A new netminder?

[RedSea 31]

If Minny can't re-sign Backstrom by the deadline, I could see Holland giving up Filppula, Conklin and a prospect/pick for an upgrade in goaltending that will only last the rest of the season. This will free up cap space to re-sign Hossa and Franzen. Then we could potentially get draft picks back by a juicy offer sheet to Hudler.

The Wild are the Lions in this case, trading away an upcoming free agent that will possibly not re-sign (Roy Williams) to look out for the future of the team.

The only issue is if the Wings management feel losing Filppula is worth a quality run at the cup this year and only a temporary fix at goaltending.

I think Ozzie will work harder if he's bumped to backup again. Then maybe he improves before next year and provides a viable solution at goalie once again. But right now, things aren't looking good. This is a chance for the Wings to pull off outstanding goaltending with outstanding offense. That isn't something that's really possible in the land of the salary cap, but leave it to Kenny to figure out a way.

[kylee 727]

If Minny can't re-sign Backstrom by the deadline, I could see Holland giving up Filppula, Conklin and a prospect/pick for an upgrade in goaltending that will only last the rest of the season. This will free up cap space to re-sign Hossa and Franzen. Then we could potentially get draft picks back by a juicy offer sheet to Hudler.

The Wild are the Lions in this case, trading away an upcoming free agent that will possibly not re-sign (Roy Williams) to look out for the future of the team.

The only issue is if the Wings management feel losing Filppula is worth a quality run at the cup this year and only a temporary fix at goaltending.

I think Ozzie will work harder if he's bumped to backup again. Then maybe he improves before next year and provides a viable solution at goalie once again. But right now, things aren't looking good. This is a chance for the Wings to pull off outstanding goaltending with outstanding offense. That isn't something that's really possible in the land of the salary cap, but leave it to Kenny to figure out a way.

are you saying we would essentially rent Backstrom?

[RedSea 31]

are you saying we would essentially rent Backstrom?

Yep. Kind of seems unlikely, but I could see it. He could stick around with a few moves if the Wings lose all faith in Ozzie and their goalie prospects.

I was excited thinking about this at first. I just don't know how I feel about a rental. Of course, I thought Hossa was a rental at first and was fine with it. But I'm not the one making decisions. This just makes the deadline more interesting to me.

[IUWingsFan 1]

If Minny can't re-sign Backstrom by the deadline, I could see Holland giving up Filppula, Conklin and a prospect/pick for an upgrade in goaltending that will only last the rest of the season. This will free up cap space to re-sign Hossa and Franzen. Then we could potentially get draft picks back by a juicy offer sheet to Hudler.

I like this idea, but less we forget Minnesota is only two points out of a playoff spot. If in two weeks they somehow fall out a few points back, this could be a possibility, but look at it from the Wild's point of view. As much as you don't want to lose a goalie like Backstrom to UFA, making the playoffs is still very possible, and they could believe they have a shot at making a run.

That said, I don't think Kenny would trade Conklin, who probably took less to play here, and most likely a 1st/2nd round pick, for a rental, even if it's an obvious upgrade. He'll need to move Fil to keep Hossa and Franzen, but this isn't the way he'll do it IMO...

[zetts40 0]

http://thefourthperiod.com/columnists/journal/pagnotta.html

Scroll down to where it talks about the wild and Backstrom...

Looks like the wild want to keep him long term.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

http://thefourthperiod.com/columnists/journal/pagnotta.html

Scroll down to where it talks about the wild and Backstrom...

Looks like the wild want to keep him long term.

Of course they do. Why wouldn't they? Doesn't change the fact that they could be singing a different tune if March 4th rolls around and hes still unsigned. That happens all the time.

[VM1138 1,921]

I like this idea, but less we forget Minnesota is only two points out of a playoff spot. If in two weeks they somehow fall out a few points back, this could be a possibility, but look at it from the Wild's point of view. As much as you don't want to lose a goalie like Backstrom to UFA, making the playoffs is still very possible, and they could believe they have a shot at making a run.

That said, I don't think Kenny would trade Conklin, who probably took less to play here, and most likely a 1st/2nd round pick, for a rental, even if it's an obvious upgrade. He'll need to move Fil to keep Hossa and Franzen, but this isn't the way he'll do it IMO...

What is this about it being a good thing to get picks for Hudler? We're not in rebuilding mode, why would we gut our skill now for youth to develop?

I'd also be leery of getting Conklin, the only goalie playing reliably well, though I bet we'd have to if we get a new goalie.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

I'm not sure what the average salary is for a star goaltender, but I'm going to guess that it's more than the $1.4m we pay Osgood. Who do you suggest we lose to make up for that?

Also, what team is going to take Osgood off our hands? Buying out his contract would hurt as much as the new goalie's salary.

I just don't see how this idea is realistic. Osgood is our goalie. Conklin is our goalie. We don't have the money to throw around at a new one - we're stuck, no matter how much we don't like it. And the biggest factor in all of this is that Babs is STILL confident in Osgood.. which makes it even MORE unrealistic. One of those guys has to step up. That's all there is to it. No trading. No new goalies. Plain old stepping up.

I'm not sure what you're getting at. If we add Backstrom, he's going to be a rental. And Osgood stays. Thats the price a GM pays if he thinks theres a player who can put his team over the hump. Holland did it not two years ago with Bertuzzi.

[clutchngrab 12]

Sign Hossa, deal Franzen for a goalie and waive Osgood. Neat and tidy.

Edited February 17, 2009 by clutchngrab

[kylee 727]

Sign Hossa, deal Franzen for a goalie.

pithy and simple, i like it!

[Wingsallwin 0]

I do not see why we should not afford a good and expensive goalie. Pretty much except for the Wings, a lot of team put a lot of money on goalie. I do not see why it should not happen to the Wings. Because our system right now is not paying a lot of cap on goalie, it does not mean our system should be like this in the future.

Technically, the goalie who gets the most salary as a goalie is Luongo right now. He is getting around 6.5million. If we still consider our Wings game is centered by defenses hockey, we will not get Luongo. Then, if we suppose we do not sign Franzen, we still have to sign with Huds and Sammy if we suppose we sign Hossa for around 6 million. That is pretty much a deal.

The ideal goalie for this team is like Lethonen or other some guy ages around 27 or 28 because those kind of goalie has skill and experience. I personally want Lethonen in this team even though I did not watch his game that much.

But the thing is the time is very hurt. Now, Nick is getting 7.5 million and if we resign him, he will get way lower than right now. Then, by those money, we can sign a good goalie. That means if we want a good goalie, we cannot avoid a trade but I do not see that happens

What I am concerning about Osgood and Conklin this season is that we have to deal with this for not only this season but for long future. If we still think Howard and Larsson still need more time to be the NHLer, we may have to need a good goalie under the fact Nick is getting out of his prime.

Besides, if we consider our rest of defenses, Kronwall, Rafalski, Stuart, Lilja, and some like Lebda, we do not see our defenses will go defensively after Nick retires because players I mention above play very offensively. Then, unless Eriksson becomes super hot defense, we definately need a good goalie. I do not know who that goalie will be but just my opinion.

[Ms_Hockey 0]

I'm not sure what you're getting at. If we add Backstrom, he's going to be a rental. And Osgood stays. Thats the price a GM pays if he thinks theres a player who can put his team over the hump. Holland did it not two years ago with Bertuzzi.

Then does Holland just hold off on contract talks with Hossa/Franzen?

I'm just not understanding how this would work. Do we have the extra cap space to rent Backstrom out?

[Wingsallwin 0]

And I agree we can give up some draft picks and some players to get Backstrom. Backstrom, personally, I think he is better than Luongo right now.

But the idea to trade Conklin does not sound good to me because Conks has been enough good this season and giving up Filp does not sound good either because I mentioned before Kenny signed Filp with the thought Filp can be bad for some seasons but he still has a lot of potential ability I think.

Still, I do not know how Kenny will do. Kenny announced he will not be interested on goalie but who knows, humans minds always change. And if Conks can be traded, I do not see why Osgood cannot be traded. Osgood is loyal to this team but from business's view, it is money and winning.

One soccer players once said, players first show loyalty to teams, but for the team itself, it can kick every player who play poorly because sports market is a business and managers or adminstrators should do every positive work for the team.

[Z and D for the C 712]

Sign Hossa, deal Franzen for a goalie and waive Osgood. Neat and tidy.

I'd rather see this than any trade involving flip, but since Franzen is only making 950k it might not work given our cap situation.

[Ms_Hockey 0]

I do not see why we should not afford a good and expensive goalie. Pretty much except for the Wings, a lot of team put a lot of money on goalie. I do not see why it should not happen to the Wings. Because our system right now is not paying a lot of cap on goalie, it does not mean our system should be like this in the future.

The Wings also have a ridiculous amount of depth on their roster. As I've stated before, we've got guys on our 3rd line who would easily make 1st liners on other teams. When it comes to the depth - the Wings have the upper hand on any team in the NHL. We also have consistently had one of the best defensive units in the league. As such, the philosophy has become on of putting money on D and relaxing between the pipes. It's the idea that if you have a great defense, you don't need a great goalie - and it's worked time and time again. The major flaw in that plan is that when your defense begins to show wear and tear, your goalie isn't as reliable as he COULD be.. but that's all part of the risk of building your team from the defense out. The Wings put the majority of their effort into their defense.. by making sure we have great players on the ice to making sure we have enough great backups should someone get injured.

Will it be like this forever? Probably not. But this is the first year in awhile that we've really had a problem with it... so I doubt management is going to consider switching everything up after one season.

But the thing is the time is very hurt. Now, Nick is getting 7.5 million and if we resign him, he will get way lower than right now. Then, by those money, we can sign a good goalie. That means if we want a good goalie, we cannot avoid a trade but I do not see that happens

Kenny has always made it a point that Lidstrom should be the most paid player on the team. IF he were to re-sign (which I'm not convinced he will), I can't say for sure how much a discount we'd get from his pay. As long as Lidstrom is on this team and is captain of this team, he'll automatically get the highest paycheck - simply out of respect from the Red Wings organization. So it really depends what the other players are getting paid around that time.

What I am concerning about Osgood and Conklin this season is that we have to deal with this for not only this season but for long future. If we still think Howard and Larsson still need more time to be the NHLer, we may have to need a good goalie under the fact Nick is getting out of his prime.

Besides, if we consider our rest of defenses, Kronwall, Rafalski, Stuart, Lilja, and some like Lebda, we do not see our defenses will go defensively after Nick retires because players I mention above play very offensively. Then, unless Eriksson becomes super hot defense, we definately need a good goalie. I do not know who that goalie will be but just my opinion.

I honestly don't have a clue what's going on with Howard. It seems like he's been in the background for awhile now - but from what I've been hearing, he's really not doing very well for himself in net. (I'm sure someone else can elaborate much better than I can on that topic.)

As for Lidstrom being passed his prime, I wouldn't count him out just yet. He has a pained elbow - but if he didn't, I'm not convinced his play would be lacking as much as it is. For his age, Lidstrom is far healthier than I think anybody would've expected. Don't toss him out, yet. Wait until he's healthy and see if he's lacking then.

You're right about one thing - eventually, we WILL need a new goalie. But for right now.. we're stuck until we can re-arrange the team and/or the salaries of the players on the team. I just can't find any viable loopholes to squeeze someone in through.

[Outsider 42]

The ideal goalie for this team is like Lethonen or other some guy ages around 27 or 28 because those kind of goalie has skill and experience. I personally want Lethonen in this team even though I did not watch his game that much.

Lest you think I'm "attacking" you, let me preface this by saying that I have watched Kari Lehtonen play, a lot.

Well....as much as can be expected, considering his injury history.

While he's a very talented goaltender, he's a walking nightmare, injury-wise. He's been plagued by groin, hip, and (most recently, and not nearly as "chronically"), back injuries.

He's been battling the groin/hip thing from the time he was 21? 22? years old, and has missed significant playing time because of it.

His Coach in Atlanta also called him out on a couple of occasions for not being "committed" to his own training/health, and indicated that he might spend less time on Injured Reserve if he weren't so.....um......

"Pudgy".

And again, if you think I'm "attacking" you, simply run a Yahoo! or Google search on "Kari Lehtonen injured". It's rather scary how such a young, seemingly "sturdy" lad can be so fragile.

[TheOwl 77]

All things considered, in my opinion, Backstrom is the best, most consistent, goalie in the league. The Wild don't win a lot, but nearly every game they play, it's 2:1, 3:2, 1:0. He is extremely solid. And stats alone (of the starting goalies), Backstrom is the best. If the Wings could get this guy long term, they'd win Cups year after year. Even giving up someone like Franzen, or Flipulla and Kopetsky, or basically any player minus Z, Hossa, Dats, Lid and Rafa, it would be well worth it if they could get him long term.

Seriously, Wings with Backstrom, Z, Dats, Hossa, Rafa and Lids? This team would never lose. Not one game. Ever. That's an exaggeration, but the Wings are a solid goalie away from a nearly unbeatable dynasty. All this bs about cap space, cap space, D, D, D, scoring, scoring. Backstrom at just over 3 million a season is a bloody steal, and losing 2 guys off the current roster would be a serious upgrade basically no matter which way you work it out.

Edited February 17, 2009 by TheOwl

[Outsider 42]

And I agree we can give up some draft picks and some players to get Backstrom. Backstrom, personally, I think he is better than Luongo right now.

But the idea to trade Conklin does not sound good to me because Conks has been enough good this season and giving up Filp does not sound good either because I mentioned before Kenny signed Filp with the thought Filp can be bad for some seasons but he still has a lot of potential ability I think.

Still, I do not know how Kenny will do. Kenny announced he will not be interested on goalie but who knows, humans minds always change. And if Conks can be traded, I do not see why Osgood cannot be traded. Osgood is loyal to this team but from business's view, it is money and winning.

One soccer players once said, players first show loyalty to teams, but for the team itself, it can kick every player who play poorly because sports market is a business and managers or adminstrators should do every positive work for the team.

Here I go attacking you again....

With all due respect, the ONLY reason that the Wings are able to sign Players like Zetterberg, Hossa, Dats, et al, to what everyone considers to be FAR below market value for Players of their calibre, is BECAUSE of the loyalty they've exhibited toward their Players throughout the years.

Premier Players choose to leave money on the table, and sign with Detroit "on the cheap" because they know that not only will they have a chance at Winning, but they, and their families, will be well taken care of and respected.

While you, personally, don't seem to like Osgood, he is known League-wide as a stand-up Team first guy, who has always done everything the Wings Organization has asked of him.

If the Wings jettison him now, after 30 questionable regular season games, having been a loyal and fantastically productive Wing for 10+ years, and less than a year after Winning the Cup.....

That doesn't tie into the infinitely valuable "Team if Family" atmosphere Mr. I has nurtured, (to great success, I might add), since he bought the "Dead Things".

It makes them look like mercenaries.

[egroen 384]

Then does Holland just hold off on contract talks with Hossa/Franzen?

I'm just not understanding how this would work. Do we have the extra cap space to rent Backstrom out?

Yes. The Wings could afford adding up to as much as $4m in salary at the trade deadline, without losing a roster player. Holland has been hording cap space all year long for this type of flexibility (playing Meech at forward; not bringing up any of the GR goalies, etc).

He does not need to hold off talks with Franzen or Hossa - as long as he is (if) bringing in a UFA or RFA, so the tagging limits are not reached. This is not the year for the Wings to bring in a goalie long term -- one more year of Osgood and Howard/Larsson/Conklin or trade deadline rental is not going to kill this team. They need to figure out how much they save with Lidstrom's next contract, where the cap is going for the all important 2010-11 season and just how far along Howard and Larsson have come.

[Wingsallwin 0]

Lest you think I'm "attacking" you, let me preface this by saying that I have watched Kari Lehtonen play, a lot.

Well....as much as can be expected, considering his injury history.

While he's a very talented goaltender, he's a walking nightmare, injury-wise. He's been plagued by groin, hip, and (most recently, and not nearly as "chronically"), back injuries.

He's been battling the groin/hip thing from the time he was 21? 22? years old, and has missed significant playing time because of it.

His Coach in Atlanta also called him out on a couple of occasions for not being "committed" to his own training/health, and indicated that he might spend less time on Injured Reserve if he weren't so.....um......

"Pudgy".

And again, if you think I'm "attacking" you, simply run a Yahoo! or Google search on "Kari Lehtonen injured". It's rather scary how such a young, seemingly "sturdy" lad can be so fragile.

Never thought you attack me, everyone here attacks(?), not a proper word but we know the trash talk is a half fun in the forum so you do not have to say like that.

Lethonen was just my example so the Wings do not have to get him. It is just my opinion. But what I am trying to point out is if we think Osgood cannot go back to his 08 season performance during the future contract left for him, we will definately need a goalie.

Did you not mention Conks is not a constant goalie? Well then Conks is good this season so he will not be this much next few season and neither our Larsson nor Howard are ready, then we definately need a goalie.

We are not the only guys who think seriously about our goaltending. Our goaltending has been the issue for actually pretty long but because Hasek and Osgood were good in this team last two years, it was just hidden. Now, Hasek retired and Osgood is having a slump and he does not seem to bounce back to his game in the future because he is also old, then I do not see why we cannot trade goalies.

And Nick is getting out of his prime right now so I cannot think our defenses will play the most and best defensive game in the league anymore.

If our defenses cannot hold up other teams' opponents anymore in the future, then we need a type of goalie who can absorb a lot of shots like Luongo.

Again, if my posts were sounded to attack you, and your post sounded to attack me, well then I am sorry for it.

[Ms_Hockey 0]

Yes. The Wings could afford adding up to as much as $4m in salary at the trade deadline, without losing a roster player. Holland has been hording cap space all year long for this type of flexibility (playing Meech at forward; not bringing up any of the GR goalies, etc).

He does not need to hold off talks with Franzen or Hossa - as long as he is (if) bringing in a UFA or RFA, so the tagging limits are not reached. This is not the year for the Wings to bring in a goalie long term -- one more year of Osgood and Howard/Larsson/Conklin or trade deadline rental is not going to kill this team. They need to figure out how much they save with Lidstrom's next contract, where the cap is going for the all important 2010-11 season and just how far along Howard and Larsson have come.

If Kenny even has it in his mind to do this (which I'm not convinced he will considering that Babs is still pushing for Osgood to show), he'd better jump and do it - fast.

The Flyers and the Avs boards have both picked up on this.. though I'm not sure how reality vs. fantasy that actually is. Looks like we'd have to get in there and stake our claim pretty quickly.

[egroen 384]

Here I go attacking you again....

With all due respect, the ONLY reason that the Wings are able to sign Players like Zetterberg, Hossa, Dats, et al, to what everyone considers to be FAR below market value for Players of their calibre, is BECAUSE of the loyalty they've exhibited toward their Players throughout the years.

Premier Players choose to leave money on the table, and sign with Detroit "on the cheap" because they know that not only will they have a chance at Winning, but they, and their families, will be well taken care of and respected.

While you, personally, don't seem to like Osgood, he is known League-wide as a stand-up Team first guy, who has always done everything the Wings Organization has asked of him.

If the Wings jettison him now, after 30 questionable regular season games, having been a loyal and fantastically productive Wing for 10+ years, and less than a year after Winning the Cup.....

That doesn't tie into the infinitely valuable "Team if Family" atmosphere Mr. I has nurtured, (to great success, I might add), since he bought the "Dead Things".

It makes them look like mercenaries.

The Wings can not afford to be 100% loyal in a cap world, or they will be left behind. I agree with everything you said, especially regarding Osgood -- but I still view Filppula as expendable. He did not take a discount and he held out for a long time. I would be shocked if Osgood was traded - and it makes sense to keep him, even if he never regains his old form. His salary is not at all bad for a backup. But the Wings can not just let players like Hossa, Franzen and Hudler wak away simply because Filppula became a free agent first.

Edited February 17, 2009 by egroen

[Wingsallwin 0]

Here I go attacking you again....

With all due respect, the ONLY reason that the Wings are able to sign Players like Zetterberg, Hossa, Dats, et al, to what everyone considers to be FAR below market value for Players of their calibre, is BECAUSE of the loyalty they've exhibited toward their Players throughout the years.

Premier Players choose to leave money on the table, and sign with Detroit "on the cheap" because they know that not only will they have a chance at Winning, but they, and their families, will be well taken care of and respected.

While you, personally, don't seem to like Osgood, he is known League-wide as a stand-up Team first guy, who has always done everything the Wings Organization has asked of him.

If the Wings jettison him now, after 30 questionable regular season games, having been a loyal and fantastically productive Wing for 10+ years, and less than a year after Winning the Cup.....

That doesn't tie into the infinitely valuable "Team if Family" atmosphere Mr. I has nurtured, (to great success, I might add), since he bought the "Dead Things".

It makes them look like mercenaries.

OK, I agree the Wings should be loyal to players. But what about Draper and Matlby this season? Why do we have to be loyal to Osgood this season?

I do not know you watch soccer or not. AC Milan is the team known as the most loyal team in the Soccer league for players. People liked and also fans did in the past but because of that too big loyalty, they just failed and now having two consecutive tough seasons. Is it not proper we compare soccer league and the NHL?

And again, I am not against Osgood. Before we care about one player, we have to care about the team first. If the team knows particular player cannot be positive effective player in this team, and if that team is still loyal to the player, I do not know which one is good.

[Ms_Hockey 0]

OK, I agree the Wings should be loyal to players. But what about Draper and Matlby this season? Why do we have to be loyal to Osgood this season?

I do not know you watch soccer or not. AC Milan is the team known as the most loyal team in the Soccer league for players. People liked and also fans did in the past but because of that too big loyalty, they just failed and now having two consecutive tough seasons. Is it not proper we compare soccer league and the NHL?

And again, I am not against Osgood. Before we care about one player, we have to care about the team first. If the team knows particular player cannot be positive effective player in this team, and if that team is still loyal to the player, I do not know which one is good.

I really don't have an explanation other than "That's just how Detroit is."

That's how they've been for awhile. As I said in another reply, whether that's the right way to do things could be argued.. but Detroit is very much a loyalty system.

[Z and D for the C 712]

The wings are loyal but not at the obvious expense of the team. There is a balance to be kept.

Our goal tending could very realistically cost us the cup this year. It's not like it would be the first time Osgood has been dumped.

Edited February 17, 2009 by Z and D for the C