Red Wings fans

[mikiemike24 0]

Every game I have been to the past five years I've seen the most ridiculous fans at Red Wings games. I have never seen this topic brought up but I am fairly new to these forums so I dont know if its been talked about.

1. Why are there so many people strolling into the rink late? Don't get me wrong, I know things come up and there is traffic but it seems like it happens all of the time.

2. Why are people up and down non-stop during the period? This isn't a friday night high school football game, I actually go to see my team play which is kind of hard when people are standing in front of me all of the time. I missed two playoff goals last year because someone was going down to get something to eat.

3. If you need to go up or down, how about a tv time out or even a stop in the play. While you're doing that, maybe you could hustle a little bit.

4. Why are there so many people who have no clue where there seats are? Its really not that hard, and if it is, please ask an usher and they will show you exactly where to go. It seems like I miss at least five minutes of the first period with these people standing in front of me, looking all over for there seats.

5. Why is staying until the end of the game so hard? I understand that everyone wants to beat the rush but if there is only a 1 or 2 goal difference in the game, everyone should stay. Again things come up and people have to get to work or school in the morning, but again please at least try to leave during a tv timeout or at least a stopage.

Anyway, this has been bothering me for the past few years and so I just wanted to see what other fans thought. The last straw was listening to the swedes talk about how they are looking to play in front of their fans back home next year. You will hear subtle jabs about the fans in Detroit. I think Franzen says something like, "The fans back home don't get up in the middle of the game to get a burger." Its pretty embarassing when your own team notices how many people don't pay attention to the game. You can hear the wings talk about the fans on Red Wings tv- Wings to Sweden.

Yes, I am a season ticket holder and I actually go to see the Red Wings play. Let me know your thoughts.

[seeinred 1,488]

Who are you to tell someone how to be a fan?

FWIW, I stay in my seat and all that s*** too, but I don't think less of people who don't.

[mikiemike24 0]

Who are you to tell someone how to be a fan?

FWIW, I stay in my seat and all that s*** too, but I don't think less of people who don't.

A. I don't like to pay money to see some guy stand in front of me while I'm trying to watch the game.

B. A- is even worse when you pay more for playoff tickets and end up missing goals.

C. When the players notice, there is probably something wrong.

D. I asked for thoughts, no reason to be a hard on about this. If you like watching people stand in front you thats fine, but I don't.

[seeinred 1,488]

A. I don't like to pay money to see some guy stand in front of me while I'm trying to watch the game.

B. A- is even worse when you pay more for playoff tickets and end up missing goals.

C. When the players notice, there is probably something wrong.

D. I asked for thoughts, no reason to be a hard on about this. If you like watching people stand in front you thats fine, but I don't.

It's fine to have your opinions about how people should behave at games, but to insinuate that people are lesser fans than you because they don't comport themselves in the way you think they should is ridiculous.

[pucker4fischer 0]

I can understand why you're bothered, and especially as a season ticket holder you probably see it all the time. I people watch when I go from time to time and it just seems like many people do not have any game edicate.

A couple things I've noticed when I'm at a game:

1. Probably various reasons. Work, weather, farting around...

2. The lines at the concession stands and bathrooms are redonkulous at the intermissions. People either exit before the period ends to get into line quick enough to not to take a leak in their pants.

3. As far as husseling, I seen someone take a tumble going up and going down the JLA steps (maybe they were a lil tipsy too, or had to get to the bathroom). They're kind of steep. If I've had a couple beers, I have to concentrate to climb them. Also, I remember a lady once seriously freaked out because she was sitting way too high.

4. Many people can't afford season tickets like yourself so they don't go often enough and/or don't understand the logistics of seat arrangements

5. My church pastor gets t'd off for the same reason when people arrive late and leave early for a sunday service. Nearly half the church does it. It doesn't suprise me people do it at a hockey game. Also, people are in a hurry to get out before traffic backs up.

...just my two cents. I suggest you let it roll off of your shoulders---or stand up to look over them---afterall, its a public and social event, there isn't anything you're going to do about it. I watch pretty much every game at home without the people obstructing my view. But when I got the money to spend on a game, its always a good time, I don't notice it so much since I don't go as often.

[Guest Shoreline]

Sadly, OP, some of these questions are kind of ridiculous and overly nitpicking of very small and trivial things given you're at a public event.

For the excitement factor, my guess is you hang around too many season ticket holders. That's like hanging around season pass holders at Six Flags and expecting they be orgasmic over the rides each and every time. Don't expect it.

Nextly, I don't give two s***s how they do it in Sweden when I'm attending a game here. This is the US, they are Sweden. Two different countries, two different cultures. People have their reasons for leaving a period or the game early, so be it. They have reasons for being late. So be it. People have their own schedule, they spend their money the way they want and can leave the game early if they want. I just don't see the big deal here.

[mikiemike24 0]

Sadly, OP, some of these questions are kind of ridiculous and overly nitpicking of very small and trivial things given you're at a public event.

For the excitement factor, my guess is you hang around too many season ticket holders. That's like hanging around season pass holders at Six Flags and expecting they be orgasmic over the rides each and every time. Don't expect it.

Nextly, I don't give two s***s how they do it in Sweden when I'm attending a game here. This is the US, they are Sweden. Two different countries, two different cultures. People have their reasons for leaving a period or the game early, so be it. They have reasons for being late. So be it. People have their own schedule, they spend their money the way they want and can leave the game early if they want. I just don't see the big deal here.

You're a Red Wings fan but you don't care about what the Red Wings say? I'm not sure if that makes sense.

Also, Six Flags. What?

[Guest Shoreline]

You're a Red Wings fan but you don't care about what the Red Wings say? I'm not sure if that makes sense.

Erm, I wouldn't ever listen to any player of any team I'm a fan of tell me how to be a fan, even worse, suggest I act like fans from another country and nitpick what people here commonly do in getting up early to leave the game or for a food/bathroom/stretch break just before the period is over. I'd give them the middle finger and tell them if they aren't satisfied with the way I cheer my team on that they go to that country and get bent.

Now, regarding the simple complaint (outside of the Sweden/US thing) about fans moving back and forth during game time, if the JLA is anything like the HP, people who come and go to their seats in the middle of the period, rather than the beginning/end, tend to get hassled by security for good reason, as they become an annoyance to other fans.

Also, Six Flags. What?

Six Flags is a theme park chain. They have season passes. People who have season passes clearly are more nonchalant about rides/attractions and things most other people who don't have season passes are far more excited about, so maybe rather than staying in the park the entire day those with season passes are more likely to be there just for the early rides (i.e. short lines) and go home before lunch, while those who never go are there all day. Think about this in terms of being at the arena. There's a million reasons to be late to a game, or even leave early. They paid for the ticket, so I don't get why they must adhere to some strict policy. It's entertainment, not a courtroom hearing.

[Doc Holiday 0]

Every game I have been to the past five years I've seen the most ridiculous fans at Red Wings games. I have never seen this topic brought up but I am fairly new to these forums so I dont know if its been talked about.

1. Why are there so many people strolling into the rink late? Don't get me wrong, I know things come up and there is traffic but it seems like it happens all of the time.

2. Why are people up and down non-stop during the period? This isn't a friday night high school football game, I actually go to see my team play which is kind of hard when people are standing in front of me all of the time. I missed two playoff goals last year because someone was going down to get something to eat.

3. If you need to go up or down, how about a tv time out or even a stop in the play. While you're doing that, maybe you could hustle a little bit.

4. Why are there so many people who have no clue where there seats are? Its really not that hard, and if it is, please ask an usher and they will show you exactly where to go. It seems like I miss at least five minutes of the first period with these people standing in front of me, looking all over for there seats.

5. Why is staying until the end of the game so hard? I understand that everyone wants to beat the rush but if there is only a 1 or 2 goal difference in the game, everyone should stay. Again things come up and people have to get to work or school in the morning, but again please at least try to leave during a tv timeout or at least a stopage.

Anyway, this has been bothering me for the past few years and so I just wanted to see what other fans thought. The last straw was listening to the swedes talk about how they are looking to play in front of their fans back home next year. You will hear subtle jabs about the fans in Detroit. I think Franzen says something like, "The fans back home don't get up in the middle of the game to get a burger." Its pretty embarassing when your own team notices how many people don't pay attention to the game. You can hear the wings talk about the fans on Red Wings tv- Wings to Sweden.

Yes, I am a season ticket holder and I actually go to see the Red Wings play. Let me know your thoughts.

Have you ever thought of the crazy idea that all teams have fans like that?

[softshoes 83]

If you like fans that sit at the game I suggest a football game in Ann Arbor.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Every game I have been to the past five years I've seen the most ridiculous fans at Red Wings games. I have never seen this topic brought up but I am fairly new to these forums so I dont know if its been talked about.

1. Why are there so many people strolling into the rink late? Don't get me wrong, I know things come up and there is traffic but it seems like it happens all of the time.

2. Why are people up and down non-stop during the period? This isn't a friday night high school football game, I actually go to see my team play which is kind of hard when people are standing in front of me all of the time. I missed two playoff goals last year because someone was going down to get something to eat.

3. If you need to go up or down, how about a tv time out or even a stop in the play. While you're doing that, maybe you could hustle a little bit.

4. Why are there so many people who have no clue where there seats are? Its really not that hard, and if it is, please ask an usher and they will show you exactly where to go. It seems like I miss at least five minutes of the first period with these people standing in front of me, looking all over for there seats.

5. Why is staying until the end of the game so hard? I understand that everyone wants to beat the rush but if there is only a 1 or 2 goal difference in the game, everyone should stay. Again things come up and people have to get to work or school in the morning, but again please at least try to leave during a tv timeout or at least a stopage.

Anyway, this has been bothering me for the past few years and so I just wanted to see what other fans thought. The last straw was listening to the swedes talk about how they are looking to play in front of their fans back home next year. You will hear subtle jabs about the fans in Detroit. I think Franzen says something like, "The fans back home don't get up in the middle of the game to get a burger." Its pretty embarassing when your own team notices how many people don't pay attention to the game. You can hear the wings talk about the fans on Red Wings tv- Wings to Sweden.

Yes, I am a season ticket holder and I actually go to see the Red Wings play. Let me know your thoughts.

1. Basically answered your own question. People get there late, etc. Nothing really to overanalyze.

2. People have to use the bathroom or are getting something to eat. Nothing really to overanalyze here either.

3. See #2.

4. Not sure what to tell you.

5. Would be nice if people would stay to end sometimes, but that's their choice.

All teams have similar issues more or less, and I think you are overanalyzing a bit.

[Spinner 6]

I'm lucky if I get to go to 1 game a year. (Going Saturday bty...YAY) anyways, I get there as soon as I can. The first thing I do is find my seat and then I go to concessions and get my not needed but truly desired in obligitory over-priced snacks and soda. I only get up during the game if I absolutely have too. Maybe a lot of those people absolutely have to. I have noted that if you leave during a period, you can't get back in until a whistle blows, so I try avoid leaving at all cost. I always stay til after they spotlight the top 3 after the game. I just want to say that I've been to football games, baseball...etc but the atmosphere at the Joe is totally awesome campared to any sprting event I've been to anywhere else. I'm sure there are other fans like me who are in total awe of the whole experience because it is a great experience going to the Joe for those of us who rarely get to go to a game. So I don't have any problem with what the other fans do at a game. I would only have a problem with someone being obnoxious and/or intentionally rude.

Now my questions.

1. Do you have to have a ticket for the lower level to get down to the ice on the pregame skate. And is it hard to get someone to sign a jersey? I'd like to try and get my jersey signed if possible. I'm thinking about wearing my Chelios jersey if he plays. I don't think he'll be playing too much longer and I might not have another chance. If not I'll wear my Datsyuk and the wife has Z's

2. Which would be better to visit. Hockeytown Cafe or Cheli's Chili. I've been to the Cafe but no one in the group has and none of us has been to Cheli's either.

[I Red Wings I 40]

Overanalyze? This is a topic I can definitely relate to, I'm always finding myself asking the same questions. Just last week against San Jose, why is it that people start to pour in just after the Star Spangled Banner. Why is everyone leaving when there is 7:00 to play in the third period? No, this is not what's going on in every hockey club, believe it or not, there are fans out there who stick it out for the whole game.

[Kevvie 0]

People paid their money for their ticket, so when they get there or when they leave, is their choice. I get the feeling you are not seeing thousands of people all doing these things. I also get the feeling you are not seeing one person doing all of these things. Thousands of people in one place will make you see lots of different situations. You can't attribute all of your issues to one person or thousands of people. Maybe a few people have the scoots, so they have to go to the bathroom right now. Maybe some don't have the luxury of getting off work early to go to a hockey game. Some may have to get the babysitter home by a certain time. How many of those that can't find their seat have never been to JLA, have you offered to help them?

Just smile at the people around you, and say hello. They paid good money to see a hockey game, not get criticized because they don't operate on your schedule with your experience. They are fans. Maybe, some of them are not Red Wing fans, but fans of the opposing team. Nevertheless, they are fans of a great game that we all appreciate and watch with our own level of intensity. What's next...the people who don't jump and scream when a goal is scored, but just clap and maybe throw their hands in the air? At home watching a game, I get right into it, yelling and screaming, cheering wildly. But at an arena, I'm more subdued, as I don't like to draw attention to myself.

Don't tell people how to be a fan. It's very irritating.

Edit: Spelling

Edited March 2, 2009 by Kevvie

[JayUp88 1]

1. Why are there so many people strolling into the rink late? Don't get me wrong, I know things come up and there is traffic but it seems like it happens all of the time.

I completely agree with you on most all of those. Great great points. I do want to defend your first one somewhat. I'm at the Joe almost every game but I can't always make it there to be sitting by the puck drop. A lot of time I get stuck late at work or the person I am bring can't get out early to get down there early. It happens and its just not easy with work.

[OsGOD 3]

The last straw was listening to the swedes talk about how they are looking to play in front of their fans back home next year. You will hear subtle jabs about the fans in Detroit. I think Franzen says something like, "The fans back home don't get up in the middle of the game to get a burger." Its pretty embarassing when your own team notices how many people don't pay attention to the game. You can hear the wings talk about the fans on Red Wings tv- Wings to Sweden.

Thank god the Foreigners are going back to sweden then for the first two games of next season Eh? I don't really care at all what the fans in sweden do... cause this is America not sweden... Maybe the players should concentrate more on the job they are getting paid to do (and less on the fans who are paying) then a 8-0 ass kicking wouldn't happen.

As for the Arriving to games late... its called traffic. Nobody who attends the games lives in Detroit... Most are about 35-45mins away and heading down there during rush hour makes for a some tricky timing... Luckily my Girlfriend lives about 20mins north so we can get there in plenty of time.

Edited March 2, 2009 by OsGOD

[Wingsin09 0]

Every game I have been to the past five years I've seen the most ridiculous fans at Red Wings games. I have never seen this topic brought up but I am fairly new to these forums so I dont know if its been talked about.

1. Why are there so many people strolling into the rink late? Don't get me wrong, I know things come up and there is traffic but it seems like it happens all of the time.

2. Why are people up and down non-stop during the period? This isn't a friday night high school football game, I actually go to see my team play which is kind of hard when people are standing in front of me all of the time. I missed two playoff goals last year because someone was going down to get something to eat.

3. If you need to go up or down, how about a tv time out or even a stop in the play. While you're doing that, maybe you could hustle a little bit.

4. Why are there so many people who have no clue where there seats are? Its really not that hard, and if it is, please ask an usher and they will show you exactly where to go. It seems like I miss at least five minutes of the first period with these people standing in front of me, looking all over for there seats.

5. Why is staying until the end of the game so hard? I understand that everyone wants to beat the rush but if there is only a 1 or 2 goal difference in the game, everyone should stay. Again things come up and people have to get to work or school in the morning, but again please at least try to leave during a tv timeout or at least a stopage.

Anyway, this has been bothering me for the past few years and so I just wanted to see what other fans thought. The last straw was listening to the swedes talk about how they are looking to play in front of their fans back home next year. You will hear subtle jabs about the fans in Detroit. I think Franzen says something like, "The fans back home don't get up in the middle of the game to get a burger." Its pretty embarassing when your own team notices how many people don't pay attention to the game. You can hear the wings talk about the fans on Red Wings tv- Wings to Sweden.

Yes, I am a season ticket holder and I actually go to see the Red Wings play. Let me know your thoughts.

You have a few points that have been bothering me for a while as well. But you sound a bit extremist. I know when I have been to the Joe, I get there 45 minutes prior, and immediately consume mass quantities of fine Molson lager. There is a good chance after drinking 3 or four of them in a period may result in me having to throw a wizz, probably in an expeditious manor. What do you want me to do? Throw on some Depends before I go to the Game?, just so I don't get up in front of you with 10 or 15 ticks left in the period? Nawww son.

However, I do feel we could be doing a much better job when it comes to "representing" our beloved Wings. I make it back home to see games maybe twice a year, and go to Dallas whenever the Wings are in town. I watch the rest of the games on NHL center ice, and I mean ALL of them. There seems to be a big difference in how, for instance, Dallas fans get pumped up for the games. Now I am NOT saying that they are at all better fans or any of that s***, but maybe Wings fans have become a little complacent, and are used to winning, and thus not as excited as we used to be.

Remember back in the mid ninety's? The Joe was packed to the gills, no one left early, everyone stood up and screamed with every goal. Now? not so much

That doesn't mean we "aren't real fans". With this heap-o-s*** economy, combined with a continued tradition of winning year in and out, I think we tend to wait till the playoffs to get back to the old days. I bet if we had a few years of mediocrity, and then a promising year, you would see things back to the way they were.

On a side note. To all those f***-nuts who like to stand up and wave at the camera with their cell phones when the play is at either end, PLEASE STOP. Your an ass bag, and no one gives a nut-filled s*** that your on the phone talking to someone watching the game.

Just my $.02

[Spinner 6]

On a side note. To all those f***-nuts who like to stand up and wave at the camera with their cell phones when the play is at either end, PLEASE STOP. Your an ass bag, and no one gives a nut-filled s*** that your on the phone talking to someone watching the game.

Just my $.02

Amen

[Spinner 6]

sorry - double post

Edited March 2, 2009 by Spinner

[talex 1]

I'm lucky if I get to go to 1 game a year. (Going Saturday bty...YAY) anyways, I get there as soon as I can. The first thing I do is find my seat and then I go to concessions and get my not needed but truly desired in obligitory over-priced snacks and soda. I only get up during the game if I absolutely have too. Maybe a lot of those people absolutely have to. I have noted that if you leave during a period, you can't get back in until a whistle blows, so I try avoid leaving at all cost. I always stay til after they spotlight the top 3 after the game. I just want to say that I've been to football games, baseball...etc but the atmosphere at the Joe is totally awesome campared to any sprting event I've been to anywhere else. I'm sure there are other fans like me who are in total awe of the whole experience because it is a great experience going to the Joe for those of us who rarely get to go to a game. So I don't have any problem with what the other fans do at a game. I would only have a problem with someone being obnoxious and/or intentionally rude.

Now my questions.

1. Do you have to have a ticket for the lower level to get down to the ice on the pregame skate. And is it hard to get someone to sign a jersey? I'd like to try and get my jersey signed if possible. I'm thinking about wearing my Chelios jersey if he plays. I don't think he'll be playing too much longer and I might not have another chance. If not I'll wear my Datsyuk and the wife has Z's

2. Which would be better to visit. Hockeytown Cafe or Cheli's Chili. I've been to the Cafe but no one in the group has and none of us has been to Cheli's either.

1st my 2 cents. I cannot stand it when people stand in front, it is not a detroit thing, it's rude and obnoxious, however I usually only get mad when it's a couple bubble heads not paying attention to the game, taking pictures of themselves etc and standing during play, people are going to stand when something is happening, I join them and then I can see.

To answer your 2 questions.

1. You are allowed to go down during the warm up pre-game skate to take pictures, watch etc.

2. Basically the same place, although I am speaking of the Chelis in Clinton Twnshp. Same type of menu and atmosphere, both have pretty good food.

[Vladifan 680]

On a side note. To all those f***-nuts who like to stand up and wave at the camera with their cell phones when the play is at either end, PLEASE STOP. Your an ass bag, and no one gives a nut-filled s*** that your on the phone talking to someone watching the game.

Just my $.02

Living 1200 miles away from Deetroit, most of the original poster's gripes don't affect me a whole lot, except for the extreme eye-rolling and sighing I experienced.

However, being 1200 miles away and watching the knee-jerk/jack-in-the-box idiots jump up and down and wave like they're auditioning for the next Jonas Bros audience is indeed maddening. If I were sitting behind one, I'd probably give 'em a foot in the back of their knees just to watch 'em buckle. Heh heh....

[Zetterbeard40 0]

I'm going to have to agree with the original poster on this topic and I will state my reasons why. As a season ticket holder I get to see this all too much, and it makes a good case for the people that say that Detroit isn't hockeytown anymore. For starters, there is a rule at Joe Louis that states, "That you cannot go to your seats until the play has stopped". For some reason, people believe they can go to their seats whenever they want, during the play. Well I'll have to agree that this does get super annoying, especially when they dont know where their seats are and block the play for 5 minutes. Secondly, most red wings games are at 7:30, so there should be no reason to be late. It takes Jow louis until around the second period to have all sold seats filled. As has been the case for years, the lower bowl is almost always 1/3 empty, due to corporate slugs not even in their seats and probably drinking in the Olympia room. Why pay 100+ for your seat if you're not even going to watch the game. The one that pisses me off the most is when fans leave with 4 minutes left in the game. Ive seen it happen every game whether its a 1 goal or 4 goal game. We might as well start calling detroit "avoidtraffictown". Don't get me wrong, i can understand that some people dont like waiting in traffic, but didnt you know that was going to happen when you realized you were going to a professional sporting event with excess of 20,000 fans attending. I'll be the first to say, and especially as a Canadian Red Wings fan, that we have some of the weakest fans in the league. We dont cheer loud, we dont chant, other than the occasional "Lets go red wings" chant which is weak to say the least, and all the more often I hear people say dumb stuff in the stands. Although I'll be the first to say we have the best hockey team and organization in the league, our fanship "at the game" does not warrant the Title Hockeytown. Im sure everyone who checks out this board is a pretty hardcore hockey and detroit fan, but the original poster is right, our fans at the games are weak. We dont even cheer when the "Buffalo Wild Wings Noise Meter" shows up on the screen. Maybe its that red wings fans are spoiled with winning, but if thats the case, then thats bulls***, because you should never take a winning team for granted. Teams like toronto/montreal/minnesota/other wouldnt dare leave early or leave their seats during the middle of the game.

[kozac 10]

I went to a Devils game a couple of weeks ago when they played the Kings and some guy got up to go somewhere DURING A PENALTY SHOT in the second period. He was right in front of me when O'Sullivan started skating on goal, I told him "Man, Its a penalty shot!" he just looked at me with a dumb look on his face, I swear I almost pushed him out of the way...

I guess "when you gotta go, you gotta go" but seriously, he couldn't wait 20 seconds?

[Canadian_Yzerman_Fan 7]

I'm not one to say that what other people are doing at the games is wrong, but personally I don't understand it either.

I live a few hours away from JLA so the drive plus the costs tend to limit me to about one game a year... That said, when I go I try to take in every ounce of it and just enjoy the chance to be there in person. I always get there super early and hang around the glass in the wings end for the warm-ups, I try to stay in at my seat for the entire game (even intermissions if possible... just because it is so crazy), and no matter what the score is I'll never leave the game even a second early. The experience turns me into a kid and the whole thing is just so fun!

I think it's unfortunate that the majority of fans don't get that same feeling or experience out of it, and I'm sure it's because they get to go to games a lot more often. I just don't see the point in spending all that money to go if you're going to miss a lot of the game getting there late, trying to leave early, getting snacks, whatever...

I heard the same things that the wings said about the fans in sweden that wont leave their seats because they just dont want to miss a minute of the action and its for the same reason.. they never get to see the wings (or any NHL) play live. No matter where you are there are going to be lackluster fans, but I do think that there are a lot of cities that get more of the excited ones out than the wings do an a per game basis... but on the bright side, not having so many excited fans makes it easier for me to get to the glass during the pre-game stuff

[C-TownWing 0]

I'm not one to say that what other people are doing at the games is wrong, but personally I don't understand it either.

I live a few hours away from JLA so the drive plus the costs tend to limit me to about one game a year... That said, when I go I try to take in every ounce of it and just enjoy the chance to be there in person. I always get there super early and hang around the glass in the wings end for the warm-ups, I try to stay in at my seat for the entire game (even intermissions if possible... just because it is so crazy), and no matter what the score is I'll never leave the game even a second early. The experience turns me into a kid and the whole thing is just so fun!

I think it's unfortunate that the majority of fans don't get that same feeling or experience out of it, and I'm sure it's because they get to go to games a lot more often. I just don't see the point in spending all that money to go if you're going to miss a lot of the game getting there late, trying to leave early, getting snacks, whatever...

Great post...as someone who's in the same situation, that's exactly how I feel.

That said, I don't get the constant need to complain about it. Yeah, our JLA crowds leave a lot to be desired, but who freaking cares? I'm a fan of the team, not a fan of the fans. Why does it matter if our fans are "the best," or even "good" for that matter? As long as the franchise is sustainable and able to produce a successful product on the ice, I could give a damn about empty seats or people leaving early or a lack of noise.

I think it's pretty much complacency, not the economy or anything else. The "best" fans are the ones experiencing a first taste of success after years of futility. See Pittsburgh, Montreal (in a relative sense, it's all relative), Washington, San Jose (especially when they first got good)--or Detroit back in the mid-90s. Until we're in that boat again, we're not going to have great fans. But if the choice is to always be one of the best teams in the league or to suck for a few years just so we can have louder crowds, that's pretty much a no-brainer for me.