall all bow to you. what a dipsh*t

[Guest EZBAKETHAGANGSTA]

I thought it was more like this:

Please explain to me how you two are not being hypocritical right now? I don't see how I was trying to appear "Tough", just fed up of dumbass bulls*** being fed to me by morons. You two are no better than me, and while I could go on and make up a ton of tough s*** about myself, well I'm confident enough in my real life too realise that theres no point. We will never meet in real life, so what the f***s the point? I'm secure enough to belive that I can kick around 85% of the male population's ass, but seeing as that wont prove anything, I'll stfu. I suggest you do the same, or else people will group you in with the "e-thugs" like me. If I'm guilty of unintetionally giving offa tough persona, your guilty of intetionally giving off one of an arrogant mod, who thinks because they can make jpeg's their hilarious. Congratulation Hypocrite, I hope that made your day better, and made you feel totally awesome.

Btw my name is a joke, I figured it was obvious, but You can never tell on these boreds.

[sureWhyNot 19]

Strangely enough, those stats actually make a good argument for Flip being our #4 or #5 forward. Main thing he needs to improve is his physicality.

First of all YOU ARE wrong about Cleary getting more ice time - so write it down if you have to.

That said - how you come to the conclusion those numbers make a good argument for him being the 4th or 5th best forward are beyond me:

- He is 9th among Red Wing forwards in total point production.

- Only Zetterberg, Franzen, Datsyuk and Hossa see more ES ice time then him (not to mention he has played 17 more games then Franzen. This isn't a knock against Flip, rather it points out that total ice time on the year is not even close between Flip and Franzen. Flip has had leaps and bounds more total ice time on the year)

I mean it wouldn't be that far off to sum it up by saying he doesn't posses much takeaway ability, he doesn't block shots, he doesn't hit, he doesn't score, he's decent on our second PK unit (our PK is 27th in league, so being decent on the 2nd PK unit ain't saying much), his shooting percentage (for those of you out there who go on and on about him not shooting very much) is absolutely abysmal (12th among Red Wing forwards).

I am not saying we should trade him, I am not saying anything about what he makes - I am simply pointing out that Flip is no where close to the 4th best forward on the Red Wings. I did not start a thread looking for an argument (which would be the case if I created a new thread titled "Flip is far from the 4th best forward on the Red Wings") I am simply illustrating the reality of Flip and his standing among RW forwards.

Oh ya, I almost forgot: Flip is not even deserving to be in the same sentence as Steve Yzerman, let alone compared too in any way, shape, or for (this includes salary.) Yzerman did more for this team then little Val could possibly fathom, let alone replicate.

Edited February 18, 2009 by sureWhyNot

[Guest EZBAKETHAGANGSTA]

OK - I didn't want to get into name calling and personal insults but if you want too, fine by me.

One of us "stat sheet boys" proves that you are either a complete idiot, or realize that by any measure, of close to any category in the game of hockey Fillipula is no where near our 4th best forward. I did read your post, and quite frankly it was a long winded statement that acknowledged the fact you had no stats to back up anything you claimed, but still really, really like the guy. You used some bizarre rationale, and your rhetoric was clearly driven by personal feelings about Flip and the rest of the Red Wings forwards.

Flip does not have the same numbers as the rest of the guys BECAUSE HE IS NOT AS GOOD --or should I say, he is not as good as 6-8 of the other Red Wing forwards. Period. You claim I am unintelligent, yet you're the swift thinker who makes claims while admitting you don't have the stats to back you up, while at the same time attempting to downplay the most significant measure of any professional sports player - raw numbers. I don't know if you tell yourself these things to feel better, or if you truly believe you are correct - either way I feel bad for you.

Flip gets average, if not a little above average ice time per game in terms of forwards on the Red Wings. You can't deny this, you can keep trying to downplay the facts such as this, as well as the people who cite them in making argument as "useless stats", or "stat sheet boys", but in reality - they speak louder then any ludicrous statement claiming Flip is the 4th best forward on the Red Wings (two way, or offensively - it doesn't matter.)

You want to talk about the small things that goes into a players worth - fine, let go ahead and do that:

* Fillipula is 4th out of 4 Red Wing centers in % of face offs won. Flip's FO% won is 51.1% (42nd among NHL centers). The other Red Wings centers have a higher % of face offs won. Draper (61.2%), Datsyuk (57.2%) and Zetterberg (54.4%).

* Fillipula is 5th among Red Wing forwards in even strength ice time per game at 13:36. Zetterberg (14:33), Franzen (14:14), Datsyuk (14:02), Hossa (13:57) are the four forwards who receive more even strength ice time per game then Flip.

* Fillipula is 5th among Red Wing forwards in terms of Short Handed Time on Ice/per game at 1:46. Draper (2:12), Cleary (2:04), Zetterberg (1:54) and Datsyuk (1:48) all see more time on the penalty kill per game then Fillipula.

* Fillipula is 12th among Red Wings forwards in total hits this year with 24. Kopecky (84), Draper (80), Franzen (70), Cleary (68), Samuelsson (62), Hossa (58), Datsyuk (56), Zetterberg (44), Holmstrom (39), Maltby (36) and Helm (29) all are ahead of Flip in total hits on the year.

* Fillipula is tied in 7th among Red Wing forwards in blocked shots with 14 total blocked shots on the year. Datsyuk (23), Zetterberg (22), Cleary (21), Franzen (16), Maltby and Sammy with 15 a piece and Draper (his 7th place counterpart) has 14.

* Fillipula is tied in 6th place amond Red Wing forwards in total takeaways with 13 on the year. He shares 6th place with Draper and Franzen who also have 13. Datsyuk (66), Hossa (35), Zetterberg (29), Samuelsson (17) and Maltby (14) all sit above Flip.

* I will reiterate - Fillipula is 12th among Red Wing forwards in shooting percentage with S% of 7.3. Leino (25.0), Holmstrom (23.7), Hudler (17.6), McCarty (16.7), Datsyuk (14.9), Franzen (14.7), Hossa (13.5), Maltby (11.1), Zetterberg (9.9), Samuelsson (9.5) and Cleary (9.1) are all higher then Flip.

* One category Flip cracks the top three among Red Wings forwards is in total Penalty minutes - he has 32 PIM on the year. The only forwards with more PIM then Flip are Hossa (40) and Samuelsson (36).

So, I think this should be sufficient enough to disprove, at the least, the notion you put forward claiming Flip as being the 4th best forward (two way or one way, it doesn't really matter with this much stacked against him) on the team.

Feel free to scoff statistics and those who use them. Not only will you continue to look silly, but you will sound more and more like one of those lunatics who refuses to believe in the theory of evolution, and simply disregards all the science and experts who say otherwise.

But - if this stat thing is so easy (I believe you summed it up as being able to use Google) then you shouldn't have a problem finding statistics to prove your point - correct?

[CloudConnected 0]

Recently, I've been reading on here that we should trade Flip if it means we can keep Franzen and Hossa. I don't know if this thread is an attempt at a justification of us keeping Val around, but the whole argument of Val being our 4th best forward is moot.

This is a salary-capped NHL. 3 million a year for a 3rd line center is too much when you have Datsyuk and Zetterberg wrapped up long term. If you have a top talent in Hossa on the table, a defensively responsible, finishing power forward in Franzen sitting there, a sniper who is good in traffic like Hudler as a UFA, it's illogical to spend that much on a third line center. Especially when it seems Helm, Leino and Abdelkader can step in and give solid 3rd line minutes. Flip is tradable, and you know what? The Wings won't be kicking themselves for pulling the trigger on that deal. We can live without him.

Now for the argument that Flip is our 4th best forward, I have to disagree. I've watched 80% to 90% of our games so far on the season, and you don't notice Flip every night. That's fine, no one can bring it every night, it's a long season. But you don't notice him in the play a whole heckuva lot. I notice Cleary more than Flip out there. I notice Hudler more out there. I notice Helm more out there. Hell, I notice Sammy more out there! (and not for the bad plays!) Flip just doesn't carry the play. It doesn't mean he's a bad player by any means, but he's not very dangerous. He doesn't take the puck away from the other team a lot, he doesn't lug the puck a ton, he doesn't shoot very well, he's not physical, he doesn't play as well in traffic as most of our other players. He's not our 4th best forward. Franzen is better, Cleary is more all-around, Hudler is much better offensively... It's just a stretch to say he's our 4th best forward.

[Frozen-Man 144]

Please explain to me how you two are not being hypocritical right now? I don't see how I was trying to appear "Tough", just fed up of dumbass bulls*** being fed to me by morons. You two are no better than me, and while I could go on and make up a ton of tough s*** about myself, well I'm confident enough in my real life too realise that theres no point. We will never meet in real life, so what the f***s the point? I'm secure enough to belive that I can kick around 85% of the male population's ass, but seeing as that wont prove anything, I'll stfu. I suggest you do the same, or else people will group you in with the "e-thugs" like me. If I'm guilty of unintetionally giving offa tough persona, your guilty of intetionally giving off one of an arrogant mod, who thinks because they can make jpeg's their hilarious. Congratulation Hypocrite, I hope that made your day better, and made you feel totally awesome.

Btw my name is a joke, I figured it was obvious, but You can never tell on these boreds.

It has nothing to do with your name, it has to do with the fact that almost every post you belittle, insult, and demean anyone who happens to disagree with you. I didn't post the funny pictures because I disagree with you but because you act like everyone who disagrees with you is stupid, has no right to be on this forum, and isn't really a Wings fan. You refuse to let anyone disagree with you without your calling them stupid and acting as if they cannot have differing opinions. I could care less if you disagree with me or anyone else, what sucks and warrants (in my opinion) the pictures is the way you treat those who disagree with you.

[dallas27 7]

Bottom line:

Not trading Flip is going to make next year's team worse. Mr. Holland has to worry about inking Hossa, Franzen, Hudler and let's not forget about Leino. Whom are all better than Flip. Shedding Flip's salary will make signing at least two or three of those names feasible given some "hometown discounts." Nothing against him, I'm sure he'll turn out to be a fine hockey player, it's just the Wings do not need him more than they need the names above.

And spare me the defensive/two-way forward bit. Perhaps the biggest part of being a good defensive player is being in the right position, which you can teach as previously stated.

As I've said before, Flip is a jack-of-all trades player. Does everything well but nothing exceptional.

[therock48880 14]

For those who are dismissing Flip's defensive abilities as meaningless and using scoring stats to show he's useless I've got a hypothetical situation for you.

Game 7, Stanley Cup Finals against the Pens, 1 minute left in a tie game. Homer gets a goalie interference call as he crosses center ice. Pens have last line change, who do you want as your center against Crosby, Hudler or Flip?

Obviously hypothetical and in jest, but to disregard Flip's defensive play to quote nothing but offensive numbers is silly.

However, if trading him means keeping Hossa, Franzen, and Hudler, then I'm all for it.

[eva unit zero 271]

For those who are dismissing Flip's defensive abilities as meaningless and using scoring stats to show he's useless I've got a hypothetical situation for you.

Game 7, Stanley Cup Finals against the Pens, 1 minute left in a tie game. Homer gets a goalie interference call as he crosses center ice. Pens have last line change, who do you want as your center against Crosby, Hudler or Flip?

Obviously hypothetical and in jest, but to disregard Flip's defensive play to quote nothing but offensive numbers is silly.

However, if trading him means keeping Hossa, Franzen, and Hudler, then I'm all for it.

If Flip is traded, it is so that the Wings can keep Hossa. You have obviously indicated that Hudler would be retained. So either Hudler is centering Hossa, or DZH has been split up and Datsyuk is centering Hossa and Holmstrom with Zetterberg centering Hudler and Leino. Assuming the second situation, you have the option of matching either Datsyuk or Zetterberg. To finally match your point...do you really think Pittsburgh is going to put Crosby's line out against Leino/Hudler/Hossa? I think Pittsburgh would be more concerned with stopping DZH in the situation where Hudler is playing center...Crosby would probably get matched against Draper or Helm because they want him to be able to score, and you need the puck for that.

EDIT: And also...your situation requires the Pens to outperform the Wings in the regular season next year, which is unlikely.

Edited February 18, 2009 by eva unit zero

[Z and D for the C 712]

- He is 9th among Red Wing forwards in total point production.- Only Zetterberg, Franzen, Datsyuk and Hossa see more ES ice time then him (not to mention he has played 17 more games then Franzen. This isn't a knock against Flip, rather it points out that total ice time on the year is not even close between Flip and Franzen. Flip has had leaps and bounds more total ice time on the year)

He is 4th in even strength points, other players have more points than him because they play on the powerplay.

And I have no idea what you're getting at with the Franzen TOI thing. Of course the ES TOI isn't even close, he's played 17 more games than him! Here is a fact check for you, Franzen has more ES TOI PER GAME.

Both of those points are moot.

Are things like that all you ever post or do you ever actually formulate your own opinions?

[Guest EZBAKETHAGANGSTA]

He is 4th in even strength points, other players have more points than him because they play on the powerplay.

And I have no idea what you're getting at with the Franzen TOI thing. Of course the ES TOI isn't even close, he's played 17 more games than him! Here is a fact check for you, Franzen has more ES TOI PER GAME.

Both of those points are moot.

Are things like that all you ever post or do you ever actually formulate your own opinions?

Read this whole thread, I respond to a lot. But even if I did just do the thumbs up sign, I'd rather be a follower of logic than a heretic

[Guest EZBAKETHAGANGSTA]

It has nothing to do with your name, it has to do with the fact that almost every post you belittle, insult, and demean anyone who happens to disagree with you. I didn't post the funny pictures because I disagree with you but because you act like everyone who disagrees with you is stupid, has no right to be on this forum, and isn't really a Wings fan. You refuse to let anyone disagree with you without your calling them stupid and acting as if they cannot have differing opinions. I could care less if you disagree with me or anyone else, what sucks and warrants (in my opinion) the pictures is the way you treat those who disagree with you.

If you think I'm the only one guilty of this please re read this thread...

[Aussie_Wing 354]

How were you picking and choosing stats? Hmmm maybe when you conveintalty forgot to mention that despite having more assists, he is actually on pace for FEWER POINTS THAN LAST SEASON. You simply picked one positive, while ignoring the negative. Good god, I know you've probably never even watched Hockey, but have you never heard of simple logic?

Maybe you struggled at maths bud?

Last season: 36 points @ .46 PPG

This season: 29 points @ .50 PPG

So actually he is on pace for MORE POINTS THAN LAST SEASON.

And please do not disrespect me, I watch a lot of hockey. Thanks.

[Tane 17]

Well, I used to think Flip was in the Same Discussion as Hudler as our 6th Best Forward, Behind Dats, Z, Hossa, Franzen And Holmstrom.

But I must Say Sir. Thank you For Educating me. Your Post and Your Post alone Has Taught me That Flip IS the 4th Best Forward.

I'm glad my opinion was able to formulate itself by reading your post on the internet, instead of getting off the internet, watching the games and forming my own opinion.

Thanks for educating me.

Why Don't you educate Me Further?

Who are my Favorite PLayers?

Who am I rooting for this year in the playoffs, other than the Wings?

Why don't you just tell me your opinion on what the scores are going to be for the rest of the season, that way I don't have to bother to watch the games?...Or was your point that I Should Watch the Games....But instead of Forming MY own Opinion, jsut follow yours?

Pick a Player. I could argue that anyone on this team is our 4th Best Forward. Just because you decide to Name Filppula the 4th best, call us Uneducated people that do not watch the games and put forth 4 paragraphs of argument towards your case, does not make you right.

Aaron Downey Is Clearly our 4th Best Forward next to The Big three.

Sure, Downey doesn't Put up the points, but that's because he doesn't play on the top two lines with the Big three. Hell I could Put up points with the Big three. You guys don't appreciate Aaron Downey, Because You Uneducated Internet nerds probably never turn your heads away from the Message boards to watch the Games. Or even Better yet, get off your asses an GO to the Games. The only thing you geeks pay attention to is the STAT SHEET.

Sure Downey doesn't put up the points, But he doesn't have to. Hudler, Franzen, Filppula, Homer, Sammy, Cleary are all two way Scorers. They're all 2nd and 3rd rate Versions Of the Big Three. We could lose any one of those players, and the team won't miss a beat.

Draper, Maltby, McCarty Are all shells of their former selves, and while are Great Character players, arn't as Valuable as an Aaron Downey is to a hockey team. Kopey, Helm, Abdelkader are all unproven at the NHL Level.

That Leaves Aaron Downey as the Best player left after the Big 3. He's the Best on the team at what he does. He's the Best Fighter/Enforcer/Tough guy/Body Guard this team Has. He's the Absolute Best at 4 different categories. You can't say that about any other player.

Sure he doens't have the Stats, But if he had as much Ice Time, Power play time, and Time with Dats and Z, His Numbers would be monstrous.

Aaron Downey Is Definitively Our 4th Best Forward, and If Any of you Jerks ever got off your computer and Watched this Guy play live, you'd see the Energy and Passion that He Brings to every Single Second he's on the Ice. It's not that Babcock doesn't Trust him enough to play him more, it's just that his style is so heroic and Fearless, that Babs doesn't want to burn him out for the playoffs.

Aaron Downey leads the league in TOIWYPLSLAFUYA Minutes. That's Time On Ice When PLaying Like Someone Lit A Fire Under Your Ass Minutes. It's the Newest Stat on NHL.com

Listen, Anyone Can come on here, pick any player and write about their positives, and write with conviction that they're the best player in the league. There's a reason we keep track of, and become so obsessed with THE STAT SHEET...And there's a reason Certain players Play more than Others. If Flip Was the 4th best Forward, he would be getting the Power Play Time, the PK Time, and He would be on the top 2 lines.

I'm not saying he won't be great. He's just not there yet. I'm a huge FLip fan. and have High hopes for him. But he is not our 4th best Forward.

Edited February 18, 2009 by Tane

[TheOwl 77]

4th best defensive forward? Maybe. Although no stat shows that. Flipulla sucks. 8 forwards have more points then he does. Now obviously, Flipulla isn't on the power play. So all his points are at even strength. That being said, shouldn't he have an insane +/- if all his points are 5-5, AND he's such a great shut down defensive forward? He's +11, with 6 forwards with a better +/-. So how exactly is Flipulla such a great defensive forward? I'm not even going to bother with this anymore. Flipulla is over-paid, and could be easily replaced with someone who scores double the goals, the same amount of points, for half the salary. He should be traded for a draft pick to make room for Hudler and Sammy. Two guys who can actually put the puck in the net once and awhile. Flipulla getting second assists on Hossa goals doesn't impress me, nor should it impress you. Flipulla sucks.

I can't stand the obsession with defense anymore on this forum, we must have defensive forwards, we must have elite defense men. Everyone must back check! Everyone must be defensively sound! We have the 3 Selke finalists, 2 Selke winners, a 6 time Norris winner, a two time Norris winner, Rafalski, and on and on. All these great defensive players mean nothing. The Wings lose on a regular basis 5-4, 7-6, 4-3. It is all bloody meaningless when the guy you got in playing goalie can't stop the bloody puck to save his life. Defense is meaningless when Osgood is in net. And everyone harping about how great our forwards are at D is a waste of everyones time. The forwards don't stop the puck, the goalie does. And no matter what the situition, it's the goalies fault the puck goes in the net. With all these great two-way players, Osgood still lets in 6 goals, seemingly every night.

The other huge problem the Wings have is no one blocks shots. How many times do you see a Wing on his stomach or back, blocking a shot. Once and awhile perhaps? Some teams block 20-30 shots each night. That's 20-30 goals Osgood may of let in! It's obvious Osgood can't stop the puck any better then myself, or you, or your family members. So the only option is to block every single shot, so Osgood doesn't even get the opportunity to try and make a "save".

In fact, I propose that Babcock leave the net empty the entire game. I will bet any amount of money that the Wings will not only win that game, but give up less goals then Osgood would've predictably let in. Let's say 5, that's a conservative number. Not too high, not too low. 5-4 Wings, with the empty net. That's good coaching.

Edited February 18, 2009 by TheOwl

[seeinred 1,488]

4th best defensive forward? Maybe. Although no stat shows that. Flipulla sucks. 8 forwards have more points then he does. Now obviously, Flipulla isn't on the power play. So all his points are at even strength. That being said, shouldn't he have an insane +/- if all his points are 5-5, AND he's such a great shut down defensive forward? He's +11, with 6 forwards with a better +/-. So how exactly is Flipulla such a great defensive forward? I'm not even going to bother with this anymore. Flipulla is over-paid, and could be easily replaced with someone who scores double the goals, the same amount of points, for half the salary. He should be traded for a draft pick to make room for Hudler and Sammy. Two guys who can actually put the puck in the net once and awhile. Flipulla getting second assists on Hossa goals doesn't impress me, nor should it impress you. Flipulla sucks.

I can't stand the obsession with defense anymore on this forum, we must have defensive forwards, we must have elite defense men. Everyone must back check! Everyone must be defensively sound! We have the 3 Selke finalists, 2 Selke winners, a 6 time Norris winner, a two time Norris winner, Rafalski, and on and on. All these great defensive players mean nothing. The Wings lose on a regular basis 5-4, 7-6, 4-3. It is all bloody meaningless when the guy you got in playing goalie can't stop the bloody puck to save his life. Defense is meaningless when Osgood is in net. And everyone harping about how great our forwards are at D is a waste of everyones time. The forwards don't stop the puck, the goalie does. And no matter what the situition, it's the goalies fault the puck goes in the net. With all these great two-way players, Osgood still lets in 6 goals, seemingly every night.

The other huge problem the Wings have is no one blocks shots. How many times do you see a Wing on his stomach or back, blocking a shot. Once and awhile perhaps? Some teams block 20-30 shots each night. That's 20-30 goals Osgood may of let in! It's obvious Osgood can't stop the puck any better then myself, or you, or your family members. So the only option is to block every single shot, so Osgood doesn't even get the opportunity to try and make a "save".

In fact, I propose that Babcock leave the net empty the entire game. I will bet any amount of money that the Wings will not only win that game, but give up less goals then Osgood would've predictably let in. Let's say 5, that's a conservative number. Not too high, not too low. 5-4 Wings, with the empty net. That's good coaching.

I've always wondered what's fun about trolling. Will you explain why you do this? Is it a nerdrage outlet or what?

And if you don't get the "obsession" with defense around here, you either don't like winning or you're rooting for the wrong team.

[Icesurfer 75]

I predict Filppula will be traded before the trade deadline. If the Wings are to keep Hossa and Franzen he has to go anyway.

[Doggy 130]

To be honest, unless Franzen wants as low as $3.5m, I'd prefer to keep Fil over Johan. The thing I don't like about losing Mule (other than not having him anymore) is we get nothing in return.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Flipper rocks. :rockstar:

[tommingthepuck96 1]

Heres a prime example of one of your stat sheet boys. Knows nothing about the game just googles the stats and catches the highlights on sports center. You failed to mention anything you know about these players from actual experience, All you have is these stats.

Haha, made me laugh, but sadly its true about most of the people here.

I have no intention to argue with any of you "red wing" experts, but any of you saying filpulla is under acheiving this season pretty much is just a one demensional hockey expert, or to make it simple, a "berry melrose"..

Theres a reason why babcock gives val the ice time he gets, and theres a reason why holland gives him the kind of money he gets. If you look into it, stats are misleading when it comes to this guy, and anyone who watches red wing games knows what im talking about.

Its about the little plays that make him one of the most skilled guys on this team, chipping the puck back to defensmen... back checking, postioning, poise, patience, small plays that go unnoticed that makes players like val so under-rated. The list goes on.. those of you who know real hockey know what im talking about. Only datsyuk makes these little plays better that filppula

I predict Filppula will be traded before the trade deadline. If the Wings are to keep Hossa and Franzen he has to go anyway.

And i predict valterri filppula will be in the 2010-2011 all star game wearing a wings jersey. If not sooner then in later years, but this guy is the future franchise datsyuk or zetterberg of this team, along with hudler. Its to bad some of you don't see val's potential, but holland, babcock, and the rest of the organization do see it, and thats all that matters.. sorry hes not going anywhere kids..

Edited February 18, 2009 by tommingthepuck96

[Wingaling 0]

Flip seems to be that guy that everyone used to say he's our next guy, but over the last year or so he's the trade bait guy, 1st for sundin and now for...anyone. I however like him alot and see a major improvment (I dont think its just cause I like him but it could be)he carry's the puck with athority and is a great playmaker, you can tell he spends alot of time in practice with Dats. You keep him with huds and hossa and he'll set both of them up all night long...then put him with Dats on a regular basis and you might see some crazy sh*t like Hank and Dats used to do, or do they still do it and Im just used to it now?

[VM1138 1,921]

Flip seems to be that guy that everyone used to say he's our next guy, but over the last year or so he's the trade bait guy, 1st for sundin and now for...anyone. I however like him alot and see a major improvment (I dont think its just cause I like him but it could be)he carry's the puck with athority and is a great playmaker, you can tell he spends alot of time in practice with Dats. You keep him with huds and hossa and he'll set both of them up all night long...then put him with Dats on a regular basis and you might see some crazy sh*t like Hank and Dats used to do, or do they still do it and Im just used to it now?

Look, Flip was going to be "our next guy." In fact, he's still hugely talented. He very well could be "the next guy" but right now our "next guy" is Hossa and maybe Hudler and Franzen.

We like Flip (at least I do), but we have to lose someone. I'd rather it be him that Hudler or Franzen simply because while he is doing slightly better than last season he's still not doing as great as we thought he would be doing.

I'd hate to lose him, and I'm not one of thsoe guys who is impatient and tries to throw a player under the bus when he struggles, but Flip's development has either stalled or greatly slowed down. That wouldn't be a problem except for the fact that we have two players (Hudler and Franzen) who's development is skyrocketing (or has).

Flip's major upside is that he's a big playoff performer, but can we really save room on the roster for that when Franzen and Hudler are as well?

It's not that I WANT to get rid of Flip, but that we might have to.