Kopecky

[hossa8109 0]

On the majority of these forums people seem to be bashing Kopecky quite hard. Now its starting to look like hes getting back to the form he had before his injury. Mind you, he did have 72 points in the AHL before he came up to the Wings which doesn't really fit the "grinder" status. Yes, he has been on the fourth line for one reason or another but can anyone really deny the fact that he would have more points on any of the other lines. I'm not sure at what point he started playing with some other line combinations but in his last 10 games he has 4 goals, 5 assists, and is a plus 3. The Wings are basically paying him the league minimum and he just turned 27. When Franzen (everyone is wild about) was the same age his totals were 12g and 4a for 16 points in 80 games. I hate using stats but there is some truth there and I guess I'm just not sure why everyone is bashing the kid so hard. I will admit there were times that I was questioning whether or not he had lost it but of late I'm starting to see his what he's capable of. Let's say the Wings keep him for less than a million, would you really be upset about that? I honestly would like to see him play with Lieno or Helm in the future and see what he has to offer. What do you guys think?

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

He's shown more production/results than last year, even with his injury which is a plus.

I know being on a 3rd/4th line isn't all about goals and putting up numbers, but whenever your 3rd/4th line can score every now and then, it is an added bonus. Yes, the Wings offense is pretty sickening, but I don't care how good your offense is, you are going to have nights every now and then when it'll go dry.

People seem to forget how much time it takes to come back from torn ACLs. Jiri Fischer struggled for a good while, pretty much all of the following season after the tear, after he blew his knee out before his career unfortunately was cut short by the other circumstance. Derian Hatcher blew his knee out here a few games in and wasn't the same when he came back. They take time to come back from. I'm no professional athlete and they'll recover faster obviously but I speak through some experience of blowing my ACL and MCL out playing pick-up basketball and having surgery on it about 5 years ago. It took a pretty long time for my knee to have any decent strength again after rehab, and I still limp or move slowly after a jog or a workout.

Could he be a bit more physical? Sure, but that comes with time coming off a major knee injury. Again, Fischer struggled after his knee injury and didn't seem to play as physical the following season.

Fans feel the need to have a whipping boy to illogically hate at times where they go from normal criticism to just going off the deep end ridiculously. For Wings fans if it's not the goalies, last year it was Samuelsson. This year it has usually been Kopecky.

[Zeta_40 0]

On the majority of these forums people seem to be bashing Kopecky quite hard. Now its starting to look like hes getting back to the form he had before his injury. Mind you, he did have 72 points in the AHL before he came up to the Wings which doesn't really fit the "grinder" status. Yes, he has been on the fourth line for one reason or another but can anyone really deny the fact that he would have more points on any of the other lines. I'm not sure at what point he started playing with some other line combinations but in his last 10 games he has 4 goals, 5 assists, and is a plus 3. The Wings are basically paying him the league minimum and he just turned 27. When Franzen (everyone is wild about) was the same age his totals were 12g and 4a for 16 points in 80 games. I hate using stats but there is some truth there and I guess I'm just not sure why everyone is bashing the kid so hard. I will admit there were times that I was questioning whether or not he had lost it but of late I'm starting to see his what he's capable of. Let's say the Wings keep him for less than a million, would you really be upset about that? I honestly would like to see him play with Lieno or Helm in the future and see what he has to offer. What do you guys think?

Yes, I agree Kopecky is doing good. Maybe he could turn out like Hudler who used to get around 20 points but now he has a possible 60 points coming.

[Mors 201]

If Kopecky picks up 100 points in his next 100 games, then maybe the comparison to Franzen will be legitimate (32 points in 170 games vs. 128 points in 279 games).

Kopecky isn't an "illogical whipping boy", he's not a good enough hockey player to play on the first or second lines, and he's not what's needed on the 3rd or 4th line. His hits are a joke and he got run over again yesterday.

2 weeks ago this thread would have been laughed off the forums. He picks up a few points and now he's just "coming to form". This is just another premature "I told you so" about Kopecky when he hasn't actually earned it just yet.

[edicius 3,269]

I've bashed Kopay in the past, but he's been doing better. Still makes some boneheaded moves, but his production has increased and that's a good thing. I'm wondering if he's been working with his pal Hossa a bit.

[hossa8109 0]

If Kopecky picks up 100 points in his next 100 games, then maybe the comparison to Franzen will be legitimate (32 points in 170 games vs. 128 points in 279 games).

Kopecky isn't an "illogical whipping boy", he's not a good enough hockey player to play on the first or second lines, and he's not what's needed on the 3rd or 4th line. His hits are a joke and he got run over again yesterday.

2 weeks ago this thread would have been laughed off the forums. He picks up a few points and now he's just "coming to form". This is just another premature "I told you so" about Kopecky when he hasn't actually earned it just yet.

^ doesn't understand Red Wings system ^

He was a good player before his injuries. You realize the AHL is a solid league and he put up 72 points right? Thats not a grinder, thats a scorer.

[uk_redwing 495]

Did someone just mention Kopecky and Fischer in the same breath? Please dont insult Jiri like that.

[clutchngrab 12]

My only issue with Kopecky is hitting. Last year he led the team in hits before the injury. The ocassional scoring is nice, but his role really is to use his body - especially now that maltby won't and Drake is gone.

[Carman 387]

He has 32 points in a 170 games. His hits a entertaining(Not in a good way) at best. His skating ability is suspect to say the least.

That said, he is showing improvement and hope he turns out to be a late bloomer. But I'm running out of room to coddle him. Also I understand the knee injuries and everything takes time to rehab, but I sincerely doubt the Wings of all teams would put someone on the ice that isn't at least playing 90%~ of their ability. He is a cheap 4th liner, I have no big complaints about him, other then he has played his majority on the 4th line that has been lacking to say the least. Not saying he is the problem with that line, but he certainly wasn't a saving grace either.

Fact is as long as people treat him as a 500k player and stop touting him as the next Franzen(LOL), I'll have no problem with him. I hope he continues his streak and continues to strengthen his skating and gains confidence, but I'm not holding my breath.

[j.hoop 64]

On the majority of these forums people seem to be bashing Kopecky quite hard. Now its starting to look like hes getting back to the form he had before his injury. Mind you, he did have 72 points in the AHL before he came up to the Wings which doesn't really fit the "grinder" status. Yes, he has been on the fourth line for one reason or another but can anyone really deny the fact that he would have more points on any of the other lines. I'm not sure at what point he started playing with some other line combinations but in his last 10 games he has 4 goals, 5 assists, and is a plus 3. The Wings are basically paying him the league minimum and he just turned 27. When Franzen (everyone is wild about) was the same age his totals were 12g and 4a for 16 points in 80 games. I hate using stats but there is some truth there and I guess I'm just not sure why everyone is bashing the kid so hard. I will admit there were times that I was questioning whether or not he had lost it but of late I'm starting to see his what he's capable of. Let's say the Wings keep him for less than a million, would you really be upset about that? I honestly would like to see him play with Lieno or Helm in the future and see what he has to offer. What do you guys think?

i hate how this thread comes about only after he starts performing. kopecky absolutely deserved the guff he was getting. he wasnt throwing around his weight, wasnt scoring or helping score, and in general was a off-beat player. i will give him props for his recent burst, and hopefully he is coming around, but his grief was not unfounded

[xBrave_Heartx 0]

Kopecky has been good for the past week or two.. before that he was a straight up bum..

Is he gaining confidence? yah, is he becoming a better player? yah.

But just because he turns it around, dont all you people get on your knees at once and start blowing the guy.. He still has marginal talent and skates like antropov's twin.

He's got alot of ways to go before he gets kudos from me.

[eva unit zero 271]

My only issue with Kopecky is hitting. Last year he led the team in hits before the injury. The ocassional scoring is nice, but his role really is to use his body - especially now that maltby won't and Drake is gone.

Ok, so now that he's second in hits on the team behind Brad Stuart (acquired at the trade deadline last year) he's not using his body at all? Your post makes TOTAL sense. He led Wings forwards in hitting last year. He leads Wings forwards in hitting this year. Seems like he's doing his job with respect to hitting. Let's take a look at hits last year vs this year for Kopay.

2007-08: 111 in 77.

2008-09: 96 in 66 (to date) which projects to 112 in 77.

As you can see, if Kopecky were to play 77 games this season hitting at the same rate he has been this year, he would end up with about the same number of hits as he did last year, when he was doing his job as a hitter just fine according to the way this thread, including yourself, was posting. How does the same performance suddenly go from "good" to "completely unacceptable" over the span of one offseason where the guy was recovering from knee surgery?

[Mors 201]

^ doesn't understand Red Wings system ^

He was a good player before his injuries. You realize the AHL is a solid league and he put up 72 points right? Thats not a grinder, thats a scorer.

I don't understand the Red Wings system because Kopecky hasn't done anything up until the most recent 5 or 6 games? He wasn't doing anything before he was injured either. If Kopecky isn't a grinder then he's in trouble, 'cause he's clearly not a scorer.

Like I said...another premature Kopecky thread. At least let him finish out the season strong before you start with the OMG I TOLD YOU SO.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Stats are what they are, stats. His hits arent hard, fierce, anything. He bumps into people and from time to time manages to stay on his feet. Like, Good for Kopecky proving he can do SOMETHING, but lets not overblow this please.

[Zata fan 40 6]

I'm not a Kopy fan, but Kopecky is not a "grinder" although his role on this team is just that. He does what he is told to keep his spot on this team,but he has a bit more skill than people give him credit for. He doesn't get a chance to show it usually do to him trying to be the physical force on this team which he obviously isn't the best at,but he is doing it regardless and with no complaints so I give him credit for that. His numbers reflect that and also given his linemates they don't expect him to put up much in those regards.

[hossa8109 0]

I'm not a Kopy fan, but Kopecky is not a "grinder" although his role on this team is just that. He does what he is told to keep his spot on this team,but he has a bit more skill than people give him credit for. He doesn't get a chance to show it usually do to him trying to be the physical force on this team which he obviously isn't the best at,but he is doing it regardless and with no complaints so I give him credit for that. His numbers reflect that and also given his linemates they don't expect him to put up much in those regards.

That was my point. I'm not sure people know the talent he actually has. Thats why I said I didn't know how he ended up in a checking role but thats how it happened.

Also, are people calling Franzen a good skater? Thats not an accurate statement at all.

[uk_redwing 495]

Let's take a look at hits last year vs this year for Kopay.

2007-08: 111 in 77.

2008-09: 96 in 66 (to date) which projects to 112 in 77.

As you can see, if Kopecky were to play 77 games this season hitting at the same rate he has been this year, he would end up with about the same number of hits as he did last year, when he was doing his job as a hitter just fine according to the way this thread, including yourself, was posting. How does the same performance suddenly go from "good" to "completely unacceptable" over the span of one offseason where the guy was recovering from knee surgery?

[skacore 2]

Ok, so now that he's second in hits on the team behind Brad Stuart (acquired at the trade deadline last year) he's not using his body at all? Your post makes TOTAL sense. He led Wings forwards in hitting last year. He leads Wings forwards in hitting this year. Seems like he's doing his job with respect to hitting. Let's take a look at hits last year vs this year for Kopay.

2007-08: 111 in 77.

2008-09: 96 in 66 (to date) which projects to 112 in 77.

As you can see, if Kopecky were to play 77 games this season hitting at the same rate he has been this year, he would end up with about the same number of hits as he did last year, when he was doing his job as a hitter just fine according to the way this thread, including yourself, was posting. How does the same performance suddenly go from "good" to "completely unacceptable" over the span of one offseason where the guy was recovering from knee surgery?

somehow ice time didnt factor it's way into your brilliant formula....unreal hahahah

[Guest CaliWingsNut]

Stats are a funny thing. It's often why I sit here and shake my head at eva's posts (but don't bother correcting).

Kopy's got 4G 5A +/-3 in 10 games

He's also 6G 13A +/-0 in 66 games (this year).

And... 12G 20A +/- 1 in 170 games (in his NHL career). hrm...

Yes they have been a good 10 games for him. It doesn't make him the next Franzen.

[adtthosa 5]

I give the guy a ton of credit, he has been one of our beter players in the past few weeks. All this time we wondered what Babcock saw in him and he's finally starting to show what he's capable of. He's earned himself a roster spot in the playoffs (if he wasn't already going to get one).

[eva unit zero 271]

Stats are what they are, stats. His hits arent hard, fierce, anything. He bumps into people and from time to time manages to stay on his feet. Like, Good for Kopecky proving he can do SOMETHING, but lets not overblow this please.

Yes...my point was that his stats were similar to last season. Most of the Kopecky bashers in this thread were acknowledging he had performed well physically with his frequency of hits last season. So what's the beef this year?

[Guest MrSandMan]

I was actually thinking about this today. With Kops and Flip on fire, who's going to be the next LGW's whipping boy? I was thinking LGW's would call out Hudler since he hasn't been "up to par"...

But my bet would be Sammy. Who knows/

Hopefully we have shutout and score 8+ goals tonight so LGW's doesn't implode or have another melt down.

Edited March 15, 2009 by MrSandMan

[miller76 463]

I was actually thinking about this today. With Kops and Flip on fire, who's going to be the next LGW's whipping boy? I was thinking LGW's would call out Hudler since he hasn't been "up to par"...

But my bet would be Sammy. Who knows/

Hey! We cant talk about this yet. This is a 5 star thread and topic to talk about in the Summer! lol. But I am thinking it will be the typical guys. Lebda, Sammy, ?, and ?

[Guest MrSandMan]

Hey! We cant talk about this yet. This is a 5 star thread and topic to talk about in the Summer! lol. But I am thinking it will be the typical guys. Lebda, Sammy, ?, and ?

Yeah, I actually didn't read the OP because 'usually' a thread with the "Kopecky" title is a complete disaster. I was just having a random thought about this today. I saw the name "Kopecky" and it trigger the thought again...

I hope Kops continues to prove the nay-sayers wrong.

Carry on

[Guest Crymson]

He has been playing well lately. I don't think that is disputable, and I don't see why some people have such a hard time admitting it.

Yes, I mean "admit," because that's what it seems to psychologically come to for some people.