Holland:"Wings aren't seeking goalie"

[DMAC 25 18]

if they dont win this year then in the offseason do u think they'll look for another goalie or sign conklin again?

[lets go pavel 2]

Come on man give our defense a break, answer me how many 30 plus shot games have these clowns in nets had to face. I venture to say not many. Just go over the shot totals, its a joke that Osgood is as bad as he is with so little to face , 22 , 24 , 25 , 28. He's piss poor; the defense is more then competent. Look at Kippersoff in Calgary believe he earns his money every night. Not like this clown with a couple of rings.

I'm not bashing our defense ... hence "to a lesser extent". They have played better of late, but I do think they have made more mental errors, bad turnovers, etc. this year than what we're used to. That doesn't excuse the play of Ozzie at all ... my point was that the issue is with how WE play, regardless of who you want to include in the "we", not how the other teams play us ...

[boomer 0]

It worked pretty well last year ...

Let tell you last year was a cake walk its not going to be this year. With things as they stand it wiil be a a first round exit. Hope I'm wrong, cuz with this goaltending all you got his hope.

[Ms_Hockey 0]

It worked pretty well last year ...

It's worked pretty well almost EVERY year, actually.

The problem being that once there seems to be some rust on the defensive armor, the goalie's weaknesses begin to show.

When defense gets better, the goalie's stats will get better. That's just the way the cookie crumbles.

[Ms_Hockey 0]

She'll do well here, this one!

I may be assassinated, but darnit - my dreams matter.

[sureWhyNot 19]

I love Osgood and Conklin.

That's cute. Reminds me of my friend whose alcoholic father beats him, and is always a day late and a dollar short when it comes to anything family oriented (Ozzie), and his mom who is nice, means well, is a good parent when the dad is out of the house, but in the end still plays second fiddle to the father (that would be Conklin.)

[lets go pavel 2]

That's cute. Reminds me of my friend whose alcoholic father beats him, and is always a day late and a dollar short when it comes to anything family oriented (Ozzie), and his mom who is nice, means well, is a good parent when the dad is out of the house, but in the end still plays second fiddle to the father (that would be Conklin.)

Is this really the best analogy you can come up with? Jesus ...

[egroen 384]

It's worked pretty well almost EVERY year, actually.

The problem being that once there seems to be some rust on the defensive armor, the goalie's weaknesses begin to show.

When defense gets better, the goalie's stats will get better. That's just the way the cookie crumbles.

The Wings defense is currently 3rd in the NHL in shots allowed with 27.8 (first is 27.0). Yet the Wings are 18th in goals against per game. It's hard to argue the defense is at fault here at this point.

This is not an "off" year for Osgood -- this is his worse year EVER, and by no small margin.

Not directed at one person in particular, but goalies eventually lose it as they age, as do all players. Just like we could not pardon Hasek in the playoffs last year because of his history, we can not pardon Osgood. And Hasek was playing much better in the regular season than Osgood has all year.

Hell, Hasek played better last year in the playoffs, when he was yanked, than Osgood has been playing all year! That is how bad Osgood has been this year.

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

The Wings defense is currently 3rd in the NHL in shots allowed with 27.8 (first is 27.0). Yet the Wings are 18th in goals against per game. It's hard to argue the defense is at fault here at this point.

People need to absolutely come off this point. Quality, not quantity. Some nights I swear to god it's a breakaway relay in our end.

[egroen 384]

People need to absolutely come off this point. Quality, not quantity. Some nights I swear to god it's a breakaway relay in our end.

Since November, I see absolutely no downgrade to our defense from last year. We just notice the bad plays more (which have always happened) just because the puck ends up in the back of the net more often -- and Ken and Mickey then point out what went wrong. Noting new, but more goals against.

[lets go pavel 2]

The Wings defense is currently 3rd in the NHL in shots allowed with 27.8 (first is 27.0). Yet the Wings are 18th in goals against per game. It's hard to argue the defense is at fault here at this point.

This is not an "off" year for Osgood -- this is his worse year EVER, and by no small margin.

Not directed at one person in particular, but goalies eventually lose it as they age, as do all players. Just like we could not pardon Hasek in the playoffs last year because of his history, we can not pardon Osgood. And Hasek was playing much better in the regular season than Osgood has all year.

Hell, Hasek played better last year in the playoffs, when he was yanked, than Osgood has been playing all year! That is how bad Osgood has been this year.

I would still maintain that while the quantity of shots we're allowing is good, the quality of some of the opposition's chances has been worse this year compared to previous ones. However, this is not an excuse for Ozzie, he has played terribly. I agree with your comparison of Ozzie and Dom, but if this is in fact a decline due to aging ... damn ... that was fast. Can you really go from Conn Smythe considerations to worst starter in the league in 3 months? This just seems like such a mental problem to me ... I don't know. I will say, I would hate to see him go out this way, so I'm really hoping he pulls through ...

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

Since November, I see absolutely no downgrade to our defense from last year. We just notice the bad plays more (which have always happened) just because the puck ends up in the back of the net more often -- and Ken and Mickey then point out what went wrong. Noting new, but more goals against.

All I can say is, I disagree. The Stuart-Kronwall pairing was a disaster and the fourth line has been a mess; and the rest of it's been out of sync and just not sharp. It's getting better but it's not great. Certainly better than November, when even Nick was having trouble. The defensive struggle has compounded with the shoddy goaltending to make the Wings goals against a bizarre contrast with their record, and likely the only reason it isn't in the absolute basement is because the Wings have the puck most of the time anyways.

[egroen 384]

All I can say is, I disagree. The Stuart-Kronwall pairing was a disaster and the fourth line has been a mess; and the rest of it's been out of sync and just not sharp. It's getting better but it's not great. Certainly better than November, when even Nick was having trouble. The defensive struggle has compounded with the shoddy goaltending to make the Wings goals against a bizarre contrast with their record, and likely the only reason it isn't in the absolute basement is because the Wings have the puck most of the time anyways.

I think Lilja is playing much better than last year and so is Lebda. Kronwall and Rafalski have always been guilty of retarded plays, they are just being pointed out to us more often now. This is all subjective of course, but I would say perhaps 10% of our increase in goals against are due to less stellar defense than last year, but a full 90% is due to abysmal goaltending.

It is a statistically weird year - that's for sure. The home and away PK difference has been crazy.

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

I think Lilja is playing much better than last year and so is Lebda. Kronwall and Rafalski have always been guilty of retarded plays, they are just being pointed out to us more often now. This is all subjective of course, but I would say perhaps 10% of our increase in goals against are due to less stellar defense than last year, but a full 90% is due to abysmal goaltending.

Well, we're far enough away from discussing things empirically that all I can say is I see it differently. I don't think that defensively the Wings are as bad as they're showing. When they get up for big games (Hawks, Sharks, Pens) they've played shut down hockey as good as I've seen but most nights they're bored and just mail it in. They don't play well and that hurts a goalie like Ozzie who's got no confidence right now (despite what he says to the media) and needs them to be strong for him.

If the playoffs started tomorrow, I don't wanna say the team would flip a switch, but I think the skaters would be OK. Ozzie on the other hand wouldn't be.

Edited February 18, 2009 by Heroes of Hockeytown

[The Secret 304]

I think Lilja is playing much better than last year and so is Lebda. Kronwall and Rafalski have always been guilty of retarded plays, they are just being pointed out to us more often now. This is all subjective of course, but I would say perhaps 10% of our increase in goals against are due to less stellar defense than last year, but a full 90% is due to abysmal goaltending.

It is a statistically weird year - that's for sure. The home and away PK difference has been crazy.

I'm on your side. Perhaps the slow start and mistakes by our usually stellar defense has a small part but the big difference lies squarely in the goalie's play.

Edited February 18, 2009 by The Secret

[egroen 384]

Watching games at the Joe, you can just see the low confidence level of Osgood so much more than on the tube - he just looks smaller out there than I have ever seen him. He is indecisive and hesitates a lot more - not sure whether to come out or go back in net. Very frustrating to watch.

In all honestly, I feel awful for him right now -- and I hope he can pull out of it. Quick.

[The Secret 304]

The frustrating thing for me is that we aren't asking him to carry the team like Kipprusoff has too, or to be as dominating as Luongo. Conklin looks like an all-star next to Osgood. All we need him to do is be his old mediocre best... thats it. I hope he can find at least that before too long.

[Guest Shoreline]

The Wings defense is currently 3rd in the NHL in shots allowed with 27.8 (first is 27.0). Yet the Wings are 18th in goals against per game. It's hard to argue the defense is at fault here at this point.

This doesn't even need statistics. Watch how the defense gets burned at the blue line or not taking a man out in front of the net. It's evident throughout the year. Wings could be in 18th, 28th, or 8th and the problem would still be evident.

Osgood may be having a statistically terrible year, and is also not bailing the defense out enough as most good goalies do, this season, but it's hard to base most of that bad save % as meaning much when the defense hangs him out to dry. Quality opportunities caused by fundamental defensive flaws can't really be equated statistically. If it could, there'd be no reason to have team coaches at ice level watching play happen.

[egroen 384]

This doesn't even need statistics. Watch how the defense gets burned at the blue line or not taking a man out in front of the net. It's evident throughout the year. Wings could be in 18th, 28th, or 8th and the problem would still be evident.

Osgood may be having a statistically terrible year, and is also not bailing the defense out enough as most good goalies do, this season, but it's hard to base most of that bad save % as meaning much when the defense hangs him out to dry. Quality opportunities caused by fundamental defensive flaws can't really be equated statistically. If it could, there'd be no reason to have team coaches at ice level watching play happen.

Unless you are arguing that the Detroit Red Wings have absolutely the worst defense in the league this year, this argument falls flat on its face. Almost every single game, I watch the Wings have more quality scoring opportunities than the oposing team -- their goalies just end up stopping a higher percent of them.

Osgood is having his worst year ever. Period. - it is not the fault of the defense. I can understand people arguing he still has time to improve, but I can't believe anyone still thinks Osgood is being hung out to dry by the Wings' defense.

[Guest Shoreline]

Unless you are arguing that the Detroit Red Wings have absolutely the worst defense in the league this year, this argument falls flat on its face. Almost every single game, I watch the Wings have more quality scoring opportunities than the oposing team -- their goalies just end up stopping a higher percent of them.

Osgood is having his worst year ever. Period. - it is not the fault of the defense. I can understand people arguing he still has time to improve, but I can't believe anyone still thinks Osgood is being hung out to dry by the Wings' defense.

I won't argue Osgood is having a bad year. Again, don't need statistics to show it. He's not making saves on things he should be as often as he was last year. There are other goalies who have bad years and have decent save %'s. The Red Wings have made a habit this year, with their bad defense, of allowing too many of those low shot totals to be quality opportunities. A team can throw as many pucks to the net as they like. Like Osgood's save %, it doesn't tell the whole story. The defense, which includes Osgood, have plainly sucked this year. We aren't saying it's time to throw the defense away. Osgood simply needs to get back info form or risk losing his position for the playoffs. Even so, I wouldn't be against Conklin being last year's Osgood.

Edited February 18, 2009 by Shoreline

[YoungGuns1340 1]

I won't argue Osgood is having a bad year. Again, don't need statistics to show it. He's not making saves on things he should be as often as he was last year. There are other goalies who have bad years and have decent save %'s. The Red Wings have made a habit this year, with their bad defense, of allowing too many of those low shot totals to be quality opportunities. A team can throw as many pucks to the net as they like. Like Osgood's save %, it doesn't tell the whole story. The defense, which includes Osgood, have plainly sucked this year. We aren't saying it's time to throw the defense away. Osgood simply needs to get back info form or risk losing his position for the playoffs. Even so, I wouldn't be against Conklin being last year's Osgood.

I'm not going to argue the defense hasn't been bad, but while the defense may be 50/50, Osgood has been about 10/90.

Also, I simply think there are too many factors to go against the "the wings play better in front of Conklin" argument. To begin with, Conklin sees MORE shots than Ozzie, yet his save percentage is drastically better. Same with his GAA. And if the Wings play worse defense in front of Ozzie, in conjunction with his poor play or "bad bounces", then how come he has a record of 18-5-7. Bad bounces + poor goaltending + bad defense is a lot for the offense to overcome in order to pull off the win, as opposed to simply bad defense alone.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

The frustrating thing for me is that we aren't asking him to carry the team like Kipprusoff has too, or to be as dominating as Luongo. Conklin looks like an all-star next to Osgood. All we need him to do is be his old mediocre best... thats it. I hope he can find at least that before too long.

Agreed. I love Ozzie as a Red Wing - he got some of the loudest cheers at the Stanley Cup Parade from the crowd - but its gotten to the point where several times this season the Wings have to win in spite of Osgood.

[SweWings 45]

Hey I just realized something. Toronto is gonna try to get rid of a lot of players by the deadline. Guess who's available? Wouldn't it be nice to have him back in a Wings uniform?

[Dabura 12,207]

Welp, It's official, Ozzie is our man for the playoffs.

Likely, but not definite. I'm not trying to slight our tandem, but, like I said, of course Kenny's going to say he's not looking. I'm sure he has his eyes and ears open for potential deals -- he'd be a fool to close the door completely.

Which isn't to say I expect an upgrade in net. We'll get a new d-man before a new goalie, methinks.

[NomadFromKazoo 42]

Watching games at the Joe, you can just see the low confidence level of Osgood so much more than on the tube - he just looks smaller out there than I have ever seen him.

Maybe you were just watching him on a big TV...

But seriously, I have a hard time believing Babcock would be playing Ozzie if he were playing scared. And frankly Ozzie's been in the toughest job in Detroit a lot of years between his two stints, which includes the choice to come back and then sign an extension. If he can last here this long I just don't see how he could now have his confidence shot eight months after being in the net winning the Cup. I have a hard time with the smell test.