Norris Nick...Runner Up Ralf?

[Booster313 138]

Lidstrom is quietly climbing the points rankings everyday...the question is. Is it too quietly and too late for a seventh career Norris win?

Why is Chara the favorite when he has 9 less overall points than Lidstrom and a slightly lower plus/minus?

And Finally Brian Rafalski is currently ranked second in defensive scoring yet I've heard narry a mention of his name in contention for the Norris, why?

I would like to see Lidstrom win it this year and next, to tie Bobby Orr for most Norris wins and I think that he not only has a shot but deserves it. As bad as the Red Wings PK has been for Nik's +/- to be where it is, is a feet in itself and to be playing at such a high level at 39 years old also speaks volumes.

Comment Away

Edited February 24, 2009 by Booster313

[Shaman 713]

I think he'll get it this year, the people who decide know their hockey and know lids..

..PS I wont say it will be a run away but I really see the Lids taking it for atleast the next 2 years cause hes still the best in the game.

Edited February 24, 2009 by Shaman464

[thedisappearer 291]

for a seventh consecutive Norris win?

Mathematically impossible. For 4 more years.

[seeinred 1,488]

As bad as the Red Wings PK has been for Nik's +/- to be where it is, is a feet in itself and to be playing at such a high level at 39 years old also speaks volumes.

Unless Nick has been in the box for all those goals, his +/- stays the same on a PPG.

[Echolalia 2,961]

Theres about 20 more games to be played. That's a pretty big chunk of hockey. If he continues on his pace and Chara and Rafalski and Green and whoever else has been mentioned for the Norris continue their paces, I think Lidstrom should win it this year. What I'm worried about is voting for a new Norris Trophy winner just for the sake of a new winner. That's why Chara and Green seem so attractive this year, but who knows what'll happen. And its way way too early to tell whether he deserves it next year.

[Booster313 138]

Unless Nick has been in the box for all those goals, his +/- stays the same on a PPG.

True...I always forget that PPG don't affect +/-.

[Booster313 138]

What I'm worried about is voting for a new Norris Trophy winner just for the sake of a new winner. That's why Chara and Green seem so attractive this year, but who knows what'll happen. And its way way too early to tell whether he deserves it next year.

That's the main reason I believe we have been hearing so much hype about Chara.

And to clarify I meant Nik deserves it this year...I would like to see him win if the next two.

[Booster313 138]

Mathematically impossible. For 4 more years.

Corrected...forgot about Neidermayer

[eva unit zero 271]

Lidstrom is quietly climbing the points rankings everyday...the question is. Is it too quietly and too late for a seventh consecutive Norris win?

Why is Chara the favorite when he has 9 less overall points than Lidstrom and a slightly lower plus/minus?

And Finally Brian Rafalski is currently ranked second in defensive scoring yet I've heard narry a mention of his name in contention for the Norris, why?

I would like to see Lidstrom win it this year and next, to tie Bobby Orr for most Norris wins and I think that he not only has a shot but deserves it. As bad as the Red Wings PK has been for Nik's +/- to be where it is, is a feet in itself and to be playing at such a high level at 39 years old also speaks volumes.

Comment Away

For the Red Wings' PK to be as bad as it is wouldn't affect Nick's +/- in a negative way; power play goals scored do not count for either team for purposes of +/-.

The people who vote for the Norris aren't going to just be basing it on stats; because if they do, Niklas Kronwall is a better overall defenseman than Dion Phaneuf, and we all know that's not happening this season.

[Earthhuman 8]

The people who vote for the Norris aren't going to just be basing it on stats; because if they do, Niklas Kronwall is a better overall defenseman than Dion Phaneuf, and we all know that's not happening this season.

[/font]

Phaneuf, not to mention Chara.

[VM1138 1,921]

Theres about 20 more games to be played. That's a pretty big chunk of hockey. If he continues on his pace and Chara and Rafalski and Green and whoever else has been mentioned for the Norris continue their paces, I think Lidstrom should win it this year. What I'm worried about is voting for a new Norris Trophy winner just for the sake of a new winner. That's why Chara and Green seem so attractive this year, but who knows what'll happen. And its way way too early to tell whether he deserves it next year.

Yeah, we all know how change for the sake of change is turning out...

[Krayzie_Bone 58]

I have a feeling he will not win it this year. I think Green will get it or maybe Chara or even Shea Webber.

Edited February 24, 2009 by Krayzie_Bone

[BeeRYCE 2]

If Chara doesn't win, he'll at least be a runner up, and yeah Green will be a runner up too.

I think the 3 will be Lidstrom, Chara, and Green in whatever way you want to put it.

[eva unit zero 271]

Phaneuf, not to mention Chara.

Chara has better numbers than Kronwall. The +24 difference between the two is the most startling. Kronner was +9 compared to Phaneuf, yet he's -24 compared to Chara. Here are the stats for everyone for some expected Norris contenders, plus how Kronwall's stats compare to the guys who are currently in the Norris race.

Green 47GP, 22g-30a-52pt, +26, 48PIM, 24ESP, 27PPP, 1SHP

Rafalski 60GP, 8g-42a-50pt, +14, 16PIM, 27ESP, 23PPP, 0SHP

Markov 60GP, 7g-40a-47pt, -4, 30PIM, 17ESP, 29PPP, 1SHP

Lidstrom 57GP, 12g-32a-44pt, +23, 22PIM, 17ESP, 27PPP, 0SHP

Boyle 52GP, 14g-29a-43pt, +15, 38PIM, 21ESP, 21PPP, 1SHP

Niedermayer 61GP, 8g-33a-41pt, -10, 58PIM, 14ESP, 25PPP, 2SHP

Wideman 59GP, 12g-28a-40pt, +26, 18PIM, 17ESP, 22PPP, 1SHP

Blake 55GP, 9g-28a-37pt, +21, 89PIM, 19ESP, 18PPP, 0SHP

Kronwall 58GP, 2g-35a-37pt, -2, 36PIM, 21ESP, 16PPP, 0SHP

Pronger 61GP, 10g-26a-36pt, -2, 72PIM, 15ESP, 20PPP, 1SHP

Chara 60GP, 14g-21a-35pt, +22, 64PIM, 14ESP, 20PPP, 1SHP

Phaneuf 59GP, 7g-27a-34pt, -11, 72PIM, 17ESP, 17PPP, 0SHP

Weber 59GP, 15g-19a-34pt, +4, 59PIM, 21ESP, 11PPP, 2SHP

Keith 54GP, 7g-25a-32pt, +31, 36PIM, 23ESP, 8PPP, 1SHP

Stats would suggest that right now, this season, Kronwall is better than Niedermayer, Phaneuf, and Pronger...all of whom are likely to be mentioned in Norris voting this year.

[Guest Shoreline]

If the voting were done today I think the three finalists would be Lidstrom, Green, and Boyle, with Green or Boyle taking it. I think Lids rough start will be enough for the writers who vote to find an excuse not to vote him in for Norris winner. Green has been making all the headlines, he has the stats that don't make him out to be a one-way player like Souray (since the award is to the best all around defenseman), the writers love great stories like this, so I can see them eating this stuff up.

Edited February 24, 2009 by Shoreline

[wmubronco420 25]

as long as the people who actually decide who wins the trophies dont care about tv ratings, or exciting play, then lidstrom will win it. He's just so good sometimes you dont even notice the stuff he does because its so effortless. I have faith in the NHL's trophy voting system although i dont know who its made up of

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Yeah, we all know how change for the sake of change is turning out...

Yeah! It's already been a month! Why hasn't Obama fixed the mess the Republicans made over the last 8 years yet? Lower taxes would sure fix things! Once corporate taxes go down jobs magically appear! Making work won't make jobs, I mean that didn't end the depression, did it? Oh yeah- it did. Go read a book instead of the Republican's Orwellian talking points.

[seeinred 1,488]

Yeah! It's already been a month! Why hasn't Obama fixed the mess the Republicans made over the last 8 years yet? Lower taxes would sure fix things! Once corporate taxes go down jobs magically appear! Making work won't make jobs, I mean that didn't end the depression, did it? Oh yeah- it did. Go read a book instead of the Republican's Orwellian talking points.

This will get fun.

Oh, and you're wrong, because it didn't.

Edited February 24, 2009 by SeeinRed

[Drake_Marcus 890]

This will get fun.

Oh, and you're wrong, because it didn't.

Ohhhkaay. So what you're saying is the huge influx of jobs created by government spending on military buildups and contracts with European nations that required weapons for WWII didn't end the depression?

No you're not going to say that. You're going to say that the New Deal didn't end the depression- the situation outlined above did. Well without the massive infrastructure provided by the New Deal and the general slowing/easing of the depression created by the ND there is no late 1930's economic upturn from war profiteering. One had to come before the other.

It should be noted that "tax cuts" have never helped fix a major recession and that the rest of the planet has been using economic stimulus to some effect rather than tax cuts to no effect.

[seeinred 1,488]

Ohhhkaay. So what you're saying is the huge influx of jobs created by government spending on military buildups and contracts with European nations that required weapons for WWII didn't end the depression?

No you're not going to say that. You're going to say that the New Deal didn't end the depression- the situation outlined above did. Well without the massive infrastructure provided by the New Deal and the general slowing/easing of the depression created by the ND there is no late 1930's economic upturn from war profiteering. One had to come before the other.

It should be noted that "tax cuts" have never helped fix a major recession and that the rest of the planet has been using economic stimulus to some effect rather than tax cuts to no effect.

That's actually not what I was going to say. But I'm a ***** and don't want to get yelled at by a mod so I'll wait until they move this to get involved

[norrisnick 1]

That's actually not what I was going to say. But I'm a ***** and don't want to get yelled at by a mod so I'll wait until they move this to get involved

You best stfu before your ass gets bann't!

And to the OP, the reason Raf doesn't get mentioned for the Norris is because he's spectacularly worthless on defense for a $6M/yr defenseman.

[egroen 384]

Chara, Green and Lidstrom are the front-runners now - with Keith (terribily underrated) and Wideman looking on from the outside. Weber's game has not been good the second half of the season and Green is everything Boyle is - but even more offense.

Despite not being as strong defensively, Green has a crazy plus/minus that could give him the win if he scores 30 goals and 80 points. Chara has been annointed since the first month of the season when Lidstrom showed chinks in his armor. It's going to be pretty close this year, but if Lidstrom keeps up his play, I strongly feel he deserves it and hope the voting agrees. The Wings atrocious goals against may be used against him, as well.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

Chara is the frontrunner right now in the minds of most people not on LGW, primarily because he's never won before, because Boston has sucked for a long time and are now good again, and because he's put up some good numbers this year.

If Green wins, it'll be the worst Norris winner ever, since he makes Paul Coffey look great defensively. However, if he continues to put up goals game after game, I can envision him winning it.

The only way I see Lidstrom winning again is if he puts up huge numbers towards the end, the team improves defensively, and one of the other finalists gets injured. Right now, I don't see voters going for Lidstrom as the winner. Of course the consensus around here is different, but I doubt that anyone on LGW is going to be doing the actual voting.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Chara, Green and Lidstrom are the front-runners now - with Keith (terribily underrated) and Wideman looking on from the outside. Weber's game has not been good the second half of the season and Green is everything Boyle is - but even more offense.

Despite not being as strong defensively, Green has a crazy plus/minus that could give him the win if he scores 30 goals and 80 points. Chara has been annointed since the first month of the season when Lidstrom showed chinks in his armor. It's going to be pretty close this year, but if Lidstrom keeps up his play, I strongly feel he deserves it and hope the voting agrees. The Wings atrocious goals against may be used against him, as well.

IMHO, as of this moment it is Chara's to lose.

Green doesn't get the recognition for his defensive game b/c it simply is not as good as the others.

Rafalski simply isn't going to win it.

Niedermayer/Pronger, nope

Markov would be in the group of 4-6 finalists.

Keith would probably be 4th or 5th

Weber, Phaneuf, Blake, simply not good enough to trump the top 2 and Mike Green.

It comes down really to the best all around dmen in the game, which are Lidstrom and Chara.

And the one glaring thing, the thing that may seal it for Chara regardless of where the +/- and points falls for each is this:

Goals Allowed

Boston 137 2nd

Detroit 177 19th

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

but I doubt that anyone on LGW is going to be doing the actual voting.

You don't know that!

EDIT - these upcoming playoffs will have a big impact on these 3 as well.

Voting for all the regular season awards is done before the playoffs start.