Guest Shoreline Report post Posted April 1, 2009 Another note, he was praising Downey last year for sticking up for him and made some sort of statement referencing that there is a place for enforcers in the game, so was he BS'ing then? Link? I find it strange that he would praise enforcers on a clean check (by a douchebag) that had no penalty, suspension, or anything else. Downey's fight merely felt good for fans. Wish some people would actually admit it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Shoreline Report post Posted April 1, 2009 Here you go again talking about real fans and whiners and crap like that. Just because I want an enforcer on this team and will continue to want one doesn't mean I'm whining. I appreciate the regular season success, but I also realize that soft teams don't translate into playoff success. Somehow that makes me a whiner and you a real fan. Once again, you're engaging in self-aggrandizement, like many posters here unfortunately do. What you call self-aggrandizement, I call righteous arrogance. I can at least admit I was wrong. You cannot. What's the word for that? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GMRwings1983 8,804 Report post Posted April 1, 2009 Link? I find it strange that he would praise enforcers on a clean check (by a douchebag) that had no penalty, suspension, or anything else. Downey's fight merely felt good for fans. Wish some people would actually admit it. Right, I'm sure WIngs players didn't appreciate at all what Downey did? Lidstrom was probably mad at Downey for fighting a guy that he himself was planning on fighting the next time they played, as retribution. I'm sure Wings players appreciate Downey a lot more than what you're making it out to be. Come off it before you make any more bad posts in this thread. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GMRwings1983 8,804 Report post Posted April 1, 2009 What you call self-aggrandizement, I call righteous arrogance. I can at least admit I was wrong. You cannot. What's the word for that? How am I wrong? I'm saying that Lidstrom is not going to come on TV and say that this team needs more enforcers despite what the management and coaches think. That's just not his style, nor most athletes style. I'm not admitting my wrong in this opinion, because I'm not wrong. That's exactly the proper way to interpret Lidstrom's comments. You just read too much into what he said. If Lidstrom was Charles Barkley, then I'd think differently. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Shoreline Report post Posted April 1, 2009 Right, I'm sure WIngs players didn't appreciate at all what Downey did? Lidstrom was probably mad at Downey for fighting a guy that he himself was planning on fighting the next time they played, as retribution. I'm sure Wings players appreciate Downey a lot more than what you're making it out to be. Come off it before you make any more bad posts in this thread. You calling posts bad doesn't make it so. So I will continue. Right, I'm sure the Wings, being professionals, were all up in arms and steaming for Lappy's head on a platter with a clean check that has a % chance of hurting anyone. The only person I can conceive of that actually appreciated it most was Downey (being the one to punch Lappy's face in) and fans. Lidstrom was kind of off the ice when the fight happened, being injured and all. Really, the only thing that fight pointed to was entertainment value. How am I wrong? I'm saying that Lidstrom is not going to come on TV and say that this team needs more enforcers despite what the management and coaches think. That's just not his style, nor most athletes style. I'm not admitting my wrong in this opinion, because I'm not wrong. That's exactly the proper way to interpret Lidstrom's comments. You just read too much into what he said. If Lidstrom was Charles Barkley, then I'd think differently. Strange how you just conveniently ignored that the captain iterated that this team doesn't need an enforcer in all of that over-analysis of a rather simple explanation, which wouldn't be necessary if you weren't so full of s***. You'll have to teach me this art of bulls***ting myself, because it's actually pretty funny that even in overwhelming evidence that you're wrong, you're still trying to convince yourself you aren't. Please, go ahead. By the way, in these 4 cups, the Wings were never the #2 seed. They can only win when they are the #1 or #3 seed. Therefore they are doomed unless they can either catch San Jose or defy mathematics and be passed up by Vancouver. (<- to ManLuv4Clears) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lets go pavel 2 Report post Posted April 1, 2009 Link? I find it strange that he would praise enforcers on a clean check (by a douchebag) that had no penalty, suspension, or anything else. Downey's fight merely felt good for fans. Wish some people would actually admit it. link “All of us in here appreciate what he does, for looking after our backs,†captain Nicklas Lidstrom said. “What he brings to the table, almost no one in this locker room can do, and that’s why he is so important to our team. He’s got to be ready every night for what he’s doing. He should get a lot of credit for what he’s doing.†Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ManLuv4Clears 7 Report post Posted April 1, 2009 Link? I find it strange that he would praise enforcers on a clean check (by a douchebag) that had no penalty, suspension, or anything else. Downey's fight merely felt good for fans. Wish some people would actually admit it. The fans and Draper, but he's full of s***: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ManLuv4Clears 7 Report post Posted April 1, 2009 Well, personally, I measure success by playoff performance and that Stanley Steamer Cup thing, and unless you're counting Mac and his couple of appearances last playoffs... well, we've still got him and/or Downey available if we need him, but given even Mac's very limited game time last playoffs, I don't expect we'll see anything more than that. Thank you sir for a good honest answer without causing more confrontation. However we can agree to disagree, the player I think that this team is missing more that Mac or Downey is Drake. I don't think either one will crack the lineup in the playoffs and that's the way it's supposed to be; however the presence, or lack there of in the case of an energy guy like Drake will become apparent in the playoffs when time and time again you see heart and effort win over skill. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Shoreline Report post Posted April 1, 2009 link “All of us in here appreciate what he does, for looking after our backs,†captain Nicklas Lidstrom said. “What he brings to the table, almost no one in this locker room can do, and that’s why he is so important to our team. He’s got to be ready every night for what he’s doing. He should get a lot of credit for what he’s doing.†I absolutely agree here, and there's no doubt the physical presence of Downey was useful in it's own right (in fact that season the Wings played with a more physical edge, one type in the season, another type in the playoffs) during the regular season, but the article explains how his energy and work ethic is useful and comes off as positive to the team (I'm sure it would be no other way.. if he wasn't so positive in the locker room and got along with teammates he'd be gone, obviously), not how him kicking ass and being an enforcer is so great to the team or helped them win a cup. In this case, Lidstrom outright suggests that the team doesn't need an enforcer, and he is absolutely right because this team is playing at the same level as last year, winning around the same amount of games, despite there being no enforcer. But don't tell that to GMR, who declares this team can't win without one (strangely this team hasn't been trainwrecked to hell while more cheap s*** happened when there WAS an enforcer on the team), just like people declare that this team can't win without a top GAA, despite them doing just the opposite. Some fans need to come to grasp with reality and quit their bitching. All that blahblah aside, Lidstrom is absolutely right, and people like GMR are whining about nothing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lets go pavel 2 Report post Posted April 1, 2009 I absolutely agree here, and there's no doubt the physical presence of Downey was useful in it's own right (in fact that season the Wings played with a more physical edge, one type in the season, another type in the playoffs) during the regular season, but the article explains how his energy and work ethic is useful and comes off as positive to the team (I'm sure it would be no other way.. if he wasn't so positive in the locker room and got along with teammates he'd be gone, obviously), not how him kicking ass and being an enforcer is so great to the team or helped them win a cup. In this case, Lidstrom outright suggests that the team doesn't need an enforcer, and he is absolutely right because this team is playing at the same level as last year, winning around the same amount of games, despite there being no enforcer. But don't tell that to GMR, who declares this team can't win without one (strangely this team hasn't been trainwrecked to hell while more cheap s*** happened when there WAS an enforcer on the team), just like people declare that this team can't win without a top GAA, despite them doing just the opposite. Some fans need to come to grasp with reality and quit their bitching. All that blahblah aside, Lidstrom is absolutely right, and people like GMR are whining about nothing. I haven't read every post GMR has made, but I'm pretty sure what he's talking about is winning the Cup, not just having a winning season. If you look back at the seasons when we've won (not to mention other cup-winning teams), we've had a good bit more grit/enforcer than what we have now. It remains to be seen whether this season will be as successful as last. Yes, Lidstrom does explicitly say they don't "need" an enforcer, but it doesn't mean he wouldn't rather have one, and it doesn't mean he doesn't think the Wings would be better with one. Really, when asked about having enforcer, and given that the team clearly doesn't, would you really expect him to say "Gee whiz, Jim, I know Kenny doesn't like fighters, but frankly he's a dumbass, I'd really rather drop a loser like Maltby or Kopecky and bring up a good old s***-kicker or two"? Obviously an exaggeration, but you get the idea. If Lidstrom thinks differently than Holland he'll express that to Holland in private, he isn't going to start second-guessing his GM on Rome is Burning. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Broken 16 381 Report post Posted April 1, 2009 Wow... I've never seen so much scrutiny over the usual canned responses that every single Red Wing is instructed to give. Imagine if Lidstrom actually spoke candidly... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Shoreline Report post Posted April 1, 2009 (edited) I haven't read every post GMR has made, but I'm pretty sure what he's talking about is winning the Cup, not just having a winning season. If you look back at the seasons when we've won (not to mention other cup-winning teams), we've had a good bit more grit/enforcer than what we have now. It remains to be seen whether this season will be as successful as last. Yes, Lidstrom does explicitly say they don't "need" an enforcer, but it doesn't mean he wouldn't rather have one, and it doesn't mean he doesn't think the Wings would be better with one. Really, when asked about having enforcer, and given that the team clearly doesn't, would you really expect him to say "Gee whiz, Jim, I know Kenny doesn't like fighters, but frankly he's a dumbass, I'd really rather drop a loser like Maltby or Kopecky and bring up a good old s***-kicker or two"? Obviously an exaggeration, but you get the idea. If Lidstrom thinks differently than Holland he'll express that to Holland in private, he isn't going to start second-guessing his GM on Rome is Burning. I didn't mention playoffs because it's a given that enforcers only use is during the regular season. Drake and Downey had different styles. Drakes would have been useful this season and in the playoffs, Downey's has been deemed not terribly needed, despite his stints of success in a couple games. Now, if we're talking about a well rounded, physical, bang-them-up (without taking dumb penalties), have lots of energy, and more importantly than all of that, put points up on the scoreboard, I've never at all criticized that. In fact, physical play is partly what gave the Wings their (attitude) edge in the playoffs last season, but that was also all around, the entire team, not just one specific role player like Downey (and I don't need to remind you of his use in the playoffs). Now, Lidstrom isn't going to go out and suggest his GM is retarded, but he is allowed to have an original opinion, which is also allowed to change from season to season. That shift is called being realistic. Let's help GMR learn that bit since he's harping about enforcers when this team is not only doing fine without one, but their problems they DO have aren't even related at all to enforcement. Edited April 1, 2009 by Shoreline Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lets go pavel 2 Report post Posted April 1, 2009 I didn't mention playoffs because it's a given that enforcers only use is during the regular season. Drake and Downey had different styles. Drakes would have been useful this season and in the playoffs, Downey's has been deemed not terribly needed, despite his stints of success in a couple games. Now, if we're talking about a well rounded, physical, bang-them-up (without taking dumb penalties), have lots of energy, and more importantly than all of that, put points up on the scoreboard, I've never at all criticized that. In fact, physical play is partly what gave the Wings their (attitude) edge in the playoffs last season, but that was also all around, the entire team, not just one specific role player like Downey (who I don't need to remind you of his use in the playoffs). Now, Lidstrom isn't going to go out and suggest his GM is retarded, but he is allowed to have an original opinion, which is also allowed to change from season to season. That shift is called being realistic. Let's help GMR learn that bit since he's harping about enforcers when this team is not only doing fine without one, but their problems they DO have aren't even related at all to enforcement. This is quickly turning into "Downey Makes Detroit a Better Team p2" I would disagree that Downey's lack of playing time this year stems from someone deciding that his contributions aren't useful, I think that has more to do with the cap space and the logjam of players already on the roster. However, neither of us can really know, so that's all pretty much speculation. I agree completely with the middle paragraph, but I would also argue that having a guy who's willing to drop the gloves facilitates that. The team is more likely to play tougher when they know they have a guy who will stand up for them if the other team takes the physicality to another level. Don't forget, while Downey didn't play in the playoffs last year, both Drake and McCarty saw ice time, and McCarty particularly was pretty much filling the same role that Downey filled. As for the last part, I'm sure Lidstrom has his own opinion, and sure it can change from year to year, but whether we actually heard his honest sentiment is debatable. When we have an enforcer he likes them, when we don't have one he's okay then too ... to me that sounds like a guy who isn't going to call out his GM on national TV. I'm not saying that that means he's lying about his feelings, just that I wouldn't take this instance to mean Nick Lidstrom no longer values or wants a guy like Downey on his team. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AtomicPunk 296 Report post Posted April 1, 2009 Why does every F'ing thread on here turn into an enforcer thread? There, I said it. Especially when the Captain of the Detroit Red Wings just said in the interview on TV that THEY DIDN'T NEED ONE. The Red Wing philosophy is to "punish them with the power play". Period. (Oh, wait, that's right, he's LYING....toeing the company line...I forgot) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GMRwings1983 8,804 Report post Posted April 1, 2009 I didn't mention playoffs because it's a given that enforcers only use is during the regular season. Drake and Downey had different styles. Drakes would have been useful this season and in the playoffs, Downey's has been deemed not terribly needed, despite his stints of success in a couple games. Now, if we're talking about a well rounded, physical, bang-them-up (without taking dumb penalties), have lots of energy, and more importantly than all of that, put points up on the scoreboard, I've never at all criticized that. In fact, physical play is partly what gave the Wings their (attitude) edge in the playoffs last season, but that was also all around, the entire team, not just one specific role player like Downey (and I don't need to remind you of his use in the playoffs). Now, Lidstrom isn't going to go out and suggest his GM is retarded, but he is allowed to have an original opinion, which is also allowed to change from season to season. That shift is called being realistic. Let's help GMR learn that bit since he's harping about enforcers when this team is not only doing fine without one, but their problems they DO have aren't even related at all to enforcement. Man, you are pathetic. I've already explained to you why Lidstrom said what he said, and you pretty much admitted it in the bolded part. He's not going to blatantly disagree with the management. Yet you still feel the need to call me out to every other poster, making stupid incorrect comments in the process. And I've already said that we're doing fine in the regular seasons without enforcers. I've never said otherwise. Since you don't have any arguments here, I think you're just going after me for the sake of going after me due to my opinon on enforcers, which is obviously different than yours. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HOCKEY MATTERS 167 Report post Posted April 1, 2009 It baffles the hell out of me that every fricckin thread on this board turns into a Downey/enforcer thread or a goalie thread. On top of that it's the same people hashing over the exact same ground. Amazing. Carry on. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Electrophile 3,554 Report post Posted April 1, 2009 It's a lot like the people who've trashed Osgood all season long. If they don't have their Wings they way they want them, even if they're winning, even if they are at the same point as they were last season, having the same chance to win the cup, they whine. This team has a good handful of spoiled and unappreciative fans, that's for sure. Instant gratification. I know what I want, and I want it now. Think Veruca Salt in Willy Wonka. If this team was the 5th or 6th seed, I could completely understand the anger, and the whining and the bitterness and the resentment and the drama that happens around here. After winning the Cup last year, to end up that low would be a complete and utter disappointment. But we're #2, and a close #2 at that. It hardly warrants it. But let them kvetch. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SiLkK19 67 Report post Posted April 2, 2009 (edited) Edited April 2, 2009 by SiLkK19 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Shoreline Report post Posted April 2, 2009 (edited) Told you so. Lids absolutely hates enforcers. He flat out says it in this interview! Edited April 2, 2009 by Shoreline Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjlegend 155 Report post Posted April 2, 2009 Let me hijack this thread. I think Osgood is having the best year of his career, and you all are too blind to see it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SiLkK19 67 Report post Posted April 2, 2009 Told you so. Lids absolutely hates enforcers. He flat out says it in this interview! I couldn't believe it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Electrophile 3,554 Report post Posted April 2, 2009 (edited) My favorite part of the interview was when Nick told San Jose fans to suck it. Edited April 2, 2009 by Electrophile Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jedi 1,865 Report post Posted April 2, 2009 Ok folks. Let's just take this opportunity to steer this good ship thread back on it's original course. As mentioned above, the thread has become the "Downey" thread v2.0 when v1.0 is still going strong. Let's keep this thread dedicated towards discussing the interview itself. Enforcer discussions are still going strong in the Downey thread. Thanks! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HadThomasVokounOnFortSt 878 Report post Posted April 2, 2009 Lidstrom actually made me sit there and watch Jim Rome. I really like this interview lots, but when he said he hates enforcer that made me think. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Opie 308 Report post Posted April 2, 2009 OK so why is it that you can find every other friggin' episode of Rome is burning on ESPN.com but you cannot find the Lids one, maybe it takes a day or two to get it up there! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites